Help a noob with collett

[PerkyAntihero]

Hey friends!

Good news,, my girlfriend saw Collette crew, and decided to play Mqlifaux because of the showgirl/magician vibe. Bad news is that although I've played other wargames (but none with real objective based victory) she never has and Collette just doesnt have a simple crew (I only have Sonnia for her to play against.)

Could some of you with experience please help me with advice in guiding her how to maximize Collette's strengths against a crew thats just trying to make her crew dead as fast as possible and from as far away as possible? She has everything in keyword at her disposal.

 

Also quick rider question, I may have just missed it in the rules on burying, but what happens if Collette buries through the end phase while on fire?

 

Thanks in advance!

[touchdown]

Well if she's getting blasted off the board, the first two things I'd say are make sure you're playing with enough terrain. Performer is very fast so spend those extra moves making sure you have cover/concealment/broken LOS. Secondly, I'd grab the Captain. Use Middle of the Storm and Wind Barrier to keep an important model or 2 safe (slightly double edged sword here since you are setting yourself up being blasted by bubbling up, but should only be taking 1 damage thanks to Middle of the Storm).

Then the always generic advice for new players, start off focusing on scoring points. Read the schemes and strats carefully and with each activation think to yourself "does this help me score points" or "is this setting me up to score points later".

Performer is very strong but you'll win games while getting tabled and it's hard to get used to.

I'd also consider bringing a lot of soul stones and maybe some SS Miners. Until she gets a feel for the crew and game, they'll give a buffer for making mistakes so you can at least keep doing things and keep your models on the table and figure out how things work even if you're losing because your opponent has more/stronger models. You may even want to consider a handicap for a few games like play with 45 stones to her 50.

Re: buried and burning. You still take burning damage like normal when buried.

[Adran]

One of the important things to remember is that VPs win games in malifaux, not kills or model counts. You can easily look at the situation on the table and think you're in trouble, but a look at the VPs may tell a different story. I've won games where I have had every model on my side killed, and my opponent  still had a full crew because I scored VPs rather than focussed on killing my opponent.

Don't get discouraged because everything is dying.

The Performer crew is an odd one to play in that it doesn't really deal damage. They probably aren't the first choice in a reckoning game (although they aren't automatically going to lose it).

The strengths are mobility and interacting power. You need to make sure that you have picked schemes you can do. I would probably learn the game making a lot of use of the duet and things like manniquins to protect more important things. Pick your fights. Its not a problem to lose models, as long as doing so cost your opponent in time and other opportunities. Distracted can really annoy the opponent as it makes actions spent with it much less effective.  Its also very hard to stop them putting scheme markers where they want.

Try and not get caught in a big fight (at least while you're learning), but rather spread out and score. (that's not to say they never want to be in a big fight, but generally they want to pick their engagements with care).

Have fun, and don't get discouraged by losing. Chat with your opponents about what went wrong and what went well.

[dancater]

There is a good, if a little dated, Schemes & Stones podcast discussing Colette, this is a good resource.

Also Vangerdehast has a forum thread titled the Colette 3E Tactica which is still easily located although it is not pinned yet. This also contains advice.

In my experience Colette is a master that rewards practice and punishes impatience and frustration. If you have the inclination you could set up 'mini' scenarios, starting with one or two Showgirls models (such as Colette) and some combination of Sonnia are proxie'd models, Put them on a small table, mark there placement and run through a two activation each rotation of activation's multiple times experimenting with different things each time (use a small deck of even select cards in each action and look at the results), do this with the key models one each day over several days, looking at what they can do, where they can reach, how they do certain tasks, defend themselves and interact with other models. Get to know the Showgirl cards that way, exploring say Colette, the add Angelica, then maybe the Duet or Cassandra, slowly build up in a non-game simply experimenting fashion.

Colette is for me a support master, she is able to absorb an awful lot of enemy attention (but she's not a tank and if they nullify triggers you must avoid fighting) not by taking damage but by avoiding it but making herself to much of a nuisance to ignore.  She is fast, manoeuvrable and thus an excellent scheme runner, task achiever, this is not the best use of her in every round, but she'll get you those critical points at critical times. She does surprising damage if utilised properly, she can kill most small-med range models and coup de grace bigger models, so while not a killer she can be a finisher.

Her crew is generally channelled towards fast and attacking you at angles, you cannot telegraph your goals, until late, you want your opponent to move where you aren't and then waste time trying to get to where you were, while you leave to achieve your next task. They do not want to get involved in brawls, they thrive in completing schemes and forcing an opponent to spread out and chase them to prevent this.

In Showgirls Angelica is amazing, she is support but has excellent value. Not a killing model.

The Coryphee and the Coryphee Duet are exceptionally fast, can be very hard to kill (again like Colette not conventionally tough, beware of anti-armour in particular) and they can do solid damage, I have the best luck murdering med range models, clearing those crux pieces from a enemy crew while kiting the beaters around taking small damage and moving away forcing them to chase.

Cassandra is basically a mini-Colette, easier to kill but can mix it up more with traditional damage, fast and like the Coryphee Duet an excellent scalpel.

Carlos messes with burning, he can stack damage you don't expect and is perhaps the most conventional (for this crew) tank model.

The Mannequins are miniature tanks and Showgirl protection pieces.

The Performers and Ice Dancers are shifty, fast scheme runners and irritants (in both cases, at best you probably should only take one and likely a Performer, they do well what this crew does well, more than one or two is overkill for what you can already do and leaves you a surfeit of what the crew needs in versatility).

Arcanists have some exceptional Versatile model choices, if you don't have a Mech Rider, some Mechanical Swarms and a Soulstone Miner at least then this will make maximising her crew harder. Someone also mentioned the Captain, and against Sonnia I can see why he'd be an alright choice. 

Don't be shy of using proxy models and token stand ins to experiment with some models. 

You need to focus on winning through Schemes and Strats. Play a game where you can't 'kill' models with scheming as the only victory path as a method of adjusting to the mindset of manoeuvre and misdirection over the conventional 'war' game mindset of advance and slaughter. 

Honestly Malifaux is one of the most nuanced and outside the box tabletop miniatures games and Colette is a tough master to play in this already tough game, folks will tell you it takes dozens of games to explore her. Play for fun, for a half dozen games, experimenting and trialing the scheme/strat combos.  

    

[Vangerdahast]

Great advices here.

I will just add some thoughts about Colette herself.

She is the one that will win you games more often than not. All her actions can be used to deny points to your opponent, especially in Turn 5. At that point, you generally know what your opponent is trying to score. Play Colette as late as possible and wreck your opponent's plans. There are huge possibilities with her actions to deny (and also score) points. Try to think about all you can do (don't underestimate False Reality for example).

I generally use Sword Trick in Turn 4 to hit the  Twist Ending Trigger and Bury Colette (spare a high card and a Soulstone if necessary). In Turn 5, activate her last. I generally let my opponent begin the turn even if I win initiative. By activating Colette last, your opponent has no way to counter her actions as all his models are already activated. If you have Scheme Markers or friendly models left, you should be able to unbury her exactly where you need. Her last activation will then be used to score or deny points and give you a win. Just some Walk and Interact Actions (so no card draw and no Black Joker involved) can be enough to change the course of the game.

Colette and Performers are a tricky Keyword but keep in mind that it is even trickier for your opponent to figure out what you want to achieve (and how you will achieve that). Playing Colette involves some mind games with your opponent. It can take some games to understand how she works but  when you will be at ease with her, you will see how she plays the game by her own rules.

She is a tricky Master but is such rewarding once you  unlock all her power.

 

[korgal]

Vangerdahast is a great example !

In our group of players, he is the most formidable opponent with the Colette team. His opinions are very good and I advise you to try to apply them.

Good game for you !  

[PerkyAntihero]

Hey , Friends! Sorry I haven't replied to each of you to say thanks as you gave advice, but real life has been brutal this week. I really appreciate all of you taking the time to let me know how to work through Collette. We'll be playing this weekend, and ill take the more killey stats and schemes out and help her really understand how her model interactions work with the victory conditions. And activation order. 

[Ogid]

On 7/30/2020 at 2:39 AM, PerkyAntihero said:

We'll be playing this weekend, and ill take the more killey stats and schemes out and help her really understand how her model interactions work with the victory conditions. And activation order.

Not sure if you have already play, but cherrypicking the more killey strats and schemes isn't a good plan imo. Colette is very speciallized in basically running around scoring while controling the enemy crew; a pool full of strats and schemes asking for kills will be a very uphill game for her, specially if her OOK and versatile options are limited; she won't have any easy way to score.

In fact I'd advise to collect a second ARC master able to do well in those kind of pools.

[Berion]

I will use this topic to ask a question an also to get advise about what a veteran player should do... last Friday I played a game with the Public Enemies strategy and I choose Colette just because I want to practice more with her and all Performers but, in a real tournament, will Colette be a real option or will you directly discard it and use other masters as Toni or Mei?

[Vangerdahast]

I play mainly Colette and use her in any given pool but Public Ennemies is by far the worst Strategy for her (more than Reckoning in Season 0).

The main problem is not killing ennemy. You can do it by selecting wisely your targets.

The problem is to keep you Bounty Tokens holder alive until the end of turn.

The best way would be to soften your ennemies with other models and let Colette deliver the final blow with Sword Trick and hit the Trigger to Bury Colette so that you can keep your Bounty Tokens safe. If other models like, for example,Cassandra or Angelica, make the kill your opponent will beat them to death before the end of turn. Performers are fragile (with the exception of Colette and the Duet).

I think that you need to go OOK for this Strategy. A full Performer Crew is far too fragile for this one. And even with OOK models, Colette will struggle more thant other Arcanist Masters like Toni.

Public Ennemies is doable by Colette but it will be very tough games. It also depends on Schemes. If Schemes are movement-related, Colette can be a good choice. If the Scheme pool is also all about killing as the Strategy, I think, it is better to choose another Master.

In a tournament, if Schemes are movement-based and knowing that the game can stop at turn 3 or 4 (end of time), I will choose Colette. Not playing the 5 turns can allow you to score one Strategy point or two  and focus on your Schemes and spreading your models. The opponent will be obliged to chase your speedy models (more difficult to score the Strategy for him especially if he has a melee-oriented crew) or he will score the Strategy but he won't have enough actions left for his Schemes.

In a pool where the Schemes are also about killing, I will take another Master.

 

[dannydb]

4 minutes ago, Vangerdahast said:

I play mainly Colette and use her in any given pool but Public Ennemies is by far the worst Strategy for her (more than Reckoning in Season 0).

The main problem is not killing ennemy. You can do it by selecting wisely your targets.

The problem is to keep you Bounty Tokens holder alive until the end of turn.

The best way would be to soften your ennemies with other models and let Colette deliver the final blow with Sword Trick and hit the Trigger to Bury Colette so that you can keep your Bounty Tokens safe. If other models like, for example,Cassandra or Angelica, make the kill your opponent will beat them to death before the end of turn. Performers are fragile (with the exception of Colette and the Duet).

I think that you need to go OOK for this Strategy. A full Performer Crew is far too fragile for this one. And even with OOK models, Colette will struggle more thant other Arcanist Masters like Toni.

Public Ennemies is doable by Colette but it will be very tough games. It also depends on Schemes. If Schemes are movement-related, Colette can be a good choice. If the Scheme pool is also all about killing as the Strategy, I think, it is better to choose another Master.

In a tournament, if Schemes are movement-based and knowing that the game can stop at turn 3 or 4 (end of time), I will choose Colette. Not playing the 5 turns can allow you to score one Strategy point or two  and focus on your Schemes and spreading your models. The opponent will be obliged to chase your speedy models (more difficult to score the Strategy for him especially if he has a melee-oriented crew) or he will score the Strategy but he won't have enough actions left for his Schemes.

In a pool where the Schemes are also about killing, I will take another Master.

 

public enermies is discard bounty points from models in play. does colette count as "in play" if she's buried

[Vangerdahast]

 

Buried models are still in play, Page 33 of the PDF rulebook, first paragraph: "Some effects Bury a model. Buried models are removed from the table, though they are still considered to be in play. While Buried models still Activate, they cannot take Actions."

[Berion]

Thank you for this detailed explanation, I also thought that was a very bad strategy for this keyword but as it was a “demo” play I played with it. 

Thank you for the tips!!!

[PerkyAntihero]

Hello, all!

Just wanted to say thanks for the help. As an update, my gf has been haunting this forum since I opened it, and reading all the grrat advice you guys gave. We played a game yesterday, (removing assassinate, and reckoning from the possible pool of victory conditions) and it was a tight game the whole way through. This game was the most fun she's had with malifaux  yet because she felt that even though her pieces were dying, that it was with intent.

[Ogid]

6 minutes ago, PerkyAntihero said:

Hello, all!

Just wanted to say thanks for the help. As an update, my gf has been haunting this forum since I opened it, and reading all the grrat advice you guys gave. We played a game yesterday, (removing assassinate, and reckoning from the possible pool of victory conditions) and it was a tight game the whole way through. This game was the most fun she's had with malifaux  yet because she felt that even though her pieces were dying, that it was with intent.

That's good to know! More players and good games is what we need

I guess you already tackled it, but in case not, @Vangerdahast in deep tactica and this other thread may be very useful for her as it focused in the main playstile of that crew; peeking also into other playstiles thanks in part to this hyperagressive NVB player :P; but I'd recommend you to focus in her main playstile first.

Other 2 resources if you are into whatching other people play are these 2 Vassal games from the recent VWC; Plaag really knows what he is doing with Colette so those games can really help you to understand Colette potential (and also how some versatiles integrates in the crew):

 

 

 

[Adran]

 

12 minutes ago, PerkyAntihero said:

Hello, all!

Just wanted to say thanks for the help. As an update, my gf has been haunting this forum since I opened it, and reading all the grrat advice you guys gave. We played a game yesterday, (removing assassinate, and reckoning from the possible pool of victory conditions) and it was a tight game the whole way through. This game was the most fun she's had with malifaux  yet because she felt that even though her pieces were dying, that it was with intent.

Excellent, Its good to hear that she enjoyed it. Having Assassinate as a scheme in the pool isn't to bad, although its rare Colette wants to pick it, its also rare that you would want to pick it against Colette.  Learning to accept the death of your models for the greater good of your score is an important Malifaux skill I think. (Or is that just my excuse for losing my crew so fast...)

 

On ‎8‎/‎2‎/‎2020 at 9:59 AM, Berion said:

I will use this topic to ask a question an also to get advise about what a veteran player should do... last Friday I played a game with the Public Enemies strategy and I choose Colette just because I want to practice more with her and all Performers but, in a real tournament, will Colette be a real option or will you directly discard it and use other masters as Toni or Mei?

Just echoing the other advise here, its not her best strategy, but you can play her into it if the schemes can support her crew. But you do need to get your head around her denial because you are not very likely to get all 4 points for public enemies, so you need to also make sure your opponent  doesn't get that many points.  So I wouldn't automatically rule her out, but if I'm playing the whole faction at an event, she probably isn't making this game.

 

[Vangerdahast]

10 hours ago, PerkyAntihero said:

Hello, all!

Just wanted to say thanks for the help. As an update, my gf has been haunting this forum since I opened it, and reading all the grrat advice you guys gave. We played a game yesterday, (removing assassinate, and reckoning from the possible pool of victory conditions) and it was a tight game the whole way through. This game was the most fun she's had with malifaux  yet because she felt that even though her pieces were dying, that it was with intent.

 

Glad we have helped you!

And it seems that your girlfriend has already a good understanding of the Performer Keyword. Knowing that losing models is not a fatality as long as you score points is a good start.

After a few more games, Colette should become your nightmare (as for my group of players).

 

[PerkyAntihero]

Hey all, one more question that came up in our game and I forgot to ask about. Since the performers can Walk out of engagement, does that negate the free attack that reduces the disengage push distance that would usually be granted by taking the disengage action?

[Dark Reaper]

Yeah, there is no disengage at all. You just walk out of combat. 

[Berion]

9 hours ago, Adran said:

 

Just echoing the other advise here, its not her best strategy, but you can play her into it if the schemes can support her crew. But you do need to get your head around her denial because you are not very likely to get all 4 points for public enemies, so you need to also make sure your opponent  doesn't get that many points.  So I wouldn't automatically rule her out, but if I'm playing the whole faction at an event, she probably isn't making this game.

 

Absolutely agree, even can be a good strategy because in general it’s not the expected master by the enemy, but for a noob like me maybe is too difficult right now :P. I think next time I will try Mei Feng to learn also about her

[PerkyAntihero]

Thats what I thought but didn't want to end up accidentally teaching her to play wrong.  Thank you all for being so generous with your time.

[Plaag]

On 8/2/2020 at 11:21 AM, Vangerdahast said:

I play mainly Colette and use her in any given pool but Public Ennemies is by far the worst Strategy for her (more than Reckoning in Season 0).

The main problem is not killing ennemy. You can do it by selecting wisely your targets.

The problem is to keep you Bounty Tokens holder alive until the end of turn.

The best way would be to soften your ennemies with other models and let Colette deliver the final blow with Sword Trick and hit the Trigger to Bury Colette so that you can keep your Bounty Tokens safe. If other models like, for example,Cassandra or Angelica, make the kill your opponent will beat them to death before the end of turn. Performers are fragile (with the exception of Colette and the Duet).

I think that you need to go OOK for this Strategy. A full Performer Crew is far too fragile for this one. And even with OOK models, Colette will struggle more thant other Arcanist Masters like Toni.

Public Ennemies is doable by Colette but it will be very tough games. It also depends on Schemes. If Schemes are movement-related, Colette can be a good choice. If the Scheme pool is also all about killing as the Strategy, I think, it is better to choose another Master.

In a tournament, if Schemes are movement-based and knowing that the game can stop at turn 3 or 4 (end of time), I will choose Colette. Not playing the 5 turns can allow you to score one Strategy point or two  and focus on your Schemes and spreading your models. The opponent will be obliged to chase your speedy models (more difficult to score the Strategy for him especially if he has a melee-oriented crew) or he will score the Strategy but he won't have enough actions left for his Schemes.

In a pool where the Schemes are also about killing, I will take another Master.

 

colette is the most powerful master in 3e and she can score everything including killing strats, it is so easy

[korgal]

On 8/7/2020 at 8:38 AM, Plaag said:

colette is the most powerful master in 3e and she can score everything including killing strats, it is so easy

Can you expand please?
Did you play a lot of games with Colette?
I played a lot of games against Colette and the switch to v3 with the gg0 was very favorable for Colette. But the gg1 has rebalanced that.

[Plaag]

3 hours ago, korgal said:

Can you expand please?
Did you play a lot of games with Colette?
I played a lot of games against Colette and the switch to v3 with the gg0 was very favorable for Colette. But the gg1 has rebalanced that.

what should i explain?) she kills, scores, do everything she wants and opponent just dont know what to do

[Ogid]

38 minutes ago, Plaag said:

what should i explain?) she kills, scores, do everything she wants and opponent just dont know what to do

She is definitelly top tier, but not sure if I'd go all the way to the most powerful one.

A mistake I've seen some players doing that make her even better is attacking her with Df attacks for no reason; that's one of the worst things a player can do versus her. That's damage not going towards her crew, a free bury for her (she will use her df trigger and a stone, so she will reduce from 3 to 5 damage) and later she will use Showstopper and appear where she may disrupt more the other crew/score; it's way better make her bury herself with Twist Ending; she most likely will have to stonne for that and the other player has a chance to stop it winning the duel.

Unless the attack has really crippling effects like Stunned+Slow or you can deny her trigger (like Thunders with Masked Agent, , shockwaves or for example Misaki able to stun her without attacking her), you should just leave her alone or just engage her without attacking.