So about the new Nekima model

[RagingRodian]

Because there's no choice.  Currently there's no way to see a physical Wyrd model without buying it because there aren't assembled and painted model pics on the website or even on the boxes themselves and they aren't in blisters like the old metals either.

 

If nobody bought a product off of a render nobody would buy anything.  Somebody has to buy the model on nothing but a render even if it's me.  Now others can see the physical model's size in comparison and decide for themselves.

 

True, but we can ask for and should receive pictures of the models before we buy them. Wyrd has done this when asked about what a gaudy/translucent new limited plastic crew looks like. It is a fair request, what does the model look like especially in comparison to other models in the range?

[Sybaris]

Since the model is not officially released yet, they still have time to do something about it, and unlike some other companies, they've done it before, like when the Viks box got giant ronins. So i am not completely out of hope.

 

As stated previously, the current mini-Nekima can work very well as an alternate Barbaros (fits on a 40mm). To turn this whole affair with a bit of humor, I would call her Miss Scale  

[Mastershake]

Honestly the best analogy for my view on this is like if a friend walked in the FLGS with his underwear on his head and acted like nothing was wrong.  As much as the whole underwear on the head thing would bother me, the fact that he looked at that and "bad idea" didn't immediately enter his head would bother me more.

[Bengt]

Fetid Strumpet wrote in one of the other Nekima threads:

A nekima of the size of the old one in plastic would most likely not have been $35, it would most likely have been $50+ dollars. I'm speculating, but personally I think that's why she was scaled down.

One Mature and two Young are $40. As Nekima is Ht3 now and not Ht4 like the metal model she should be about as tall as a Mature (or maybe slightly taller) and is not nearly as thick. A gazillion (~60 actually, but whatever ) pieces kit like Hannah is $35. So $35 for a properly sized Nekima sounds well within precedents to me.

[Fetid Strumpet]

You can't compare one model to another for price comparisons. There are so many factors that go into pricing as I've learned that it just becomes a nightmare. One of the things that causes a large amount of the cost is how long it takes for the plastic to set in the mold before the next one can be injected is a big one. Another is the size of the expected market for the miniature, whic is another strike against her being that cost point.

The young and the mature are common sights in many crews. So there is a larger market for them right there. Additionally they aren't unique, so if you already own a metal mature neph, its not a redundent purchase to by the plastic.

Hannah is totally new to M2E so anyone who didn't get her through the through the breach kickstarter has to buy her if they want her, as there are no hold overs from 1e. Additionally she's a very useful mercenary that I've seen used in every faction.

Nekima is NB only, is only used in some NB lists, and has a popular looking, if not popular in practicality, sculpt from last edition, and is so expensive to hire that you almost have to design your list around utilizing her, So her market is decidedly smaller than almost any other model in the game. All of which impacts her price.

Again I'm totally speculating but given the comments that have been made in the past I think a $35 nekima of the size everyone seems to want Is wishful thinking. And personally, that's why I think they scaled her down. But I totally could be wrong.

[r4st4f4n]

You can't compare one model to another for price comparisons. There are so many factors that go into pricing as I've learned that it just becomes a nightmare. One of the things that causes a large amount of the cost is how long it takes for the plastic to set in the mold before the next one can be injected is a big one. Another is the size of the expected market for the miniature, whic is another strike against her being that cost point.

The young and the mature are common sights in many crews. So there is a larger market for them right there. Additionally they aren't unique, so if you already own a metal mature neph, its not a redundent purchase to by the plastic.

Hannah is totally new to M2E so anyone who didn't get her through the through the breach kickstarter has to buy her if they want her, as there are no hold overs from 1e. Additionally she's a very useful mercenary that I've seen used in every faction.

Nekima is NB only, is only used in some NB lists, and has a popular looking, if not popular in practicality, sculpt from last edition, and is so expensive to hire that you almost have to design your list around utilizing her, So her market is decidedly smaller than almost any other model in the game. All of which impacts her price.

Again I'm totally speculating but given the comments that have been made in the past I think a $35 nekima of the size everyone seems to want Is wishful thinking. And personally, that's why I think they scaled her down. But I totally could be wrong.

That's why a company aims to enlarge their customers base, by luring new and new players, and Malifaux has a potential of 20 times the actual one. It is called Economy of scale, and it is the winning strategy, opposite to the GW one, trying to squeeze out every last penny from their already unfortunate customers who haven't quit yet. All Wyrd has to do, is to keep making an attractive best quality and budget product, and all our several diffuse knots(the main type of diffusion we have, from what I got in these years), will just grow and link into larger and larger webs. That's why the community is so responsive about what could be considered a issue, and could make a newborn community lose momentum/interest and die.

At least, this is why I partecipate to these discussions

[Mastershake]

You can't compare one model to another for price comparisons. There are so many factors that go into pricing as I've learned that it just becomes a nightmare. One of the things that causes a large amount of the cost is how long it takes for the plastic to set in the mold before the next one can be injected is a big one. Another is the size of the expected market for the miniature, whic is another strike against her being that cost point.

The young and the mature are common sights in many crews. So there is a larger market for them right there. Additionally they aren't unique, so if you already own a metal mature neph, its not a redundent purchase to by the plastic.

Hannah is totally new to M2E so anyone who didn't get her through the through the breach kickstarter has to buy her if they want her, as there are no hold overs from 1e. Additionally she's a very useful mercenary that I've seen used in every faction.

Nekima is NB only, is only used in some NB lists, and has a popular looking, if not popular in practicality, sculpt from last edition, and is so expensive to hire that you almost have to design your list around utilizing her, So her market is decidedly smaller than almost any other model in the game. All of which impacts her price.

Again I'm totally speculating but given the comments that have been made in the past I think a $35 nekima of the size everyone seems to want Is wishful thinking. And personally, that's why I think they scaled her down. But I totally could be wrong.

 

Please stop.

 

Don't take this as an insult, but you keep mentioning that she'll be more than $35 and only offer some speculation as to why with nothing to back it up.  Then whenever someone makes comparisons to other models in the range they get the same rebuttal that's "it's different and you shouldn't compare them".  Basically that response boils down to "you can't have a discussion with me".  I', well aware you think Nekima will cost a fortune as does everyone who's perused this thread or one of the other ones which have gotten locked, but you have nothing to support your claim and every rebuttal gets the same dismissal.

 

Again, I'm trying to do this as politely as possible, but you keep asserting this and don't really have anything to back it up.  I acknowledge her being above $35 is possible, but I don't think it's a sure thing.

[Ikvar]

Please stop.

 

Don't take this as an insult, but you keep mentioning that she'll be more than $35 and only offer some speculation as to why with nothing to back it up.  Then whenever someone makes comparisons to other models in the range they get the same rebuttal that's "it's different and you shouldn't compare them".  Basically that response boils down to "you can't have a discussion with me".  I', well aware you think Nekima will cost a fortune as does everyone who's perused this thread or one of the other ones which have gotten locked, but you have nothing to support your claim and every rebuttal gets the same dismissal.

 

Again, I'm trying to do this as politely as possible, but you keep asserting this and don't really have anything to back it up.  I acknowledge her being above $35 is possible, but I don't think it's a sure thing.

 

You are a nice man Fetid, and I fully understand what you mean. But discussing with someone who keeps saying the same theoretical line gets a bit old. The fact that a lot of us are very disappointed is not theoretical, the fact that she is supposed to be taller by all accounts is not theoretical, the fact that this was a figure many was looking forward to even people who do not play this game is not theoretical, the fact that she is smaller than many other HT2 figures who are even known to be small in the lore(barbaros) is not theoretical either.

 

I honestly dont care about the price of this figure, even if I had to pay 50$ for a taller version I would still do it.

 

I really hope I dont come out as to aggressive, and I hope my english is understandable, I really mean no disrespect

[Fetid Strumpet]

And I totally admit that. And you may have a point. At the same time I would like everyone who thinks the new nekima was a mistake that needs to be fixed to stop. I don't want them to stop complaining they don't like the model, but the constant narrative that they "made a mistake" and therefore Nekima needs a "fix" is equally irritating to me.

As far as we know Wyrd did not make a mistake with Nekima. When wyrd has made a mistakes in the past they admit it. The rework of the Transmortis cards, the scale issue of the Vickie's box, the scale issue of the female multi part model kits, Nekima's price issue. All these were mistakes and wyrd let the community know it. So the evidence points to the fact that the new Nekima was not a mistake.

Now I don't have any problem with people complaining they don't like the new Nekima, or not liking tht she is the size she is, but just as you have an issue with my assertion that they couldn't make a nekima the size people were expecting for the price they were expecting, I have an issue with that continuing narrative, and both should most likely end.

Wyrd has had many misses with the new sculpts. And the truth is in all those cases that miss is totally sibjective. I loath the new Molly and Colette, but just because I don't like them doesn't mean that wyrd made a mistake. Personally from a play perspective I like te smaller nekima, just as I've always liked the smaller chompy as opposed to the new plastic or the nightmare chompy, but that doesn't mean I'm right, as there is no "right" answer.

[Shadowfane]

 

You are a nice man Fetid, and I fully understand what you mean. But discussing with someone who keeps saying the same theoretical line gets a bit old. The fact that a lot of us are very disappointed is not theoretical, the fact that she is supposed to be taller by all accounts is not theoretical, the fact that this was a figure many was looking forward to even people who do not play this game is not theoretical, the fact that she is smaller than many other HT2 figures who are even known to be small in the lore(barbaros) is not theoretical either.

 

I honestly dont care about the price of this figure, even if I had to pay 50$ for a taller version I would still do it.

 

I really hope I dont come out as to aggressive, and I hope my english is understandable, I really mean no disrespect

 

Quick point here - if you build her as is (ie, on the rock) she's the same height as Teddy is, another iconic HT3 model - people complaining that she's smaller than HT2 models are using her without the rock, which, technically is a conversion, since you aren't using the model as it comes.

 

Now I'm not by any means saying people are wrong to feel like they do, I'm just pointing out that the model, as a whole, does come to the same height as another HT3 model....

[SpiralngCadavr]

Okay... to facilitate the comparison, are there any unique, somewhat niche models that existed in last edition and are now in plastic but not in starter boxes? Without a big list in front of me, I can't think of any other examples- can anyone else?

...Actually, typing that out, it makes me nervous about plastic avatars if Fetid's argument is correct.

[Sybaris]

Sorry Fetid, if you can speculate that it was intended to be as small, so can i speculate that it is a mistake.

 

About the pricing...the webstore is a great point to start.

 

The current prices looks to be set by brackets, with the most expensive things being crew boxes, ranging from 35 to 50, in 5$ increments.  Indidividual sets range between 11$ to 35$, going through 15,16, 18, 21). Notice the absence of a 25$ product. The prices seems to be based on the kit's complexity (size, detail) and the number of models. To be honest the prices seems to be far more based on production costs than marketing potential (ophelia is 50$, just like Justice, but there's 8 models in there)...or at least it doesn't play much more than 5$ from what we can see. Limited editon stuff is completely different, of course.

 

Now about the "speculation" that the resizing was intended...

 

Notice that in their explanation, they never said they intended Nekima to be smaller, they were careful to avoid talking aobut that...rather they just said that, due to someone's health, the price was put out wrong and basically...it was forgotten until the forums went raging about it then went for a partial refund.

 

Health is a very serious issue, i am sad to hear stuff is going wrong for anyone, but from a company's perspective, personal issues should never be used as a scapegoat to explain a company's mistake. It's basic business... (a dog ate the documents, darn!). As a buyer, can i use my health to ask a full refund on the order?

 

A kit's price...surely isn't decided during black friday...it's most likely decided before production orders even starts, to at least have figures to work with. I suspect a few swear words were heard in the studio when they found out Nekima was that small, whenever they actually found it.

 

It felt as if the company decided to wait and see...and then was caught off-guard by the community's outrage and went for the partial refund solution to prevent the loss of the sales. Surely, if it was intended...it would have been better from a PR point of view to mention this much earlier, before people even press the buy button on the webstore or get the orders in the mail. It was obvious that people would be mislead, since there was no way at all for any customer to expect the model to be that small...and mislead customers are seriously bad for business (again, basic stuff).

 

That could lead someone to speculate that it wasn't intended to be this small.

 

The real aftermath of this, for me, is that my wife is no longer a fan of the company...she knows how much time i spent to test Nekima and the 2nd edition (she had to be on the other side of the table), and so wanted to give the model to me even if we had the metal. Now she wants me to send the thing back. I had to explain ther the issue...and she is shocked that there was no way of knowing the size of the miniature at purchase, given there was no indication of such change from the previous one (at least comparable to a Mature, being Ht3). No other model got this kind of shrinkage. She compares it to buying clothes online, not knowing the size, then being offered a discount when it's not found to her liking. Her analogy is better than i thought initially, because the concept of "fitting" is subjective, just like the concept of a miniature that feels too small. In the case of clothes, she just returns the items for a full refund.

 

In any case...the model seems to have sold relatively well, otherwise the reaction wouldn't have been this big and this thread wouldn't have such a following.

[Omenbringer]

As far as we know Wyrd did not make a mistake with Nekima. When wyrd has made a mistakes in the past they admit it. The rework of the Transmortis cards, the scale issue of the Vickie's box, the scale issue of the female multi part model kits, Nekima's price issue. All these were mistakes and wyrd let the community know it. So the evidence points to the fact that the new Nekima was not a mistake.

These are really not good examples of Wyrd doing the right thing and admitting a mistake was made. These are all examples of Wyrd being called on their mistakes by the community at large in threads very similar to these and then choosing whether to address the issue substantially after the fact.

 

The official line was that there was nothing wrong with the University of Transmortis Models though they choose to re-address them due to wide spread "Meh" feelings (and likely very low sales). To my knowledge they have never admitted any problems with them outside of perhaps a few "select" circles. The amazon Viks were also defended as "intended" until the comparison photos and lengthy threads about them. The female multi-part kit was also called "intended" by the company and there has been no effort to fix them despite the obviously weird scaling of the extremities. There are other obviously out of scale models that were handled in peculiar ways such as simply increasing their base size.

 

Though I like both Nekima's look, this plastic one is very obviously smaller than it should be. Sure with her included rock she might be as tall as Teddy but that is like saying she is the correct height when placed on a 1" plinth base so what is the big deal.

[scarlett fever]

As far as we know Wyrd did not make a mistake with Nekima. When wyrd has made a mistakes in the past they admit it.

 

I don't believe this to be true. I think when they can afford to rectify their mistakes (Viks etc) they do, but there are so many scale mistakes in the Malifaux collection that I believe they're trying to pick the worst offenders without breaking the bank to keep things under control, that's just pragmatic.

As much as I wish my couching Pathfinder and Samurai figures weren't 2 feet taller than my 'giant' Fuhatsu and that we didn't have mini Ht3 Nekima and 8 foot Young Lacroix (and deformed Watchers) I can't see there being mass changes to already machined figure moulds any time soon.

But keeping up these conversations puts pressure on Wyrd to problem solve whatever step in the creation process is at fault, so hopefully we won't see this again in future releases.

[zFiend]

These are really not good examples of Wyrd doing the right thing and admitting a mistake was made. These are all examples of Wyrd being called on their mistakes by the community at large in threads very similar to these and then choosing whether to address the issue substantially after the fact.

 

The official line was that there was nothing wrong with the University of Transmortis Models though they choose to re-address them due to wide spread "Meh" feelings (and likely very low sales). To my knowledge they have never admitted any problems with them outside of perhaps a few "select" circles. The amazon Viks were also defended as "intended" until the comparison photos and lengthy threads about them. The female multi-part kit was also called "intended" by the company and there has been no effort to fix them despite the obviously weird scaling of the extremities. There are other obviously out of scale models that were handled in peculiar ways such as simply increasing their base size.

 

That's how I remember them as well actually. 

[Ikvar]

And I totally admit that. And you may have a point. At the same time I would like everyone who thinks the new nekima was a mistake that needs to be fixed to stop. I don't want them to stop complaining they don't like the model, but the constant narrative that they "made a mistake" and therefore Nekima needs a "fix" is equally irritating to me.

As far as we know Wyrd did not make a mistake with Nekima. When wyrd has made a mistakes in the past they admit it. The rework of the Transmortis cards, the scale issue of the Vickie's box, the scale issue of the female multi part model kits, Nekima's price issue. All these were mistakes and wyrd let the community know it. So the evidence points to the fact that the new Nekima was not a mistake.

Now I don't have any problem with people complaining they don't like the new Nekima, or not liking tht she is the size she is, but just as you have an issue with my assertion that they couldn't make a nekima the size people were expecting for the price they were expecting, I have an issue with that continuing narrative, and both should most likely end.

Wyrd has had many misses with the new sculpts. And the truth is in all those cases that miss is totally sibjective. I loath the new Molly and Colette, but just because I don't like them doesn't mean that wyrd made a mistake. Personally from a play perspective I like te smaller nekima, just as I've always liked the smaller chompy as opposed to the new plastic or the nightmare chompy, but that doesn't mean I'm right, as there is no "right" answer.

 

I dont see why you would have a problem with me asking a simple yes or no question to wyrd- wyrd have always been open to questions about their products, so why should you have a problem when I state a simple none aggressive question?

 

If I had simply raged and said that the model was awful, and asked them how they could be so stupid (just to make sure, I do no think anyone at wyrd are stupid^^), I would understand why you did not like what I said. But it should really not touch you in any way, that I ask a simple question to a company that is known to be okay with criticism.

 

I love the fact that we play a game, and buy stuff from a company that does not ban me for asking these questions, so please dont take it upon yourself and try to make it a problem for people to be curious, or ask questions.

[Math Mathonwy]

As far as we know Wyrd did not make a mistake with Nekima. When wyrd has made a mistakes in the past they admit it. The rework of the Transmortis cards, the scale issue of the Vickie's box, the scale issue of the female multi part model kits, Nekima's price issue. All these were mistakes and wyrd let the community know it. So the evidence points to the fact that the new Nekima was not a mistake.

This is a weirdly circular argument. "Wyrd always admit when they make mistakes so therefore they did only the mistakes they admitted to."

There is zero chance that the Young LaCroix were intended to be bigger than any other Gremlins (except Lenny). Zero chance. Why zero? Because the alternative (that they were intended to be that big) is too horrible to contemplate.

[Ausplosions]

Don't forget the "as intended" kneeling death Marshall....

We were given THAT particulsr line before EVERY SINGLE kneeling model released was too big by half....

And yet nothing's been done there...

Someone went to China to get this sorted? How? Did they just get them to make things half as small and in a 2d perspective?

[LordFezzington]

This is a weirdly circular argument. "Wyrd always admit when they make mistakes so therefore they did only the mistakes they admitted to."

My issue with the whole argument is that Wyrd have admitted a mistake with Nekima - the price - but not a perceived mistake over scale. 

 

Whilst I agree that she does look smaller than expected, if people insist on saying there has been a scaling error, then those people are effectively accusing Aaron and Wyrd of actively lying to their customer base, which is a little disingenuous in my view.

[SpiralngCadavr]

I don't think Wyrd's lying, though I think they are doing a bit of damage control since "off, but close enough or otherwise deemed impractical to fix, since those molds are really expensive," and "intended" are effectively the same thing to consumers (no possibility of change) but saying there was an acceptable problem would upset people more than saying something weird was intended.

 

However, Lordfezzington, saying that anyone saying they think wyrd is lying is actually lying, themselves, is a pretty weird assumption (that no one is capable of having the opinion that a company is lying).

[LordFezzington]

I don't think Wyrd's lying, though I think they are doing a bit of damage control since "off, but close enough or otherwise deemed impractical to fix, since those molds are really expensive," and "intended" are effectively the same thing to consumers (no possibility of change) but saying there was an acceptable problem would upset people more than saying something weird was intended.

 

However, Lordfezzington, saying that anyone saying they think wyrd is lying is actually lying, themselves, is a pretty weird assumption (that no one is capable of having the opinion that a company is lying).

Yeah, I meant cynical rather than disingenuous really - poor word choice. In that some posters seem to be assuming Wyrd are being dishonest without any real evidence.

[SpiralngCadavr]

OK, fair enough.

[mythicFOX]

<MOD HAT>

Eight pages in now this thread would seem to have run it's coarse. I've had to intervene a couple of times already and reading back of the last page or so things don't seem to be heading in a positive direction. It now just looks to be the same people expressing the same few points at each other over and over.

On a quick count through somewhere between 25 and 30 users have expressed a concern about the situation. Wyrd have responded to those concerns with a formal announcement.

I'm not sure what leaving this thread open will achieve now other than giving people an opportunity to argue more and into trouble. On that basis I'm locking things here.

</MOD HAT>