Soul battery sucks (in vanilla Leveticus)

[KID55]

So, I have one idea how can I use Soul Battery in Leveticus crew, and that was abuse Execute with Alyce (stone for and as a bonus). And this works fine but require a lot of stones, so it's not OP. BUT! Except of this it can only:

1) Heal 1 wound with - good, but used at start of activation, so if you want to heal your models, you are tied to Battery

2) Sacrifice itself as a bonus - sometimes can be useful, but not really

3) Allow another model to cheat from top deck for one wound - I tried it many times and this SO UNSTABLE so I think it worth only if it free. For 1 heals it's useless

4) Make interact 🙃

Attacks - just forget it. In close combat it will just die. For ranged attack it doesn't work with vanilla Leveticus.

I think it just not fair, because Linch1 and Linch2, both can use Brilliance tokens. And for Leveticus only L2 can get some profit.

 

I think this model should be changed. There are some thoughts:
Excess Power should be at the end of activation, that other models would be not tied to it. And maybe make it bigger pulse. But even with effect at the end of activation would more usefull.

Give it something that vanilla Leveticus can use (or something general) with action, ability or trigger:

- Friendly Amalgam model can add to their duel total until End Phase

OR

- Friendly models in can get Focused+1

OR

- Something for card draw

OR

- When friendly Leveticus uses his Demise abitily, he heals +2 Health more and end any comditions on his choise

What is your experience with this model and what you think?

[Azahul]

Yeah, it's not a useful model.

 

Personally I'd be inclined to rework it. Cut most of its existing rules and give it a rule that lets friendly soulstone users spend its health as if they were soulstones. Make it actually feel like a battery.

 

At absolute minimum it should be the Battery spending health to have another model cheat off the top of the deck, not the much more important and expensive model.

[Jinn]

Terrible in Lynch as well, would love a rework.

[KID55]

After disscussion in local chat I have another idea: swap both current bonus actions with this

For me it seems much more usefull.

10 hours ago, Azahul said:

Cut most of its existing rules and give it a rule that lets friendly soulstone users spend its health as if they were soulstones.

This also seems legit.

[Zebo]

Maybe a rule that Friendly Leveticus can treat Soul Battery as a friendly Hollow Waif. 

[SEV]

If change fate was not Ennemy only, I would happily play him in Levihorse. 

[KID55]

6 hours ago, SEV said:

If change fate was not Ennemy only, I would happily play him in Levihorse. 

That would be huge, but only for Leveticus2. Vanilla still struggle

[KID55]

So, I played few more games with Soul Battery (vanilla Leveticus) and again the only useful stuff was his aura that gives +flip (and healing at the start of activation, one time).

My thoughts still the same:
1) cut both current bonuses and give Amplify - that makes SB usefull not only in Horse Crew, and also bust Rusty Alice. Right now she struggle from friendly fire/consealment and you can't support her with scavengers everytime.
2) change healing from start of the activation to end of the activation.

And maaaaaay be give it's range attack not only 1 dmg, but 1 dmg + distracted+1.

[Jordon]

I completely agree. I play a lot of Levi2 and I've tried to get it to work several times but now I've relegated it to the shelf. It's quite bad with Levi2 but its simply dreadful for Levi1. At 4ss your much better off hiring the Effigy who can also heal and add stones but much more efficiently.  

I like the idea of using its health as a resource. Seems to tie into the theme of Amalgam. Suffering 2 irreducible damage to act as a soulstone is really cool. I would +1 this idea by allowing to suffer 2 irreducible to also count as a fate token or brilliance. Giving it universal appeal to each master. 

Maybe giving it a way to heal when living models die to tie into this mechanic. 

[Brilliance Laced Whiskey]

I don't know about a 4 point model acting as a soulstone cache ala Lohith. 

 

However, I think  the idea of it healing up by the death of nearby models.

 

But I really like the  harvesting its life for fate/brilliance.  However, 2 irreducible for 1 brilliance is a bit steep.  2 irreducible for 1 fate token seems fair, but maybe 1 irreducible for 1 brilliance, up to 2 would be the way to go.

Jakob 1 would appreciate the help with the current state of the meta.

[KID55]

I'm still eating the cactus and try it with Levi1. Absolute crap... ONLY ONE OPTION to use - make Alyce-execute-turret. But it requires A LOT OF soulstones. And quite situational, because Alyce now is very mediocre model.

[Jesy Blue]

So I've found a use for Soul Battery in Outcast Syndicate.
I Force Distracted on Rook on turn 1.
With a couple of shenanigans I can have Distracted +10 in 3 activations, which should last him the whole game.

[KID55]

Henchman as leader, Battery OOK just for buffing one model) Interesting)

 

[Thatguy]

On 11/19/2022 at 2:40 PM, KID55 said:

And quite situational, because Alyce now is very mediocre model

Interesting. I still think of Alyce as one of the best shooting models in the game. 

[KID55]

 

1 hour ago, Thatguy said:

Interesting. I still think of Alyce as one of the best shooting models in the game. 

She has no self support for her shooting.

No any ignores (Armor, incorporeal, friendly fire, cover, consealment etc.).

No self-focusing.

No out-of-engagement movement.

No easy access to fast.

 

Friendly fire is a main problem - her own crew more focused on at close combat, so you always need to support her with, for example scavenger, but even this is not enough. She even may not run out of engagement with move 4. Almost all other scary shooters have MV 5 or options to run away. Or other self buffs.

Hans can ignore FF, consealment and cover

Mad Dog can destroy cover, easy self fast and ignore Armor. Plus with grit he has built-in+flips

Other bandits have built-in+flips

Tunder archers just crazy for their cost: ignore FF and consealment, can add blasts with possible free focus, 6-8 stat, can make DMG irreducible

Nino ignore FF, has built-in+ on attack and quick retreat

Huntsmans can have +flip on attack

And so on. As I see, shooters in most cases are able to ignore, or easy negate two most problematic things for them: consealment and FF. But Alyce should spent focus on it each time. So she spent actions AND she needs side support (only one is not enough), yes, she shoot hard, but she cannot to make full output because she constantly need:

1) take a lot of focuses

2) move to negate consealment (there is a lot of consealment, some strategy markers provide it and at least in my meta there is a lot of models who can create it) with MV 4 it not that easy

Yes, she has rapid fire, but it cost a card. And with action spent on a focus, there are only 2 shots (and second one can be really weak if you don't have another focus, from scavenger for example) so, when peoples say that she always shoot 3 times... that's just not true.

And she also should spend card for her wierd healing.

And she cost 9.

So, I don't count her as bad model. But she definitely not great. Mad Dog is great. This is why you often see him (for 11 SS) with Levi that his own hanchman for 9. She is mediocre, IMO

[Brilliance Laced Whiskey]

The thing about the current Alyce is she is pretty much is required to have a baby sitter, which effectively makes her as expensive as a Master, and I am just not sure she quite lives up to those standards.  But don't get me wrong, there are times where she can really shine depending on the foe, but being movement 4 can make that really hard to happen.

 

I think at the end of the day she is just kinda... meh.  I think we can all agree the M6 was too good, but the shift to M4 was a bit too much.

 

Would I pick Alyce with a Scavenger over Mad Dog or Parker?  Probably not.  You can take her with a Student of Conflict, but then again, I am not sure it's worth it when you could just take something else.

 

With SoDP and the Emissary you can probably get her working pretty good.

[KID55]

Agreed. But with SoDP she becomes 11 SS (as Mad Dog OOK) and still has lack of mobility, because she need it in a middle of the game, not only at start. I think to trz her with wanted criminal. But yes now she are meh. MV 4 is just sucks

[Brilliance Laced Whiskey]

It doesn't help with that if you take the Emissary that you'll want Mad Dog to go with him as he can just eat the scheme marker dropped by Emissary to get fast.  He kinda just relegates Alyce to an afterthought in just about every situation.

[KID55]

I know, but on some tables can more or less solve her mobility problems

 

[Zebo]

Alyce was neefed the most with Scavenger's nerf

[Thatguy]

On 11/21/2022 at 1:09 AM, KID55 said:

No any ignores (Armor, incorporeal, friendly fire, cover, consealment etc.).

She ignores hard to wound. 

Maybe my area has less concealment than normal, but Rusty does well.  

On 11/21/2022 at 1:09 AM, KID55 said:

Mad Dog can destroy cover, easy self fast and ignore Armor. Plus with grit he has built-in+flips

I agree that Mad Dog is better. But pretty much every shooting model in the game looks bad next to Mad Dog. 

[KID55]

On 12/2/2022 at 6:40 AM, Thatguy said:

She ignores hard to wound. 

Right. But with min damage 3 HtW not such problem. FF and consealment is the main problem. And there are very few ways, how Alyce can handle this:
1) Always had focus - spent her own actions to concentrate or both scavengers always babysitting her

2) Give out adversary - Stalker can do it, but you need to hire him. 8 stones and you need to activate him earlier to get max output from adversary. Without demise he not very tough and die easily. Plus, I think nekropunks fits better in most situations.

3) Use soul battery to get +flips when you use stones - you need to hire crappy model and keep a bunch of stones for Alyce.

 

So, all this ways are valid, but they are pretty expensive. And I don't think that this is good, when you have to put so much effort to make 9-ss hanchman effective. Not super effective, just effective. Previously, with mv 6, all cons was compensated with fact that she could rich almost any point of table (with fast from scavenger, that was also cut off), and drop marker/make interact/just have a good posotion for shooting. Now she is much less mobile, for fast you need student OOK, and she still has all her problems with shooting. I think AT LEAST she should ignore Friendly Fire, because her keyword beaters tend to be in close combat. And her own melee attack is quite average in comporasion with Leveticus, A&D and desolation engine (and with herself in m2e, but that was too long ago...).

[Zebo]

I mean, with Mv 6 nobody complained about her not ignoring FF, concealment etc. She was universally valued as OP. 

 

I don't think that is suddenly a problem, IMHO. I think she's fine. 

 

Although maybe what did of her OP wasn't the mv 6, but the Scavenger giving her focus+fast.

[admiralvorkraft]

I just think models should have weaknesses. Alyce is in a good place. She's very impactful if you use her well, but there's counterplay available.

[Thatguy]

15 hours ago, Zebo said:

I mean, with Mv 6 nobody complained about her not ignoring FF, concealment etc. She was universally valued as OP.

This is a good point. They nerfed to movement because with MV 6 she could disengage and shoot whatever was trying to lock her down in the face twice.

I think if she was ineffective she probably wouldn't need nerfing at all. It wasn't like you were using her as a scheme runner when necropunks were an option. 

Even with the Mv 4 she's got a 16" threat range with two clockwork seeker shots.