So what's the main (style) theme of the Arcanists?

[surly]

Looking through all the factions, Arcanists seem to have some really strong themes stylewise, but they don't really connect so well together imo. Let me explain ...

- Guild is fairly obvious, you have mostly humans and some mechanical stuff that fits the core style theme.

- Ressers have a pretty obvious theme too, zombies and undeads in all variations.

- Gremlins are similar to Guild imo, you have small and larger ones, pigs and a humoristic touch that can be found on most models.

- 10Thunders have a bit of more variety, some undeads, ninjas, monks etc ... but everything gets hold together from the obvious asian style.

- Neverborn are similar to 10Thunders imo, since they pack a lot of grotesque style in their models, this holds them together. Since basically every model looks completely different (Nephilim aside) you simply end up with a pretty bizare crew, that still fits together imo.

- Outcast are probably very similar to Arcanists actually...

So looking at the Arcanists now things get a bit different (and not in a negative way, just ... "different" ).

Rasputina's main crew packs ice creatures.

Ramos brings all sort of creations and mechanical spiders.

Marcus likes to surround himself with ferocious beasts.

Colette and her girls are dancers in fancy dresses.

Kaeris is a mechanical Angel that likes to see the world burn.

Mei Feng brings an asian flair into the faction.

Last but not least, we have Ironside, a fist fighting brawler.

So when building your crews, how do they look like in the end? I mean if you want to go banana you can hire a frost elemental, a showgirl, a mechanical spider, a three headed sabertooth and a guy throwing dynamite around in one crew.

Again, this is no rant or some negative writing, I'm just curious how you like this "lack of correlation"?

Do you avoid going extreme like described above, and stick to a theme?

Or do you prefer going wild and don't care or (even better) like this lack of connection?

Do you try to link the faction together with similar bases?

Would be great reading your opinions

[Hateful Darkblack]

Great topic!

 

I think the major themes of Arcanists are constructs, and control of elemental forces.

 

Each master has a "theme" of some elemental force they control. Most (but not all) have a bunch of constructs related to that.

 

Ramos: Force is electricity, constructs are spiders.

Marcus: Force is beasts (yeah, kind of a stretch), but no constructs.

Rasputina: Force is ice, constructs are ice golems/gamin.

Mei Feng: Force is fire, constructs are rail golem/metal gamin.

Kaeris: Force is fire, constructs are fire gamin.

Ironsides: Force is wind (on Captain & Oxford Mages), but no constructs.

Colette: Force is music (also a stretch), constructs are coryphee/mannequins.

[Hateful Darkblack]

I kinda think that the Outcasts have two overlapping themes: mercenaries outside the system (Viks, Freikorps, Misaki, kinda Tara and Leveticus), and corrupt magical entities (Hamelin, Jack Daw, Leveticus, Tara). Thematically, they have activation control, high levels of Crew synergy, lots of Mercenaries, and a good number of gunners.

 

Neverborn seem to have a few tactical themes too: mobility, melee attacks, and Wp-based attacks.

 

Note also that there are plenty of exceptions in every Faction. Lady Justice, the iconic Guild master, doesn't even have a Sh attack in M2E. (Just a Sh-based defensive tactical action.)

[admiralvorkraft]

The Arcanists do have a strong sub-theme of blue collar union workers. I think you could stick to M&SU and Foundry models and build a strongly themed list around Ironsides, Kaeris, Mei Feng, or Ramos. In fact, when I get tired of Guild that's probably the direction I'm going to go.

[surly]

Good points

I like the thinking of those forces.

However to me the Arcanists feel a bit odd to collect as a faction. Say you're into Guild and got your Lady J Crew, one day you expand and buy the Perdita and Lucius crew. Now, you have more humans - paint and base them the same and everybody will see they belong into the same faction.

Or you have a Som'er box, get yourself Ophelia, perfect.

However, say you have a Marcus crew and get a box of Ramos and Rasputina. Well ... you'll propably have a hard time make look them correlated

[Taodark]

I think if your looking for a way to bind them to one army and thematically they don't fit your best option is color palette to make them fit together.

[decker_cky]

Marcus and Rasputina don't really fit the faction too well, but everyone else is tightly connected with the M&SU in some way. Even Rasputina fits.

 

Beyond Marcus and his beasts, Arcanists are basically humans heavily supported by constructs to varying degrees,with some constructs being summoned gamin and golems. 

[Jordon]

I think that they have three main synergies that can cross over between masters and it's usually how I like to construct crews. First big one is constructs which every master with the exception of marcus can utilize quite well. I think overall it's the core to our faction the same way ressers use undead.

 

The two sub themes I think the arcanists play a lot into is burning and M&SU. Just about half of our masters and a vast chunk of models are M&SU and some of our best upgrades are to do with the M&SU characteristic. Lastly we have access to tons of burning and a handful of models that can interact with said burning. 

 

I find some of the best synergy is found when I combine all three in a single list. For example Bleeding edge tech and powered by flame are two such upgrades that bind together well. They both require M&SU, and both effect constructs and one of the results (powered by flame) is fire. Fortunately there are quite a few models that fit this criteria of M&SU constructs and quite a few masters (Ironsides, Mei, Ramos, and Kaeris) who can all share crews quite well. There can also be an argument for Colette as she plays well with pretty much any crew. 

 

But Raspy and Marcus are generally loners who don't play nice with the rest of the faction, but fortunately for them, they are still awesome, and in the case of Marcus, he is almost a faction on to himself. 

[Durza]

I'd say the theme is magic and constructs, and even then the constructs are robots powered by magic or just straight up magically controlled chunks of ice etc.

 

Marcus is controlling and mutating the beasts with magic.

Raspy and Kaeris nuke stuff with magic.

Colette manipulates and tricks with magic.

Ramos and Mei Feng use constructs and Magic.

Ironsides is a bit more out there, she does use her Oxford mages, and you could go with the adrenaline mechanic as maybe magic.

[surly]

I think we can agree on the constructs as a key element for gaming.

Still looking at the available ones, there's quite a huge difference in optics. Mannequin, mechanical spiders, gamin of all types or the rail crew don't really fit together.

Same is propably true for humans too, Joss, Gunsmith, Performer or December Acolytes don't have much in common.

Do you mind?

Also, as already stated above, amy ideas beside basing and painting to make them fit together better?

[osoi]

Basing wise I am putting most of Arcanists on Railroads and wilderness/badlands bases. I am also adding elements such as crates and barrels to a few bases too.

 

Tying everyone together this way isnt too hard, all the M&SU type models fit well in this type of base, for the frozen heart models they straddle a bit more wilderness or I am putting snow on the tracks, Marcus and his beasts though are going more wilderness/badlands and as the colour palette of all the bases will be similar they will still look in place with the other crews.

[Dirial]

Still looking at the available ones, there's quite a huge difference in optics. Mannequin, mechanical spiders, gamin of all types or the rail crew don't really fit together.

 

While I get what you mean, the optical differences aren't much greater than between a Perdita and Hoffmann crew, I think. All the factions have some diversity, some more, some less. It makes it difficult to set them on a shelf and have them look like a giant army, but especially Outcasts and Arcanists are no armies. They would never march into battle against the Guild or something. It's just not their style.

 

The theme for Arcanists always was "underground magic" for me. All of them either hide their magical abilities, or live on the fringes of human society. Thus, it's also the faction with most obvious magic attacks. If you want spell slingers in every crew, Arcanists is the way to go.

[Parintachin]

I have a budding Arcanist force, and I plan to bind them together like this: Rasputina, my first Arcanist master, and her Ice Gamin and icy creatures are all going to be based on earthy, tufts of grass and flowers bases, with patches of melting snow.
The others will have variations of that theme; the same earhy bases, but more greens and perhaps some shrubbery for Marcus, the odd discarded electrical looking implement for Ramos, the plants will be scorched and smoldering for Kaeris, etc. 'neutral' miniatures will just get the earthy bases with grass and flowers. 

 

That's the Plan anyway, for now, it's just Raspy and her boys getting painted. 

[MasterDisaster]

I think the idea behind the Arcanists as a faction that ties them all together in one group is that (in the Guild's eyes and laws at least) they are all rogue / renegade / unsanctioned magic users, because of this they can all relate to each other on an least one level because they share a common enemy in the Guild. Each has their own focal point be it Beasts, Fire, Ice, Electricity etc but they live outside the Guild's law. Many join the M&SU and some have their own agenda. The dominant sub-theme within the faction has to be the M&SU though. Ramos, Mei Feng, Ironsides, Kaeris and even Colette have strong ties to the M&SU. Rasputina and Marcus not so much I guess but it's definitely a faction full of flavor and interesting characters. They all seem to have some involvement with Constructs with Marcus being the only real exception to this and they often rely fairly heavily on their Construct friends in one way or another. I'd be all over the Arcanists if I wasn't currently delving into Neverborn whilst trying to hold grip on Guild, Outcasts and Ten Thunders. 

[Sybarite]

Isn't it a bit weird that Ramos has electric themed spells but steam driven constructs?

[Kadeton]

Isn't it a bit weird that Ramos has electric themed spells but steam driven constructs?

 

It may surprise you to learn that almost all electricity is generated by steam. I just assume that Ramos has perfect some form of micro-turbine that he uses to power his constructs.

[MasterDisaster]

Isn't it a bit weird that Ramos has electric themed spells but steam driven constructs?

 

It's Malifaux, a world of magic. Just go with it 

 

If there is something that doesn't make sense just justify it with magic *nods*

[Bloaty]

 

Ramos: Force is electricity, constructs are spiders.

Marcus: Force is beasts (yeah, kind of a stretch), but no constructs.

Rasputina: Force is ice, constructs are ice golems/gamin.

Mei Feng: Force is fire, constructs are rail golem/metal gamin.

Kaeris: Force is fire, constructs are fire gamin.

Ironsides: Force is wind (on Captain & Oxford Mages), but no constructs.

Colette: Force is music (also a stretch), constructs are coryphee/mannequins.

 

I've always seen Marcus as the nature aspect of magic and Colette as like prestidigitation or cantrip style magic to round out all the general schools of magic.

 

I also see Mei as metalmancer of doom more than fire.

[Adran]

I personally don't agree with your original premise. The only Faction I see as beeing thematically aligned is the the Guild, as they all work for the same orgaisation. So stylewise you would see some uniformity to human clothing, and mechanical paint jobs (although I can  also see different districs of Malifaux painitn  up their hunters and so forth, just like WW2 bomber crews did)

Ressurectionist has a wide range of undead, humans and spirits from a huge range of areas. McMorning with a shikome is just as strange as Kirai with sebastian.

 

Aracanists were the outcast magic users. The original 3 masters had no real overlap in models, but did seem to have story links where they would communicate and help each other. They have been warped over the release schedule by almost all the releases in Faction being on 1/3 of that original triangle, and the M&SU has gone from being almost non-existant within the faction, to easily being mistaken for the faction.

 

So I don't find it too "out of theme" to field Ramos with a Cerberus, or Marcus with a Corephyee duet.

But then I don't see Marcus as a Force of Nature, and Natural magic. I see him as looking at ways of improving the natural order. Yes, he doesn't do so much duuring the course of a game, but he probably does more research into changing things from "Nature" than any one else ( and that includes McMorning).

 

If you do want your models all looking  similar, then you would probably need to do so with Basing. I would suggest Wilderness, and Snow themed if thats what you want (Even the show girls go out and smuggle. Prehaps not so often in those dresses.)

I personally don't go tht way, and try and base the model in a way that fits the model, and acceopt that my crew doesn't look that cohesive on the table.

[surly]

Nice point Adran. You make a good point there, but I'd like to add that there is propably no right or wrong, since it's up to individual taste imo.

Speaking for myself, I'm currently getting lots of the classic M1E metal miniatures. Imo many of them have really different styles compared to the new range. At least for me they fit together way better than the new ones, but again, that's just my opinion

[Taodark]

On a slightly similar vein.  Is there a style of thematic base that would help bind all the arcanist models together?

 

I was thinking maybe grated and piped bases for the steam union theme, with the Ice theme just having some frosted over pipes and what, but then I look at Marcus and I am like ehhhh.

[bertmac]

Cogs or rails work for most

[HowNot2Wargame]

I know this is more or a 'visual' thread, but tactically the two which I always seem to notice is reliance on armour or triggers for defence and scheme marker manipulation. Rarely get to play against arcanists, but these always pop into my head for some reason

[KingCowfish]

Basing wise (because I do feel that unified basing is the best way to create any sort of cohesiveness within the factions), I think maybe we should see what else is taken and work from there:

 

Guild: would make most sense to go with a sort of "ghost town" theme as the Guild is usually the ones trying to expand their influence from the heart of Malifaux outward.  Additionally, they have the whole "desperado" theme going on which just really works well.  Cobblestone/road bases would work too, but I think they would look better on something further from civilization/more cowboyesque.

 

Ress: graveyard.  Only Seamus feels a little off in this regard, but it still works.  Sewers might work too.

 

Neverborn: definitely sewers, as I am pretty sure they are the best way for Neverborn to move around in the city.  I could also see maybe some sort of barren wasteland with purple hues to show their otherness.  

 

Ten Thunders: I dig the zen bases what with the asian theme and all, though I would make it more subtle and keep the base somewhat in line with whichever faction the leader is trying to hide in.

 

Outcasts: Not Sure, probably Badlands type thing, as they seem to be the ones who do the really hard out of the way stuff.

 

Gremlins: Bayou or ghost town, though I like the Bayou more due to piggies.

 

 

 

So what does that leave the arcanists?  Since the leaders are all very spread out (Mountains for Raspy, Wilds for Marcus, etc.), the best option would be to base them in the place that they would most likely gather/battle together as any battle that took place on their home turf would most likely be fought with minions indigenous to that area.  So I think the best way to make them look cohesive would be to base them on cracked cobblestones/roads, the city centers closer to the guild controlled areas of Malifaux that might prove useful for future disruption.  

 

 

I have been struggling with how to base my Marcus crew for a while (I really don't like the idea of going with the trend of putting his crew on "Wilds" bases), so any thoughts on the above would be great!

[Parintachin]

For Neverborn, I really like gloss black bases with brightly colored 'arcane' symbols, like the ones Jotun's done here