Jump to content

Let's get Presidential (Ironsides/M&SU Tactica)


Recommended Posts

So! Now that I've got that list all done only took 7 months Let's talk about Deployment, Strategies, and Schemes:

DEPLOYMENT

Standard - It's ok. Plenty doable. The ability to spread out somewhat hinders you in that your opponent has more room to shotgun models to get past you. For Turf you'll be fine sending a runner or two to flip before returning to the bubble. Reckoning is still great since they have to come to you. Idols do well if you 'Own' two thirds of the centerline and direct idol placement. Plant...well...punch through, deny, and win on schemes.

Corner - Not if you can help it. Corner is 'OK' in Reckoning and possibly Turf War, but overall you're bubble is moving too slow to start threatening scoring at a reasonable time. The nice thing is you don't have to worry about is any real splitting or positioning, but any bottlenecks in your deployment are going to make things exponentially worse. Idols and Plant are terrible with your mobility.

Outflank - Good? while the larger centerline is not ideal, you're surprisingly close to your opponent at the outset. Don't be afraid to ball up on one end as long as you don't have to guard the other side (Reckoning or Idols). Here a big fast meanie works really well as a decent threat on the other side. For turf, flip the closest with chaff like mouse, pick a side and guard the marker on the centerline. try to bring the fight to the center. Plant is a bit easier since you don't have to run as far to cross the center.

Wedge - Hell yes. this lets you ball up and forces your opponent to do the same if they want to cross as efficiently as possible. It also puts you pretty darn close. Cross with Toni on turn 1 if you can. Turf still needs a goalie and cheaper stuff to flip marker on your side (Mouse, Miner, Other Miner, Steam Arachnids). Plant should shoot for placing on turn one in the middle (fite me!!). Idols are the same as standard, but definitely go for owning the very center (everything but Crows placement should be under your watch). Reckoning is still your bread and butter.

STRATEGIES

Reckoning - This is arguably the best strategy for Ironsides. She doesn't have to worry about running somewhere to score for once, and can take her time shifting the bubble. Your opponent more or less has to come to you, so immediately bite on any positioning mistake. You want your opponent to have to come to you one or two at a time. Care more about killing key models as opposed to spacing out kills. Shoot for 3 points as you're likely to deny your opponent points with that many kills.

Turf War - Definitely go for scoring your back two and the middle if you can pull it on your opponent. Unless you have an independent model don't worry about scoring your opponents markers and just work on denial through killing. Crossing the centerline is key, otherwise their dead aren't going to work for you in neutralizing markers.

Plant Explosives - I'm not a fan with Toni, as your bubble is too compact to plant more than one or two in the space you'll own with it. The winningest strategy for me is to ignore scoring on turn 2 or 3 to punch a big hole in your opponents crew. When they're low on stuff to deny you, break the bubble and rush in the rest of your markers.

Idols - Pretty good, actually, unless terrain forces you to move a whole ton or blocks a lot of LOS on the centerline. Toni can perch in the middle and threaten a good amount of the centerline with lures. Don't ever be afraid to cheat initiative for an advantageous Idol placement. While it does now hurt Amina, definitely use Obeys to force your opponent to move Idols. You have enough healing that it shouldn't be a bother, forces that model to have to walk and interact to push it back, and you can get a stone or two because she sees the interact action.

SCHEMES

Detonate Charges - Very good pick. For one, you're one of the few crews that can do it reliably. Use Union Miners and Steamfitters plus Toni's lure to get a relatively easy first point. Keep in mind your opponent can just kill their own stuff to deny you (like this hard scheme needed to be harder, right?).

Breakthrough - This works great with Captain, Cassandra, or Soulstone Miners. Miners aren't as good just because you have to wait a turn to place your markers. Honestly they might be too slow for that. Best strategy I've found is the same as Plant Explosives: Fight hard in the center and then breakaway for late game points. You're opponent won't likely expect it.

Harness the Ley Lines - This is pretty doable with Union Miners and Steamfitters. The needed 3 is a bit tight otherwise as you might have to stretch out of the bubble to fit the required 4" between markers (guard your scoring minions well!).

Search the Ruins - Not too hot about this. Not only does it need mobility but it requires spreading out. Rely on OOK mostly for this.

Dig Their Graves - Pretty darn easy to score. The first point was seemingly made for Toni's lure. For the second point, abuse your scoring minions again. Get real cheeky and place schemes with steamfitters when they're about to die (you place the corpse, so they'll at least get you 1/3 of the way to your second point).

Hold Up Their Forces - I wouldn't, but is possible with Out of Keyword stuff or being really ballsy with your Miners and Steamfitters. I'd rather protect them and go with a different scheme but I'm not saying it's impossible. If you go OOK I think you're tipping your hand too much.

Take Prisoner - Quite doable! Pick on a weak minion or, even better, a totem. A lot of totems are significant now and good pickings for Take Prisoner. Lure, surround, stall.

Power Ritual - Nope

Outflank - No. Unless you abuse Soulstone Miners. You see this, your opponent is likely to take it because they'll want to avoid your bubble. Consider shifting the bubble to one side or the other so you can deny this for your opponent.

Assassinate - You'll often be gunning for your opponent's master anyways, so this is a good consider. Just reconsider if it's a master that likes to hang waaay back. Be ok with scoring only one point if you have a guaranteed kill.

Deliver a Message - Hate it. Everyone takes it against Toni. Keep her real close to Captain or Howard so their engagement protects her. Using it against your opponent is ok but keeping them alive can often not be worth it for the second point.

Claim Jump - Pretty easy since you love to own the center of the board anyways. Also good because if your opponent takes it they're going to have to meet you in the middle. Soulstone Miners are unfairly easy to score both points.

Vendetta - This is a pretty good scheme. Gunsmiths have a lot of damage output and are juuuuuust cheap enough to have several targets on your opponents crew. Again, don't be afraid to score only once if it's safer to off them right away.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, retnab said:

Good stuff! Just wanted to correct something, Mouse can no longer pull friendlies with his Toss the Noose, since they gain the Staggered before the pull goes off.

Completely missed Staggered, thanks for the catch! I'll need to rewrite that paragraph as it changes him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, retnab said:

Good stuff! Just wanted to correct something, Mouse can no longer pull friendlies with his Toss the Noose, since they gain the Staggered before the pull goes off.

Yeah, I realised that AFTER I'd decided to count on him to pull a model out of line of sight... Bummer.... I believe Amina could still obey a staggered model to walk? Or am I wrong?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, frumpypigskin said:

I had completely missed that Amina can spend a stone to help get obey off on an enemy, make them interact then pitch a low card to get your stone back. Neat!

You can, but why are you spending cards and stones to gain a stone?

If you're playing corrupted idols, then yes its good, but otherwise you're not gaining anything really because the scheme marker is still an enemy scheme marker to you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Adran said:

You can, but why are you spending cards and stones to gain a stone?

If you're playing corrupted idols, then yes its good, but otherwise you're not gaining anything really because the scheme marker is still an enemy scheme marker to you.

Plant Explosives. Also enemy scheme markers are useful for Walk the Line, Fitzsimmons, and Saboteurs.

Edit: Corner case scheme denial. If you know what they're trying to score, forcing them to spend time picking up the marker (another soulstone for you), or having to run to as spot 4 inches away to put another one down is not a bad tactic.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Played my first Ironsides match of M3E proper today, crushing victory vs Wong.

Turf War on Standard, with Dig Graves, Detonate Charges, Outflank, Claim Jump, Assassinate.

Final score 4-0 at end of turn 3, game called because Wong's crew was down to two models with a healthy Toni engaging him. Scored 2 Strat, 1 Outflank, 1 Detonate Charge points.

Big takeaways:

"Bring It" may be the best thing on Toni's card (dragged a Swine Cursed and Alphonse way out of position to their deaths, preventing a Claim Jump).

I like Outflank on Standard, we've got great Versatiles that can run flanks (SS Miner and Arcachnid Swarm this game) while the M&SU blob takes the middle.

I thought M&SU would have suffered more against a blaster-Master like Wong, but the Captain's aura kept the damage low long enough for Toni and the Gunsmith's impressive offense to kill his critical models.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, bertmac said:

Can bring it work against models already base to base with toni?

"Target moves its Mv +2" toward this model. Then, the target must take a :meleeAction that cannot declare Triggers targeting this model, if able. Any damage flips from the generated Action suffer a :-flip"

You do things in order, but it doesn't matter if one of the parts can't be done. You simply skip to the next one. First the target moves, if able. Then it hits you, if able. Then the damage flip, if any, suffers a minus. 

Then there's this bit in the rulebook, under "Moving" (page 14 in the pdf):

Quote

Any time something changes location or is affected by a movement effect, it is considered to have moved (even if it moved 0")

Which leads me to believe that targets in base contact with Toni count as having moved if Bring It is used. Handy if you happen to have a hazardous aura on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Adran pinned this topic
On 8/3/2019 at 2:14 PM, CD1248 said:

Played my first Ironsides match of M3E proper today, crushing victory vs Wong.

Turf War on Standard, with Dig Graves, Detonate Charges, Outflank, Claim Jump, Assassinate.

Final score 4-0 at end of turn 3, game called because Wong's crew was down to two models with a healthy Toni engaging him. Scored 2 Strat, 1 Outflank, 1 Detonate Charge points.

Big takeaways:

"Bring It" may be the best thing on Toni's card (dragged a Swine Cursed and Alphonse way out of position to their deaths, preventing a Claim Jump).

I like Outflank on Standard, we've got great Versatiles that can run flanks (SS Miner and Arcachnid Swarm this game) while the M&SU blob takes the middle.

I thought M&SU would have suffered more against a blaster-Master like Wong, but the Captain's aura kept the damage low long enough for Toni and the Gunsmith's impressive offense to kill his critical models.

What did you use in your crew?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Hoff’s Ball said:

Interesting, no Amina or Fitz?

All my picks were informed by the Strat/Schemes and the fact that my opponent had declared Wong.

I knew I needed Captain for his aura to keep Wong from murdering the M&SU bubble, plus his min-3 damage hammer to take down their beaters quickly. Then I needed two models that could take flanks independently for Outflank, and also to reduce how bubbly my crew actually was, so in go the SS Miner and Swarm.

Gunsmiths went in because Wizz-Bang doesn't have a huge amount of anti-:ranged tech, they're good for sniping people out to unflip Turf Markers, and they could provide cover if a fight on a flank was going poorly. Union Miner was there to do Detonate Charges.

All in all I think my picks ended up being correct. I was on track to score somewhere between 6-8 points had we played to the bitter end.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey.... With the gunsmiths grit... Why don't you have to declare what suit your adding when you declare the action? It says "when declaring an action" before mentioning final dual totals. It would be nice not to have to decide until after the flip and cheat but I believe the line about declaring the action means you have to pick first. Anyone else?

I love your breakdown of the steamfitter. I have struggled to get the most from them this edition and am keen to give them another go now!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, frumpypigskin said:

Hey.... With the gunsmiths grit... Why don't you have to declare what suit your adding when you declare the action? It says "when declaring an action" before mentioning final dual totals. It would be nice not to have to decide until after the flip and cheat but I believe the line about declaring the action means you have to pick first. Anyone else?

I love your breakdown of the steamfitter. I have struggled to get the most from them this edition and am keen to give them another go now!

I think this could use some clarification regardless of what the actual ruling is. My interpretation is that the 'when declaring an action' is to clarify that you can only do this during this models actions. But I can definitely be wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Kaiser Senpai said:

I think this could use some clarification regardless of what the actual ruling is. My interpretation is that the 'when declaring an action' is to clarify that you can only do this during this models actions. But I can definitely be wrong.

I disagree. When declaring an action is a specific timing, and it happens to be before flipping. Until it is clarified, I will play my Gunsmiths so that they declare the suit from the grit before they actually use the action.

Also, a neat trick I have picked up is shooting at Ironsides with Mouse in the first activation. The way the trigger is worded, you get the adrenaline anyway, and don't punch back. Just make sure to flip both (:+flipon Df) and not hit, as staggered is nasty. The Union Miner can do this as well, and here hitting is not nearly as bad. Not something for every game, as it will slow you down, but a nice way to get some adrenaline going

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, MuMantai said:

I disagree. When declaring an action is a specific timing, and it happens to be before flipping. Until it is clarified, I will play my Gunsmiths so that they declare the suit from the grit before they actually use the action.

I don'd even see the need for clarification, since as you say, "when it declares an Action" refers to a very specific point in Action resolution.

For source, people might want to check "Declaring Actions" from the rulebook. Page 23 for the pdf rules.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't mind admitting that I misinterpreted a rule. I'll edit when I get home from work. As far as 'clarification' goes it would be nice to simply state you choose when you declare an action, then add the declared suit to the final duel total. 

Well that makes me a little sad. Not for a drop in perceived power level, but that it's much harder to have an excuse to declare anything but Rams. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information