How long do you keep the Black Joker in hand?

[moxypoo]

The discussion in this thread (http://wyrd-games.net/community/topic/108966-joker-in-hand/) started to veer away from the original rules question, and I thought the topic was interesting enough to warrant its own thread.

 

How long do you keep the Black Joker in your hand?  Some players like to keep it the entire game, while other keep it only for one turn.  Does the choice of crew matter in your choice?

 

I like to keep the Black Joker in my hand until discarding it on turn 5, because I like to remove as much uncertainty from my deck as possible.  For the same reason, I tend to like masters who can draw cards and often use SS to draw extra cards.

 

Discuss.

[Jewomie]

I'm a "discard at the start of turn 5" player typically.

 

If I see it in my hand turn one, I typically would rather play with a 5 card hand then run the risk of flipping a black joker on an important moment.

 

More often than not I don't spend all my soulstones in a game so burning one or two for more cards has rarely ever been a waste for me. I know some folks disagree with that, but for me, it works. So I don't mind holding onto it for the whole game. but usually since I have never seen a game go to turn 6 since 2.0 launched, I go ahead and ditch it at the start of turn 5.

[Philosfr]

Same here. I'd much rather keep the black joker in my hand than risk it on a critical flip. I would rather draw a black joker than a 13 in most cases. I do tend to ditch it at the beginning of turn 5, risking it showing up on turn 6. Usually if there is a turn 6, there's not many flips happening in my experience, so it's not a concern.

 

The red joker is more challenging... I have a tendency to hold onto it longer than I should, waiting for a perfect time to use it. But then it's not in my deck any more! I should really start using that sucker the same round I draw it.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Yep, I'd echo philosfr, hold on to the black joker as long as possible and probably hold on to the red joker longer than I should.

[Lucidicide]

I don't even put it back in my deck at the end of the game.

 

It's a revolutionary strategy, but it works wonders!

[cursingbulldog]

If they have terrifying I might hold onto it for a couple of turns but I normally have Pact on my master so I can cheat it away if it comes up.

[Victoria]

Always keep the black joker.  Unless you are Rasputina!!

[SuperFly TNT]

Always hang on to the Black Joker as long as possible. I try to use the Red Joker the turn I draw it but sometimes hang on to it for 1 turn.

[Jewomie]

I don't even put it back in my deck at the end of the game.

 

It's a revolutionary strategy, but it works wonders!

habits learned from employees hold up at official tournaments, right? RIGHT???

[dgraz]

I don't like playing down a card. I always discard the BJ at the start of the next turn.  The only thing I won't do is discard it during the turn I draw it unless I have to (Decapitate for example). However, I also play with a lot of redundancy....so if one model fails with the BJ, I usually have another that can cover that gap.

[furysblade]

It's nice to summon the Ikryo with, Makes me feel like it's bad news for my opponent rather than me.

 

I hold onto it as long as possible but often find a good use for it with discards like above.

[Inquisitor Wall]

I will usually keep it in my hand if I draw it turn 1 until the start of turn 3 or 4. If I am at a crucial turn in the game, I hate playing down a card, and discarding it at the start of the turn usually means it is not in play that turn.

[thebarbalag]

Depends on what I plan to do the next turn. If I have a lot to get done, and know I'm going to need all the cards I can get my hands on, then I'll ditch it. If I'm in a position to be more conservative, and I know I'll be strung out the turn after, I'll keep it. Usually I ditch it before turn 5.

[EnternalVoid]

I actually get rid of it a lot based on the game.  Generally I can tell which turn is going to be the "Make or Break" turn whether it is the 5th or the 3rd.  That is the turn I generally discard it and often use a SS to try and build the best hand I can.  The only time I keep it on the Make or Break turn is when I want my opponent to be looking for it in my deck.  Nothing gives your opponent more home sometimes then the possibility of the Black Joker at a key point *save maybe the RJ at a key point*.

 

I have found if I get it to early with the plan to hold it all game it does hinder my hand a bit and eventually my opponent just figures out I have it as it does not come up.  So getting rid of it on that turn I know will basically seal the game is generally good enough for me.

[Math Mathonwy]

I'm also in this latter camp - I discard it during the "make or break" turn. 3rd or 4th usually. If such a turn doesn't come up, I still most likely discard it on 4th turn since 5th often sees fewer and less critical flips than most other turns bar the first in my experience.

[Adran]

I'm with the discard at the beginning of the make or break turn. Although it dioes depend on what crews are in play and how much card flipping I'm expecting to see.

If I expect to go through the whole deck, then I'm much more likely to hold it.

 

Playing with a 5 card hand can be annoying. (To be fair, after I've run a few games as Arcanists, running with only a 6 card hand is also annoying).

[Gitli]

I prefer to keep it in my hand permanently. That way a potential turn 6 and beyond wouldn't be affected by it either.

I too like masters who can draw more cards. I currently play Lilith with Primordial Magic and give Lilith the Eings of Darkness upgrade so by spending 1 stone each turn I'm seeing 11 cards. My simulations have shown me that the chances of having a poor hand is very low and the chances of getting a Joker in hand (hopefully the black joker) is so much higher. I also get to dispose of 5 low cards per turn which is really useful too.

[Joel]

I will discard it for a turn I feel I need as many good cards as possible, the make or break turn - so often I'm discarding it at the start of turn 3 or 4.

 

working on a hand of only 5 cards is not helping you sometimes.

[Adran]

I prefer to keep it in my hand permanently. That way a potential turn 6 and beyond wouldn't be affected by it either.

I too like masters who can draw more cards. I currently play Lilith with Primordial Magic and give Lilith the Eings of Darkness upgrade so by spending 1 stone each turn I'm seeing 11 cards. My simulations have shown me that the chances of having a poor hand is very low and the chances of getting a Joker in hand (hopefully the black joker) is so much higher. I also get to dispose of 5 low cards per turn which is really useful too.

 

I only spend stones on extra cards in 2 situations. 

Firstly if I already have enough weak cards to discard, then I'll consider stoning for more. (I don't like to take moderate cards out of my deck for no use)

Secondly if I am hunting for a particular card to do something. (Examples include 11   fior Ramos, or a high  for Karina or any  for Sommer to be able to summon).

 

Its on a similar vien , that as I near the end of a turn, I'll discard 6s and 7s for Defensive stance, rather than the 1s and 2 from my hands, so I still have the ok cards in my deck next turn, rather than out of it

 

All this is crew and play style dependant as to what are worthwhile cards and what aren't...

[zFiend]

I discard it usually at turn 5 beginning if I have it.

[rubbe]

I usually discard it at the start of turn 5, unless playing a master that makes me draw a lot of card (Zoraida).. in this case i discard it as soon as possible, hopind to draw itagain on the next turn

[Gitli]

I only spend stones on extra cards in 2 situations.

Firstly if I already have enough weak cards to discard, then I'll consider stoning for more. (I don't like to take moderate cards out of my deck for no use)

Secondly if I am hunting for a particular card to do something. (Examples include 11 fior Ramos, or a high for Karina or any for Sommer to be able to summon).

Its on a similar vien , that as I near the end of a turn, I'll discard 6s and 7s for Defensive stance, rather than the 1s and 2 from my hands, so I still have the ok cards in my deck next turn, rather than out of it

All this is crew and play style dependant as to what are worthwhile cards and what aren't...

I definitely wouldn't stone and get rid of half decent cards. When running things like tots I take into account low masks to good options for sprinting for example. That being said, my luck with control hands is usually dreadful and this just helps to ease my mind a bit as I really suffer when I have a bad hand.

[Misery Rex]

Generally I prefer to be able to have the opportunity to do something rather than mitigate the chance at failing at something so the Black Joker usually gets tossed based entirely on my mood.  

 

Then again I am not the best player .

[Shiftyboy]

At this point, I have drawn the bj in my opening hand 6 out of my last 10 games. Quirky luck, I know. I guess that makes me kind of an expert, though. :-D

I typically hold it for at least the first couple of turns. In three of those games I held it until turn 5 (okay, in one I held it until turn 6. Kinda forgot to toss it). In two, I dumped it mid-game during the "make or break" turn noted in previous posts. The remaining game saw Kaeris get a little too close to Somer, and had to lose my whole hand in turn 3 (bj, and a pair of deuces at that point).

Like most of Malifaux, there is no hard and fast rule for this. All comes down to play style and personality.

[SpectreEliteGaming]

Make or break all the way - playing a card down the whole game is practically as bad as BJ'ing yourself...

... wait that came out wrong.

No later than turn 4. Stop being a paranoid patty and accept the fact that bad things happen.