Harlekin Posted March 14, 2021 Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 1 minute ago, admiralvorkraft said: You both think you're the beatdown and one of you is wrong. I'd even say: _at least_ one of you is wrong. That said we return to one of the Wishes for GG2 statements: less killy Strats & Schemes would be nice for GG2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooshawn Posted March 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 Nothing you said contradicts what I said, and I completely agree with you. That doesn't change the fact that he and his models are below the curve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooshawn Posted March 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 He would be fine if we had pools and strats based on scheme markers, but we don't . Even then he still isn't up to where he should be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regelridderen Posted March 14, 2021 Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 8 hours ago, ooshawn said: That's not what was explained to me. still better though. And a point cheaper. It's entirely possible you are right though Then what you got wasn’t a lesson in rules, but in taking advice over references to the rulebook Page 32 will tell you all you need to know about the Replace mechanic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted March 14, 2021 Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 6 hours ago, admiralvorkraft said: Judging by the forums "the way gg1 is played" is mostly...poorly. If you're having a scrum in the center of the board one of the two of you is playing bad Malifaux. You both think you're the beatdown and one of you is wrong. Lucius is bad in a head-on engagement so focus on fundamentals, work the terrain to your advantage, bully your opponent's schemers, win on points. I don't know that this is necessarily true. There is some variance in Malifaux, so you both could be assessing that you have a 50/50 shot of winning a fight in the middle. And you could be correct. In general, yes, though, people overestimate the importance of controlling the centre in a lot of pools. There was a whole thread on it xD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mycellanious Posted March 14, 2021 Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 12 hours ago, Harlekin said: I'd even say: _at least_ one of you is wrong. That said we return to one of the Wishes for GG2 statements: less killy Strats & Schemes would be nice for GG2 Tbh I dont think we have very many killy-schemes and strats: Strat (2/4): Public Enemies, Recover Evidence I personally think the split between these strats exists because Wyrd wanted to give shooting crews a boost because they were quite bad in GG0, and killing a model from 12" away makes it easier to not get killed back. Scheme (3/13): Assassinate, Vendetta, Let Them Bleed. That's honestly quite low. I think the serious problem in GG1, is that there are a MASSIVE amount of schemes that you DENY by just killing your opponent: (5/13) Breakthrough, Take Prisoner, Claim Jump, Vendetta, Hidden Martyr, Catch and Release have an active component that needs you to kill an enemy model to deny them a point (4/13) Let Them Bleed, Spread Them Out, Runic Binding, Leave Your Mark become next to impossible for your opponent to score if you just kill them because they are so AP heavy (LYM is impossible for your opponent to score if you just take a beat down crew and camp the center) So a while 3 schemes this season are scored by killing, 9/13 schemes this season are DENIED by killing your opponent. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted March 14, 2021 Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 6 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said: In general, yes, though, people overestimate the importance of controlling the centre in a lot of pools. There was a whole thread on it xD I think it's more than overvaluing the center - though that's a huge THING in the current mindset - but assuming that there's going to be a big fight somewhere that you have to win. And you just don't. You may have to manage one or two hyper mobile, hyper aggressive models, or play around shooting but you really don't need to engage in a stand up fight if you don't want to. Idk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooshawn Posted March 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 well the thing is that several schemes revolve around the center, and most of the strats are killing so, people play brick crews and just march across the board to murder you. which is also why stuff like lucius is extra bad, because not only can he not kill those models, but he can't get to the places he needs to to scheme without giving up strategy points. In this edition pitching cards to put the enemy on a - to hit is bad. Like awful. The new focus is just too strong vs this defense mechanic. all it does is cause you to lose a card , and soon a model. They focus and then your model always dies in the same round because it has 5-6 hp, giving up a strat point. Lucius in keyword is just awful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooshawn Posted March 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 2 hours ago, Mycellanious said: Tbh I dont think we have very many killy-schemes and strats: Strat (2/4): Public Enemies, Recover Evidence I personally think the split between these strats exists because Wyrd wanted to give shooting crews a boost because they were quite bad in GG0, and killing a model from 12" away makes it easier to not get killed back. Scheme (3/13): Assassinate, Vendetta, Let Them Bleed. That's honestly quite low. I think the serious problem in GG1, is that there are a MASSIVE amount of schemes that you DENY by just killing your opponent: (5/13) Breakthrough, Take Prisoner, Claim Jump, Vendetta, Hidden Martyr, Catch and Release have an active component that needs you to kill an enemy model to deny them a point (4/13) Let Them Bleed, Spread Them Out, Runic Binding, Leave Your Mark become next to impossible for your opponent to score if you just kill them because they are so AP heavy (LYM is impossible for your opponent to score if you just take a beat down crew and camp the center) So a while 3 schemes this season are scored by killing, 9/13 schemes this season are DENIED by killing your opponent. this man gets it. it doesn't matter how good you are at dropping scheme markers if you're crew dies instantly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corwin Posted March 14, 2021 Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 I personally love Lucius and will take him into any game. To the point where I have to talk myself into playing a different master for a game. I have won several games with killing 0 or one model so killing doesn't have to be the only way to play. He excels at extra movement and out of activation actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esqulax Posted March 14, 2021 Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 17 minutes ago, Corwin said: I personally love Lucius and will take him into any game. To the point where I have to talk myself into playing a different master for a game. I have won several games with killing 0 or one model so killing doesn't have to be the only way to play. He excels at extra movement and out of activation actions. I am curious, how does your average crew look approximately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadhouse Posted March 14, 2021 Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 I like Lucius too, I think he misses being great by a trigger or 2 on Issue Command and one higher stat on Hidden Sniper. His true "core" of models, imo, is a pair of Lawyers with AP. Thats *minimum* 4 cards drawn, assuming you Issue Command both of them, and 2 cycled each turn with the opportunity to draw more via Surge on Impassioned Defense or Obey chaining. Being able to pitch a card to put your opponent on a neg isn't the worst tech ever. You get to trade one of your cards for one of their AP assuming they had to focus to be able to go to a straight flip. If they've got Shielded there is very little that can actually one shot them, most of their survivability comes from the fact that their main action is 12" range which, alot of the time, is also moving what they're targeting. Lucius certainly isn't easy to play and you have to avoid playing the card draw minigame, but he is extremely flexible in both game plan and list building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corwin Posted March 14, 2021 Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 3 hours ago, esqulax said: I am curious, how does your average crew look approximately? Lucius Scheme (Neverborn) Size: 50 - Pool: 2 Leader: Lucius Mattheson Totem(s): The Scribe Hires: Doppleganger Mature Nephilim Inhuman Reflexes Changeling Ancient Pact Changeling 2 Ancient Pact Guild Lawyer Agent 46 This or a variety of something like this is a fairly standard list I run with him. This is definitely not the list I would try for a no kill win. Lucius goes around with a changeling 5 inches ahead and to either side of him. Pump up the Mature, the Doppelganger, and Agent 46 so they can do the heavy lifting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooshawn Posted March 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 I'd hate to see what Leveticus would do to that crew after he killed the mature in a single turn and then proceeds to run through that crew killing 1-2 models a turn without losing anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooshawn Posted March 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 yes , lucius absolutely needs more triggers on issue command and +1 stat to hidden sniper and maybe the ram built in , otherwise it hardly ever competes with issue command. Then I think that his crew need to lose some HP and make pitching a card a double negative flip so it still has counterplay by blasts or shockwaves, and isn't completely negated by focus or some other way to make it impossible to get to a straight flip. Because they are just too squishy and every model spends the first turn getting focus and it only takes one hard hit and they are done. Rip if they have any models that have a way to get + to hit outside of focus, your themed models are actually just paper weights at that point. or even let them pitch a card per - Flip so you are giving up resources to keep a model alive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadhouse Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 1 hour ago, ooshawn said: I'd hate to see what Leveticus would do to that crew after he killed the mature in a single turn and then proceeds to run through that crew killing 1-2 models a turn without losing anything Positioning is part of the game. Leve is Mv5 without Unimpeded or another way to move himself, though he'll often have Herald due to Servant. Matures are Mv6 Flying and have Fly with Me. You can engage him from 6"(walk)+6"(Fly with Me place w/base size)+6"(charge)+2"(engagement). Leve DOES NOT want to be in Melee with a Mature. Now he has to spend an AP to Disengage and he can't 2 shot it with his gun, even with a pair of Severes. Now that I'm thinking about it, how is he 1 rounding it? Melee? You know he can't cheat to hit right? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 3 hours ago, ooshawn said: I'd hate to see what Leveticus would do to that crew after he killed the mature in a single turn and then proceeds to run through that crew killing 1-2 models a turn without losing anything I wish I had your luck with cards, 3 hits doing severe moderate moderate, or severe severe weak is pretty lucky even if you have a positive flip to damage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corwin Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 I love hidden sniper, give it +1 stat and a built in ram would make it incredible. I use it more in guild with Expert Marksman but I've used it in NB when the opportunity provides. Hitting a big beater top of two with two high rams you carried over dealing 8+ damage and giving it injured 2+ make it pretty easy to mop up after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
touchdown Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 17 minutes ago, Adran said: I wish I had your luck with cards, 3 hits doing severe moderate moderate, or severe severe weak is pretty lucky even if you have a positive flip to damage and no inhuman reflexes on the mature or Levi is getting that damage with no cheating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooshawn Posted March 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 that's not even bringing rusty alyce into the equation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooshawn Posted March 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 or mad dog brachett charging with fast and hitting from 13 inches away with focus, dropping 4 damage blasts on your crew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooshawn Posted March 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 And once that mature dies, as the toughest thing on your team, you're whole crew pretty much dies by the end of turn 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooshawn Posted March 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 I don't care what lucius crew you play, you have no chance versus this crew. it's literally impossible to win New Leveticus Crew (Outcasts) Size: 50 - Pool: 5 Leader: Leveticus Servant of Dark Powers Totem(s): Hollow Waif Hollow Waif 2 Hires: Rusty Alyce Mad Dog Brackett Ashes and Dust Marlena Webster Prospector References: Abomination Ashen Core Dust Storm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corwin Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 1 minute ago, ooshawn said: And once that mature dies, as the toughest thing on your team, you're whole crew pretty much dies by the end of turn 3 That has not been my experience with this crew but I haven't faced many outcasts this edition so good to know about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corwin Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 Just now, ooshawn said: I don't care what lucius crew you play, you have no chance versus this crew. it's literally impossible to win New Leveticus Crew (Outcasts) Size: 50 - Pool: 5 Leader: Leveticus Servant of Dark Powers Totem(s): Hollow Waif Hollow Waif 2 Hires: Rusty Alyce Mad Dog Brackett Ashes and Dust Marlena Webster Prospector References: Abomination Ashen Core Dust Storm What are the SS and what does the board look like. Blanket statement like that are fairly pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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