Maniacal_cackle

I was sick and had to cancel on him, so we're playing next weekend! Sorry for the delay. I got real sick earlier this year and appear to have permanent lung damage, so sometimes can't always stick to my schedule. (I assume it was Covid).

Oh, Bete Noire! Her Rise Again ability allows her to unbury out of a corpse and take the Charge action. Great flavour, she bursts out of a corpse knives swinging. But in practice, since charge is once per activation, it makes her movement quite awkward. Often you want to move and then charge, but you have to do the charge immediately. You also want to do things like charge an ally and bury, then burst from another corpse and charge (flavour being jumping into one bloodstream and ripping out of another corpse's bloodstream I assume). But it's just awkward. The model would really benefit from changing it to "may take the Charge action, ignoring the once per activation restriction." Or just giving the model that ability to charge multiple times a turn. EDIT: As is, Bete Noire is really fantastic as a scheme runner. If you're using her as a scheme runner, you end up not caring that her free charge is the only charge you get that turn. But she is clearly designed to be a murdery stabby stabber. But this one issue really destroys that role.

All great points! For this one, I usually don't decide what schemes I'm taking until the very last moment. This means I often hire Yin into pools where I might Take Prisoner, but I don't always take it. That sort of builds in bluffing automatically. Plus Yin is insane on corrupted leylines, so another good one to bluff with her if Prisoner is in the pool. With a Ride With Me to boost her, she can start disrupting enemy lodestone carriers turn one. I find this particularly effective with Molly (since she almost always has the final activation turn 1).

There's no reason the lodestone would move, and so I think that you just end up with the model locked down. Which isn't too OP i think, especially as you just need to break engagement to break the ability. Although one area that doesn't seem 100% clear is what if the model is killed? Is it ignored for the strategy (and thus the lodestone can't pass and disappears?) That doesn't seem right.

Wow, that's an insanely good trigger if you're regularly using the ability anyway!

On paper they certainly seem like they do all sorts of viable things! And by the time you learn the crew, you should have access to the broader release in November (things like upgrades). And most things are at least 'viable' in casual play, so I'd say you'll be fine

Does it suffer from game effect transfer timing? From memory the replaced model will die in like step 2 if it doesn't heal, and game effect transfer happens in like step 5.

Personally I don't go after backline support pieces immediately. Say you send in a nephilim to kill a Seishin. Now Kirai summons a Goryo or drowned on top of you and you lose a piece. Seishin produce most of their value turn one (since you can't walk out of engagement), and they require a 7 to do it! I just let them contribute to hand drain. Generally against Kirai, she is using her cards to summon and hit target numbers, so I try to use my cards to kill stuff. So I go after the schemers. Shikome, OOK necropunks, etc. Anything that ventures out on its own to score either dies or gets tied up. Good points about damage and roar. I know Dreamer's Terrorize is devastating against her, but I guess Roar isn't as good (Terrorize also engages the model with an expendable summon). In general I try to gunk up important models and make them spend time doing none scoring things. Poking Kirai can be a good way to do this. It takes too many resources to kill a defended Kirai, but poking her makes them spend resources defending her. If they don't defend her it is a free kill, but I find often they do. I think it is a psychological thing - most people aren't willing to lose their summoning master. So if you threaten the kill without spending too many resources actually going for the kill, it can drain them. If assassinate is in the pool, keep asking how much health she has left. They'll assume you're out to kill her and waste models defending her. 😜 Note Ive only played about a dozen games against her. EDIT: oh of course Datsue Ba and Jaakuna are high priority to kill if you can get away with it (Datsue is usually too safe but Jaakuna is almost always killabale). They can't be summoned back. Careful though - a Kirai player takes Jaakuna to gunk you up and slow you down. Don't waste too many resources taking her down. Figure out an efficient way to do it (two focused attacks and a ping like blade rush could do it). EDIT2: also Goryo are somewhat squishy. Don't be afraid to kill a Goryo way out of position. A resummon still means she has been set back.

My first few games against Kirai were brutal (playing Molly at the time). But after 2-3 games I was beating her consistently. One thing to be aware of is she is slow to develop her scoring potential/can be a bit inefficient. I try to snag the prerequisites for points fast and early against her, and then use my crew to keep pressure on her so she is too busy to score. And don't let Goryo burst too many of your models at once... Absolutely brutal that ability xD Also minimise damage you take via Vengeance as Ogid says, but also consider abilities that don't damage. Intimidating Roar is probably very good here.

Speaking as a Molly player, that extra activation without a pass token can be game breaking. You can guarantee last activation on turn one (or two last activations on turn one if you win initiative). You can cause a lot of damage without retaliation with good setup!

I'm confused about the concern about Frozen Trophy on Thoon. It is an after succeeding trigger, so the attack has to actually succeed, right? That's in line with lots of other things.

I would assume yes to both. Presumably it attempts the place and fails. Same as you can flurry even if you're not able to resolve the attack. Although with Flurry you have to declare a target perhaps..? I'm not sure! It won't be very relevant very often though as the Crooligan's bonus action does the same thing but better. But in those times where there's multiple enemy scheme markers, could matter, so can see it mattering in some matchups.

Really great format for a battle report, must have taken so much editing time! That was the correct call about the Waldgeist replacement not counting as the original Waldgeist (couldn't score Claim Jump). It inherits the Gorar's schemes (so if Gorar was claim jumper, then it'd inherit it). Was very interesting seeing how well it all worked out!

Totally! I find it helpful when your opponent has extra incentives to kill the model (recover evidence for example). I've definitely messed it up and accidentally tabled my opponent. Denying myself martyrs xD

Generated actions always occur after all other effects are resolved, so butterfly jump will always happen edit: before the flurry attack (regardless of when you discard the card). See page 34 of the digital rules.

That's definitely something to be aware of, especially if you have a small amount of terrain (my demo games often have three pieces).

Plaag and I will be playing on Vassal tomorrow night, and Plaag will record it. He's playing Kaeris with Borgman, so you can see how he uses the model there if you'd like! Will try to remember to post here.

Oh, to build upon this further... Normally I do demo game with henchman + 3 identical minions for the first game. For the second game, just add a master + totems on to the above crew, and you have a natural progression that stays balanced on both sides. DON'T do this with mercenaries though 😂

Going from the above and noting P&N's crew is 26 stones... Mercenary: Taelor + 3 Ronin (27 stones) Freikorps: Arik or Hannah + 3 Freikorpmsmann (25 stones) Etc. Should be able to find several good options (though might be good to proxy a quick demo game or even just run a few attacks against each other to see how fast models die).

So for Take Prisoner, Yin is pretty much the gold standard. But are there others? Dead Rider with Reap seems quite good, and all of Reva's crew is good at repositioning things. For Hidden Martyrs, Archie + Crooligan is my favourite combo, but there's also likely some potential in our models that can keep themselves safe. Grave golem + canine remains seems like an easy one point, bete noire + any 5 stone model is also very solid as she is super hard to kill, and can usually get into position for the end point. Bone Piles also offer a pretty sweet option for Martyrs' second point. For Catch and Release... Crooligans and Undergraduates seem like the gold standard. Their By Your Side ability is unparalleled for getting into and out of danger (and Molly can even force last activation to really seal the deal). Bone Pile and Lampad seem like decent options as well, with a mix of mobility and survivability. For denying Catch and Release, just don't take any extra masters or henchmen and protect your one master. For Take Prisoner, it's hard to build your crew with no legal targets, so instead just make sure to guard your take prisoner options. For Hidden Martyrs, map out all the legal combos before the game and keep them in mind. For all three schemes, denying the second point is MUCH easier, so be ready to do that.

What if something prevents the Abomination from healing? The new abomination is killed, but I assume nothing gets credit and then there's no score off that either?

I agree with Touchdown. I don't think there's any other tense for 'moved' they could use there (other than the longer 'the distance the model moves').

What I look for in a demo is: Even soulstones on each side. Each crew has a henchman and three identical minions (to minimise how many models there are to learn). In some cases, though, I break from this (like Sebastian + Flesh Construct + 2 nurses + dog) Relatively straightforward mechanics. Relatively balanced strength on each side (unless you're planning on always playing one side of it, in which case give yourself the weaker side). So I guess I have to wonder what you'll use on the Ressers side to be balanced against? Philip and three risers?

I'd suggest asking for tips in the Guild forum, they'll have loads of specific tips.

3 Silurids seems like it might be a bit much. Often they can be really efficient and you can fulfill their duties with even 1. It sounds like you're playing with paper models, so can play any of the swampfiends? I'd try out a bokor and First Mate.