Errata hopes and dreams?

[Fetid Strumpet]

I have, in fact several other models.

Very few people I know felt nurses were OP or broken. Max Value's hosts didn't. Arcane Reservoir's hosts didn't. Ultimately though it doesn't matter what I think or what you think because it happened. Just because I think they shouldn't have changed them doesn't matter, because it happened and that's an end to it. If you like them keep bringing them. I think they're over costed for what they do now outside of 1 application, which is the Kirai Summoning battery, since her movement speed and requiring a high card in addition to the suit is irrelevant. And as such that's what I'll advise newer players if they ask, of course always saying check for yourself.

A separate and entirely valid argument was that they were not healthy for the game because of how they worked, regardless of balance, which is a separate discussion, and relevant for several different play styles of models that will hopefully get similar nerfs the next time round.

As a note about the students I don't think it breaks the game just as I don't think they needed a change. They are still never going to be hired, and it only gave a buff to models that didn't need it. They should probably just figured out how to differentiate between a hiring cost that's fair and a summoning cost that's fair because they are not the same thing.

 

 

[WWHSD]

1 minute ago, tomhorstmann said:

When I first saw the errata, I was thinking the same. I think the huge blowout turns with Nurses really stick in one's memory. At 6ss, I'm starting to remember all the games where she just sat sat there feeding Philip and the Nanny because she either had no safe targets or I needed my cards for something else. My gut feeling is she is no longer worth it as a miscellaneous interactive model with the chance to do something amazing. I'd rather take something cheaper that I know will be useful every turn. If I have a proactive intent with her, though, like poisoning my own models or, as you mentioned, paralyzing a low WP model for Ply, +1 soulsone won't break the bank.

I think that's the point though of the increase though. Like you said, it's not a big enough increase that you won't take her if you've got a plan for her. It's a problem when the Nurse is cheap enough that you toss her into crews and feel like you're (mostly) getting her points out of her if she does nothing but feed scheme markers to Phillip. 

[tomhorstmann]

Well yes! That's what errata is for.

I think trying to compare the Nurse directly to other models of its SS cost is a fruitless exercise. What if she cost 7ss? 8ss? There'd still be nothing else like her; she's so good at punching above her weight class, and has so much potential every game. I'm obviously not trying to say she should cost that much, but in some games she will perform like she does. She's so swingy that comparing her side by side to other models is impossible. Bringing up the podcast fellows is somewhat of an appeal to authority, let's try and figure out why they don't rate her. I think highly competitive players really value consistency; if I think I'm usually the better player than my opponent, I want to reduce variance as much as possible. They also usually play more games, so the games where she wildly overperforms aren't considered average.

There are models that are tempting to take because you can place them next to others and see that they are just efficient in their stats. Not so with the Nurse. Instead of comparing her to other models I think you're better off thinking of her in context of the crew, and whether 6ss could be better redistributed.

[Paddywhack]

I also like the Nurse as a buffer for my own minions. Drowned that hit at min 4 or PZs with a +2 dmg are brutal. If you can get it set up correctly, and Accomplice helps with this, it can surprise an opponent and could turn a game. 

Overall I think they are still a fun model that offers something different. 

1 hour ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

A separate and entirely valid argument was that they were not healthy for the game because of how they worked, regardless of balance, which is a separate discussion, and relevant for several different play styles of models that will hopefully get similar nerfs the next time round.

I do agree that perhaps their style of play is not a great experience for opponents sometimes. Similar to paralyze or bury mechanics, which can be annoyingly negative to play against sometimes. 

[mojopin]

1 hour ago, Paddywhack said:

I do agree that perhaps their style of play is not a great experience for opponents sometimes. Similar to paralyze or bury mechanics, which can be annoyingly negative to play against sometimes. 

While they can have great plays, making an enemy model losing a turn is in my opinion not close to other painful game experiences like a cerberus mauling your master with one AP or a vanasuba appearing in turn one in the midle of your crew. I will still put a nurse in some crews, i liked them also to increase poison to transfer and expunge and they are fairly unique in this mission  but 6 ss with wk 4 definitely hurt. 

[hydranixx]

19 hours ago, aquenaton said:

Wait a minute! Since when did Mortimer cost only 8ss???? On the listed model changes posted by Aaron I did not see him.

Oh, you're right he's still 9ss. I was told that he was going to see a price decrease with the rest but obviously I have been deceived :/.

Hayreddin is still a god for 6ss. Tonight he made Ply for Information look like a joke.

[McSkip]

What des hayreddin bring to ply? Is IT the severe damals condition removal?

[hydranixx]

Maybe the stars just aligned for me, I'm not sure. He just felt really powerful at it. The easyish access to hitting Severe with that Aura made it tough to deny him ripping it off enemies, while his high mobility with that (0) 6" place for 2 Vitality let him fly in, Ply and place out to a safe place twice in the same game. 

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

I have squeezed Hayreddin into every list I've made post-errata. He wasn't great in every of them, but he really shined in pools that combined Corner Deployment with Sourround Them (which is Ply's always scheme) or Symbols (which is however dependant on how your opponent deploys his markers). I didn't realize that a small change in cost can change my perception of the model so much.

[Merchant]

Comparing hayreddin to thunders 6ss models he still holds up really well, he just kinda needs to be solo. Looking forward to trying him soon.

[Saduhem]

My problem with Hayreddin is that he suffers from being in my list of "Ugliest Malifaux models". It's a VERY small list but Hayreddin is the king of it.

[hydranixx]

Aesthetics are always subjective I suppose. Personally I think his model is fine; not the best Wyrd has done but hardly the worst - put him next to Night Terrors and he looks terrific in my books. You may feel the opposite and that's ok too. I would say that there's heaps of conversion opportunity with the model if you're dissatisfied with him visually - but rulewise he's as solid as far as 6ss models go. 

[Saduhem]

2 hours ago, hydranixx said:

Aesthetics are always subjective I suppose. Personally I think his model is fine; not the best Wyrd has done but hardly the worst - put him next to Night Terrors and he looks terrific in my books. You may feel the opposite and that's ok too. I would say that there's heaps of conversion opportunity with the model if you're dissatisfied with him visually - but rulewise he's as solid as far as 6ss models go. 

Lol I do in fact, the plastic night terrors are some of my absolute favorite :}

[Freman]

That  to damage flips around him could actually be an interesting debuff aura if you're able to keep him within 4" of a bunch of enemy models.

It could help set up blasts from his shotgun too, or give you positive flips on his slug shot. If you've dropped a point of vitality to ignore armour and incorporeal... "Boom!" Possibly 8 damage ignoring common defenses.

[Frollo the Wordbearer]

He ignores armor only with Ml attacks, if I remember correctly. 

The problem with him is that you'd like to have him into a bunch of enemies to debuff them and you'd like to have him survive. And if he do one of these, usually cannot do the other. 

I think I will use him more as a solo anti scheme runner.

[Freman]

Good point, I missed the melee restriction.