edonil Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Here's the thing, GW is starting to lose ground. Now is the time to make a stab at doing a serious competitor to them. Through their own issues of crappy rules, massively inflated cost of minis ($6/model for Witch Elves, which you need in the dozens to make a functional unit out of? over $25/model for the centurions?), cluelessness when it comes to the market, GW is either going to have to change, or they will begin to shrink. Thus far, based on all the news I've been seeing, GW is insisting that the problem is not them. So long as that continues, they will keep losing ground. (A further discussion on the insanity that is GW can go elsewhere. If you're curious, check out the ongoing series on the topic from Masterminis.) Now, for me, I love hard scifi. And that's actually a genre that's shrinking as well. In terms of genres that are growing for tabletop gaming, the biggest one is probably Steampunk. Malifaux, Warmachine, Wild West Exodus, Dystopian Wars, Dystopian Legions, Infamy miniatures is starting a project, and probably more that I don't know about. Pure Fantasy and Pure Scifi are definitely losing ground on how much of a representation they have. Please note- this is not a bad thing. And I might even be wrong, I'm just thinking over what I've been seeing from Tabletop Fix the past year. Fantasy, however, is still growing as a genre in the 28mm scale. Kings of War, for instance, is a streamlined version of Fantasy. Mierce Miniatures is working on Darklands, Arena Rex is a skirmish style fantasy/mythology game, you've got Drake... But because of the 'reigning king' that is 40k, there's been few serious attempts at doing a competitor. Raging Heroes may end up being one, which would be awesome, but they're focusing on models first, that can be used as 40k proxies, and rules later. Much later, since it feels like, being a backer, they intend to get through the Dark Elf KS later this year before they intend to tackle the rules seriously. So, for those of us who do like 28mm hard scifi, you've got Infinity, which is massively complex and rarely goes over 10 models... and 40k. Which a lot of people are really, really hating. (holds hand up) All this to say- this is a super early idea. This is Mack's idea. And for all that I've put up here, who knows what Mack hopes to do with it. It's not going to replace Malifaux in the priority cue anytime soon, because that is Wyrd's bread and butter. For a comparison, look at the relationship between Magic: The Gathering and Dungeons and Dragons. DnD relies on its sister product in order to be produced, but it has never eclipsed Magic in priority or in sales. And it won't. But at the end of the day, this concept sounds like it has the potential to be awesome. It could be original. It could be amazing. It might be derivative, but just different enough to grab attention. Or, it might actually be awful. I know that I'm excited at the idea. The things that are different sound really cool and fun. A game where the playerbase can actually influence the story? That's pretty different if they follow it through. A game where models react to the loss of comrades besides just breaking their morale? Sounds like a neat concept. I'll be keeping an eye on it, that's for sure, to see how it continues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Ooo, text wall. TL;DR: GW are slowly dying, like a stranded whale, and now is the time for someone to finally step into the arena with the lopsided beast that is 40k because there isn't much else in the 'sci fi army' bracket. While the story evolving over player campaigns is a little risky if you ask me, it sounds like it could be interesting. I'm prepared to see how it goes, maybe it'll scratch the itch for an army sized project for me. In a few years, when I've cleared my painting desk a bit more 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 The idea of a Sci - Fi "army size" game is baffling at the 28mm scale. "We can raze continents, but today we only brought our small guns. 20 of them. " 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotpants Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 You had me until you said 'army scale'. I for one do not ( read will not) want to ever paint a 100+ model count army again (I've painted 5-6 gw armies). Its just no fun. Ive wanted to see what wyrd would do in the sci-fi genre for a while but not at this scale. Please consider a skirmish sci-game instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 I can see that. Wargames require a lot investment. I just hope that if they do that they don't make the victory/defeat conditions the collapse of the entire game world. Unless they are ready for that change. Nothing engenders fans like having an army disappear after having bought in heavily. I seem to recall another game that did something similar with one of their clans. The idea of a Sci - Fi "army size" game is baffling at the 28mm scale. "We can raze continents, but today we only brought our small guns. 20 of them. " The "Army" scale moniker in gaming has always made me laugh (especially at larger than 11mm). Army size engagements would have hundreds of troops and combat vehicles. Even 40k is at best a company sized game (and even then only with certain armies, i.e. Imperial Guard, Orks, etc). Not excited about this one at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Nothing engenders fans like having an army disappear after having bought in heavily. I seem to recall another game that did something similar with one of their clans. That was that card game, right? I can't imagine a company making a miniatures game would be foolish enough to do that, given the time, effort and money involved in getting a painted army ready! (Well, except maybe a certain big one, but then there's always rumours they'll abandon old armies) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathnard Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 I personally think that 28mm is a great scale for skirmish, but when you get to army-sized games you get to two issues - the cost of getting enough models, and the difficulty in representing vehicles/tanks etc in a proper scale. The cost of plastics is something I probably can't comment on with any authority. Everyone tends to agree that GW charges a premium for their plastics, but there are plenty of other plastic kits (historical minis, especially), that give you quite a few models for your dollar. So maybe Wyrd can produce this game at 28mm in a way it's affordable? Honestly, I wouldn't know. In any case, I think the smaller scales (6/10/15mm) work better for army size games. You can get more models in (both cost wise and in fitting them on a table), the scale becomes more believable (especially for things like artillery ranges or aircraft), and getting them painted just feels more achievable. Not having to directly compete with 40k is another plus. The system may be on the decline (IMO at least), but it's still the juggernaut in the room. If Wyrd make a 28mm army game I'll almost definitely give it a shot because I have faith in the company. But I know what sort of game I'd prefer to see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagisman Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 I'd say I'd be up for a game of 20-60 models. Small squads. I don't want to get to 40k levels. Where I have over 100 models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 At 28mm scale, at a model count similar to 40k, and set in a science fiction universe (albeit hard scifi), I can't see how it would avoid competition with 40k. I have a tremendous amount of trust in Wyrd to pull off whatever they put their energy toward, but I'd prefer to see them develop products for less saturated sectors of the tabletop wargame market. I really want to be excited for Ruined Planet, but it just doesn't sound particularly interesting or original. When Mack first mentioned that he was working on another major project on one of the Malifaux podcasts, I hoped that Wyrd might be working on a fantasy game, which with the decline of WHFB is becoming an underrepresented setting. I imagined a round-based, non block infantry, large skirmish scale game played with alternating activations in a very Wyrd fantasy setting. I suppose that might sound like it would compete with Hordes/Warmachine, but that setting is so far from Tolkienesque fantasy that I think there's plenty for room for a grittier, less technological fantasy skirmish game. Maybe I just prefer fantasy to science fiction.Have you seen ArcWorlde? They had a succesful Kickstarter campaign and the release of the minis is imminent. The rules will be in open beta this summer.That was that card game, right?L5R, to be precise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 That was that card game, right? I can't imagine a company making a miniatures game would be foolish enough to do that, given the time, effort and money involved in getting a painted army ready! (Well, except maybe a certain big one, but then there's always rumours they'll abandon old armies) Rumors hell, Games Workshop has abandoned armies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 I personally think that 28mm is a great scale for skirmish, but when you get to army-sized games you get to two issues - the cost of getting enough models, and the difficulty in representing vehicles/tanks etc in a proper scale. Vehicles aren't the only thing difficult to represent in 28mm scale, firearms and artillery (especially modern and future tech) are notorious for an utter lack of realism in gaming (ranges and grenades are the two biggest violators). There are very few games that have even attempted to represent these things in any real sort of manner. After having seen tens of thousands of hand grenades go off they lose that "Hollywood Luster". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emberlost Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I like Dropzone Commander, and think it's a good scale for sci-fi warfare. But it had a brief flare of popularity here and seems to have faded away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkion Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Personally, I'd love to see something 15mm scale. Flames of War with Space Marines just feels right to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenton Crack Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Vehicles aren't the only thing difficult to represent in 28mm scale, firearms and artillery (especially modern and future tech) are notorious for an utter lack of realism in gaming (ranges and grenades are the two biggest violators). There are very few games that have even attempted to represent these things in any real sort of manner. The only one that comes to mind as realistic weapon ranges in 28mm was the rules for Relic Knights (or at least in the beta rules). As I recall, ranged weapons only needed LOS, without even bothering to have a measurement, as they conceded any of the weapons can shoot further than the board could be made to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 The only one that comes to mind as realistic weapon ranges in 28mm was the rules for Relic Knights (or at least in the beta rules). As I recall, ranged weapons only needed LOS, without even bothering to have a measurement, as they conceded any of the weapons can shoot further than the board could be made to be. Mercs has a similar policy with regards to rifles. Pistols, shotguns and flame throwers obviously have much shorter ranges (as they should). My only real gripe with Mercs though was how they handled grenades, they aren't nearly as awesome in real life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixelante Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 My company level games are Warhammer Fantasy and 40K and I've no interest in getting a new game. While Games Workshop market share has been chipped away by various skimish level games such as Malifaux, Infinity and Warmachine (though that is more platoon level). I have yet to see a fantasy or sci-fi army scale game have the same success as the twin flagships of GW. Even companies like Mantic Miniatures are in reality just a 3rd party source of miniatures for those two systems. But hey, all power to Wyrd if they can pull this off. They will need to have a solid ruleset though to do it. Nice looking miniatures will only go so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Footman Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 That was that card game, right? I can't imagine a company making a miniatures game would be foolish enough to do that, given the time, effort and money involved in getting a painted army ready! (Well, except maybe a certain big one, but then there's always rumours they'll abandon old armies) Squats will return one day.. probably once gw goes under and someone else buys the IP personally i like the sounds of this, I always liked 40k, just havent gotten the chance to play as often lately as most of the people i used to play are currently focused on other games, and i can never get down to the local gaming store for their 40k nights setting sounds interesting and I like how the story wwill progress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Anything new about this game ? Where there some infos spread on GenCon ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrouchingMoose Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Anything new about this game ? Where there some infos spread on GenCon ? I didn't see anything about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeregrineFalcon Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 I didn't see anything about it. The guy who 'announced it' doesn't work for Wyrd anymore, and is just a freelancer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 My favorite setting for sci-fi was Mutant Chronicles (Warzone 1st ed. on the tabletop) back in the 90ies. A gritty, over-the-top world, but the scale was great (solar system exploration), and if it had good players around the table it could be balanced and provide great moments. At a point it was a popular alternative to 40k around here (and i am sure around europe as well). But then it collapsed as the competitive scene couldn't hold together due to balance issues plaguing the system...and it faded into the void. Few probably even remember it nowadays. Army style game? Not really interested anymore. Also, I'd be curious at the amount of energy needed to push that kind of game, considering the cost for the company and players. Imho, Malifaux is an excellent flagship...but at that point would the focus be aimed toward that game (by necessity due to investment)? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeleteAccount Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 After seeing how cheap the TtB plastics are, I can really see a company sci fi game working for the company. So yeah, I'd love to see Ruined Planet be fished back up, though I'd wait another year before dedicating any real resources to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Shine Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Hoping for 10mm, cause after moving from 40k to DZC you kind of see that the scale matters for army sized games and not having to devote a floor of your house to wargaming 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeleteAccount Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Hoping for 10mm, cause after moving from 40k to DZC you kind of see that the scale matters for army sized games and not having to devote a floor of your house to wargaming The standard 32 mm can get the job done as long as it's a warmachine scale. I mean, what I'd want is a company skirmish game, not full on war, though in that case, I agree a smaller scale is the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathnard Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 All I can say is that I'd personally like to play a large-scale army game, but only if it's 6-10mm scale. Reason being is that it'd be both cheaper to collect and easier to represent a decent-sized force for. Right now (and once I get some regular opponents/time) Dropzone Commander is filling that gap for me, but I'd love to see what Wyrd would do with a game of that scale. It's not a small endevour though, since they'd be designing the whole thing from scratch and they seem to be pretty tied up with bringing M2E up to speed again. So even assuming they're working on such a project now, it would be a good few years before they release. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.