Fetid Strumpet Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 What tends to happen if you bounce Seamus behind Raspy's lines is she paralyzes him, due to his Df 4 and then the Wendigo runs up and eats him. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katadder Posted February 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 What tends to happen if you bounce Seamus behind Raspy's lines is she paralyzes him, due to his Df 4 and then the Wendigo runs up and eats him. which is what the complaint is. upto 3 fairly easy paralyzes per turn from upto 16" away. plus I have no fear of throwing my blasts into combat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flindo Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 for me it would probably be: Guild: Tier 1 Sonnia, Lucius, Hoffman Tier 2 Perdita, Lady J, McCabe Tier 3 McMourning (guild) Arcanists Tier1 Marcus, Ramos, Ironsides Tier2 Collette, Kaeris, Rasputina Tier3 Mei Feng Neverborn Tier1 Dreamer, Jakob Lynch, Pandora Tier2 Collodi, Lillith, Zoraida Tier3 Lucius (Neverborn) Ressers Tier1 Nicodem, Saemus, Tara Tier2 McMourning, Yan Lo, Molly, Kirai Outcasts Tier1 Leveticus, Tara, Jack Daw Tier2 Von Shill, Viktorias, Hamelin Tier3 Miasaki (outcasts) Gremlins Tier1 Som'er, Wong, Ulix Tier2 Ophelia, Mah, Zoraida Tier3 Brewmaster Ten Thunders Tier1 Jakob Lynch, Miasaki, Yan Lo Tier2 Mei Feng, Shen Long, McCabe Tier3 Brewmaster this is just based off my personal experiences, I really dont get all the mah hate, I think shes rediculously powerful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Side note - this is a good thread and a reminder of how good this game is. If we were to make the same list for Warcasters or Warhammer factions I guarantee you we wouldn't see the same variation. Alright, carry on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 for me it would probably be: Guild: Tier 1 Sonnia, Lucius, Hoffman Tier 2 Perdita, Lady J, McCabe Tier 3 McMourning (guild) Neverborn Tier1 Dreamer, Jakob Lynch, Pandora Tier2 Collodi, Lillith, Zoraida Tier3 Lucius (Neverborn) So what makes Lucius tier one for guild but tier three for NB? Is it because NB masters are generally more powerful, or the way he synergies with his crew? I'm of the opinion that Lucius had better tools in NB (illuminated, bbs, tots) than he has in guild(witchling stalkers, hunters, death marshals). I figure the mimics and guardsmen can end up in either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flindo Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 a little bit of both, Neverborn has a lot of incredibly powerful masters, I find them and ressers to have some of the strongest masters in the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I don't get what makes her worse than Lucius, either, but she is more predictable. It's funny, I don't get how to use lj, but Lucius was my first master and is like the back of my hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I don't get how to use lj Walk / Charge, Apply Sword. Repeat til she dies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Walk / Charge, Apply Sword. Repeat til she dies. And purge pesky conditions as necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entropolous Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Could you elaborate this a bit? We have been going at Yan Lo for about a week how useless he is with MD so maybe you would like to open up a bit what the hell is he supposed to do or achieve? Speaking from experience, Transcendence + Izamu, Samurai, and/or Fuhatsu can make a really tough nut to crack if you don't have models that ignore armor. Armor 4, Armor 4 everywhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rancor709 Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 a little bit of both, Neverborn has a lot of incredibly powerful masters, I find them and ressers to have some of the strongest masters in the game. Having played a lot of both Ressers and Neverborn. I agree that this faction may on the whole have the masters that do the most for there crews in comparison to other factions. They are all on the higher end of the active spectrum of masters. Resser masters tend to have the highest support elements, and the largest wound piles and dmg mitigation abilities. And Neverborn have the highest defensive levels/defensive abilities to avoid getting hit while having low wound count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r4st4f4n Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 What tends to happen if you bounce Seamus behind Raspy's lines is she paralyzes him, due to his Df 4 and then the Wendigo runs up and eats him. Now, the Wendigo has Df 4 and 6 Wds, I don't think you even get to pronounce it's whole name before it gets exposed/erased from the field Especially since it has that worrying Devour. That said, it was just a possible part of the plan: those 3 shots min 12 - max 26 Dg can be quite threatening since she has Df 4 too. But just luring her Ice Mirrors away from her range can make her strategy fall apart too. I don't deny that playing Seamus like John Rambo against her can be risky xD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Huh? Three shots? Seamus can only shoot once a turn. Three times if he took sinister reputation, but if he hits all three times the dmg is min dmg 8, not 12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Huh? Three shots? Seamus can only shoot once a turn. Three times if he took sinister reputation, but if he hits all three times the dmg is min dmg 8, not 12.The suggested tactic included Copycat shooting twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Ahh. Must of missed it. Apologies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Wouldn't it be awesome if Seamus shot three times a turn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 You mean Jakob? With a Ram he pretty much has Seamus' gun. He has a little less range, but he can also use in in melee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zinc Lich Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Really, I think I agree almost completely with Math on the Tier lists, except for Hoffman and Guild McMourning. In my experience, Hoffman has the greatest number of bad matchups in the Guild. He does a great job supporting his crew, but as he loses pieces, the total power level of the crew drops. Crews that can very easily scalpel out the models he relies on for his loops, like Shenlong's sniper squad are bad for him. Things that can pull his deathball apart, into bite-sized pieces, like Lillith or pretty much any Resser list is a bad matchup. His crew is almost universally constructs that rely on Armor as their main defensive tech, so Perdita, Kang, the Viktorias, Leveticus, and McMourning all feel like bad matchups. Admittedly, I haven't put as much time into Hoffman as I have some of the other matchups out there, but in pretty much every game, there has been a piece on the opponent's side that I feel are super effective versus the crew that Hoffman wants to bring with him. If that's not materiel for a Tier 3 rating, I don't know what is. On the other side of the fence, I think Guild McMourning also deserves a bump up to tier two. Because of Spot Weakness, he just coincidentally crushes any crew that spams Armor or Hard to Wound. The upgrade is still valuable even if the enemy doesn't take Armored or Hard to Wound stuff because it allows him to take the hilariously powerful Nurses and also win at scheme marker proliferation, so he has a silver bullet for some crews that costs him nothing to take along. Combine that with the easy condition removal of Witchling Stalkers turning off a lot of the down sides related to Nurse's medications, and making them the best healing Guild has access to, and he really feels like a Tier 2 master, to me. Finally, I really want to put VonSchill at tier two, but that is just because I love him and I want everyone else to think that he is as awesome as I think he is. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 I was really, really close to putting Guild McM into Tier 2 and it might've indeed been the right choice. I certainly consider him better than Lady Justice since he is more mobile, buffs his crew better and has access to Nurses. He tanks almost as well (maybe better considering his mobility and Nurses) and is almost as killy. Or rather, he usually is killy enough.Hoffman has some bad matchups true, but I was considering kinda the optimal situation so not taking him against Ressers nor NB.As for Von Schill, yeah, he was another one that I really wondered whether I should put him into Tier 2. But in the end I kinda decided that out of all the Outcast Masters, him and Misaki are the ones I most like to see on the opponent's side. He is really nice against some crews, though, so maybe Tier 2 would be a better fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zinc Lich Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Hoffman has some bad matchups true, but I was considering kinda the optimal situation so not taking him against Ressers nor NB. Really? Outcasts and Ten Thunders are the two factions I would never drop him against. Leveticus eats him for lunch, and the Viktorias are pretty bad for him, as well, while (and this might just be local meta) I see Kang popping up in just about every Ten Thunders list I come across. Honestly, the only faction I would really feel *confident* dropping Hoffman against is Arcanists, and I think McMourning and Sonnia are stronger against that faction in general than he is. If you can guarantee that you won't see Wong across the table, Gremlins might not be a bad match for him, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Really? Outcasts and Ten Thunders are the two factions I would never drop him against. Leveticus eats him for lunch, and the Viktorias are pretty bad for him, as well, while (and this might just be local meta) I see Kang popping up in just about every Ten Thunders list I come across. Honestly, the only faction I would really feel *confident* dropping Hoffman against is Arcanists, and I think McMourning and Sonnia are stronger against that faction in general than he is. If you can guarantee that you won't see Wong across the table, Gremlins might not be a bad match for him, either.Oh aye, not Outcasts, either. But I'm not sure that Kang is such an autoinclude against Guild. I could see taking Hoff against Arcanists, Gremlins, TT, and Guild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nical Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I have played only Neverborn, and mostly supporting style masters. So I talk about only Neverborn Tiers. Tier 1 : Dreamer, Lilith, Collodi Tier 2 : Zoraida, Lynch, Pandora, Lucius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whut Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Arcanists IMO: Tier 0.9: Colette Tier 1: Ramos, Raspy Tier 2: Marcus, Mei Tier 3: Kaeris, Ironsides Although I look at Ironsides and her passive bonus to M&SU and I can't help but think she is "sleeper OP". As in, she is stupid powerful but no one has tapped that potential with a perfectly crafted list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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