English Ivan (Umbra/DUA Keywords) Discussion

[Maniacal_cackle]

15 minutes ago, Mikes said:

 

A gentleman will walk but never run.

They just pop out of the shadows 6" away xD

[Mikes]

Sting has no problem with that but couldn't find a rhyme for it.

[HomelessOne]

As noted, English Ivan and his crew are recurring characters in the wider fiction. For those not familiar with him, here's the Breachside Broadcast ep of their debut, as originally posted in our Gencon thread by Jesy Blue:

It's one of my favorite stories from 1e, so I think it is certainly worth a read/listen if you're even vaguely curious.

[Sarah Cole]

2 hours ago, HomelessOne said:

As noted, English Ivan and his crew are recurring characters in the wider fiction. For those not familiar with him, here's the Breachside Broadcast ep of their debut, as originally posted in our Gencon thread by Jesy Blue:

It's one of my favorite stories from 1e, so I think it is certainly worth a read/listen if you're even vaguely curious.

I came to Malifaux late enough that I knew English Ivan was going to be a Master when I listened to that, and it got me so excited. It's such a fun little heist story and fits in perfectly with the rest of the lore.

[HomelessOne]

Lo, I was busy putting up my Christmas tree when I noticed my reflection was instead typing away, updating the original post.

[Kevinsmith101]

My plan is to run this list in a game next week. 

I think the broken specter could be difficult to summon and prefer the deava for the place attack. I know the rex seems stupid but its tail lash is a move dual and can be mimicked, combining this with black soulstone  and the keywords heavy applications of staggered im thinking this could apply plenty of hand pressure to the point with evas discard on her attack and her shared ability with corvis to make them discard a card to hit accurately, im keen to give it a go!!! 

[Peturd]

For those who haven’t read the other thread this was posted in!!

[HomelessOne]

Incidentally, the "artifact that produced darkness" that inadvertently granted Ivan his new powers is presumably the same one from Slaughter at Stone Hill. Which would in turn make Ivan and Gretchen the unnamed characters from the aforementioned story's epilogue. The opening fiction here, Round Table, even has her refer to "loaning" him an artifact from the Bayou.

[Ming]

21 hours ago, HomelessOne said:

Incidentally, the "artifact that produced darkness" that inadvertently granted Ivan his new powers is presumably the same one from Slaughter at Stone Hill. Which would in turn make Ivan and Gretchen the unnamed characters from the aforementioned story's epilogue. The opening fiction here, Round Table, even has her refer to "loaning" him an artifact from the Bayou.

Where can I find this story?

never mind, found it. However, it was Ngaatoro, not Ivan speaking with Janus.

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Ming

[HomelessOne]

Slaughter at Stone Hill is the third and final story in 3's The Bayou faction book. It is primarily stars Ulix, and an Explorer's Society hopeful that wants to investigate some bayou ruins that a Gremlin clan are squatting in.

Round Table is the first story in the Explorer's Society faction book. It's a introductory look at many of the faction's Masters, but is primarily focused on the organization's enigmatic leader Gretchen Janus and hints of what her aspirations really are.

[Whut]

So for the past 5ish days I've been calling the Keyword "DOO-AH" to myself like some idiot until I realized it's much more likely to be D.U.A.

What does DUA stand for? I assume its Detective U? Association since all the Doo-ah models look very detective-y

[Hooloovoo]

Department of Ungentlemanly Affairs

[Maniacal_cackle]

17 minutes ago, Whut said:

So for the past 5ish days I've been calling the Keyword "DOO-AH" to myself like some idiot until I realized it's much more likely to be D.U.A.

What does DUA stand for? I assume its Detective U? Association since all the Doo-ah models look very detective-y

As said above, Department of Ungentlemanly Affairs.

If it helps, I STILL read it as "Dead Upon Arrival" and get confused when some of the models are living...

[HomelessOne]

On 12/6/2020 at 6:11 PM, Ming said:

never mind, found it. However, it was Ngaatoro, not Ivan speaking with Janus.

Ah, I think you're right. I took Gretchen's "you know what to do" like a directive to go retrieve the artifact himself, but the whole scene does read more sensibly as talking to her right-hand man.

On another topic, what's listbuilding looking like in your theoryfaux? Of if anybody, like playtesters, have some real game experience to share. Like Kevinsmith01 was saying above, WP6 is just rare enough that I'd worry about betting on being able to summon Brocken Spectres in any given match. But then Ivan's summoning is just limited enough that I wonder if the "take an elite crew, summon to make up the difference" concept will work for DUA/Umbra?

[Korrok]

25 minutes ago, HomelessOne said:

Ah, I think you're right. I took Gretchen's "you know what to do" like a directive to go retrieve the artifact himself, but the whole scene does read more sensibly as talking to her right-hand man.

On another topic, what's listbuilding looking like in your theoryfaux? Of if anybody, like playtesters, have some real game experience to share. Like Kevinsmith01 was saying above, WP6 is just rare enough that I'd worry about betting on being able to summon Brocken Spectres in any given match. But then Ivan's summoning is just limited enough that I wonder if the "take an elite crew, summon to make up the difference" concept will work for DUA/Umbra?

Generally speaking I feel the daeva are arguably a better summon than the brocken anyway.  From my experience with the crew the daeva are obviously more likely to be an option and frankly provide alot of efficiency for the crew. You could easily drop a Shockwave next to a target you want to attack to give it concealment, summon a daeva(free attack from daeva), then smack em for a min 3 and give them staggard. The daeva just existing is a threat to the model its engaging, and generally makes it easier to take down for your other models as well. 

[Ming]

27 minutes ago, HomelessOne said:

Ah, I think you're right. I took Gretchen's "you know what to do" like a directive to go retrieve the artifact himself, but the whole scene does read more sensibly as talking to her right-hand man.

On another topic, what's listbuilding looking like in your theoryfaux? Of if anybody, like playtesters, have some real game experience to share. Like Kevinsmith01 was saying above, WP6 is just rare enough that I'd worry about betting on being able to summon Brocken Spectres in any given match. But then Ivan's summoning is just limited enough that I wonder if the "take an elite crew, summon to make up the difference" concept will work for DUA/Umbra?

I usually hired all the named DUA characters, since they are very good, a spectre with Hidden Agenda and an upgraded effigy. I believe I also tried hiring an operative. Overall it’s a good keyword which doesn’t need OOK models due to Ungentlemanly Affairs.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Anyone else notice that the totem can charge the Brocken Spectre, fail the duel and get a distracted (to give to Ivan)?

Another neat trick in the crew to gain free distracted for Ivan.

EDIT: Oh, need a low mask to do it though.

[Sweet Tooth]

20 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Anyone else notice that the totem can charge the Brocken Spectre, fail the duel and get a distracted (to give to Ivan)?

Another neat trick in the crew to gain free distracted for Ivan.

EDIT: Oh, need a low mask to do it though.

Wouldn’t you actually need to flip for both models if the Brocken doesn’t want to take any damage? That doesn’t seem as easy as tossing a low mask (just ask my runaways who survive most of Cooper’s initial shots on them). Course if you do this near Ivan to heal the Brocken then it’s totally a clutch move if you can do it to stack that Distracted. 

[Whut]

When list building I consistently find myself "If you give a mouse a cookie"-ing into taking all or nearly all of the DUA models, just because they work so well together.

Well, I'm playing DUA/Umbra, so I have Ivan and Mordrake. I can't pass up on taking Eva, she's just too good. And now as if Ivan and Mordrake alone wasn't enough for me to take Gibson, Eva seals that deal. Now that I have Gibson passing out Distracted+2 to all DUA on first turn (and again later) and I'll be putting a lot of hand pressure on my opponent with all these models, I might as well take Rook to completely obliterate the opposing hand and/or Execute some stuff. Huh.... well now that I have Ivan, Eva, and Rook who will be dropping scheme markers near enemy models and Gibson giving Distracted, I gotta take an Operative, right?

[Maniacal_cackle]

6 minutes ago, Whut said:

When list building I consistently find myself "If you give a mouse a cookie"-ing into taking all or nearly all of the DUA models, just because they work so well together.

Well, I'm playing DUA/Umbra, so I have Ivan and Mordrake. I can't pass up on taking Eva, she's just too good. And now as if Ivan and Mordrake alone wasn't enough for me to take Gibson, Eva seals that deal. Now that I have Gibson passing out Distracted+2 to all DUA on first turn (and again later) and I'll be putting a lot of hand pressure on my opponent with all these models, I might as well take Rook to completely obliterate the opposing hand and/or Execute some stuff. Huh.... well now that I have Ivan, Eva, and Rook who will be dropping scheme markers near enemy models and Gibson giving Distracted, I gotta take an Operative, right?

Love it when synergy for a crew comes together!

[Whut]

20 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Love it when synergy for a crew comes together!

I love AND hate it. On the one hand, having very strong synergies is really good for obvious reasons. On the other hand, if the synergies really are THAT strong, I don't get to play around and field synergies this keyword has with the rest of the faction, and in cases where one of those choices are a no-brainer (say, a Botanist in Corrupted Ley Lines against Zipp) I now might have to remove a piece of this uber-synergy machine - which feels bad man.

Oh well, such is Malifaux

[Adran]

7 hours ago, HomelessOne said:

On another topic, what's listbuilding looking like in your theoryfaux? Of if anybody, like playtesters, have some real game experience to share. Like Kevinsmith01 was saying above, WP6 is just rare enough that I'd worry about betting on being able to summon Brocken Spectres in any given match. But then Ivan's summoning is just limited enough that I wonder if the "take an elite crew, summon to make up the difference" concept will work for DUA/Umbra?

This is all theory, but I think announcing Ivan as your leader gives your opponent something to think about in crew selection. They decide what models they hire, so they get to decide what WP they have on the table. 

Of course that relies on your opponent being flexible enough to completely change the list they play. I think WP 6 is common enough that most lists probably have someone with it as a default. Even if its just the master. And if they do go low wp to deny the summons, it makes Runic Siphon and Mechanical Firefly better.

But don't build a game plan that relies on you summoning a Brocken Spectre until after you have seen the lists. 

[Maogrim]

On 12/4/2020 at 2:41 AM, Peturd said:

For those who haven’t read the other thread this was posted in!!

Wait... The box is coming with a Master, a Totem, 3 Minions, a Henchman ... and an Enforcer??? That's unusual, right?! 

[Maniacal_cackle]

47 minutes ago, Adran said:

This is all theory, but I think announcing Ivan as your leader gives your opponent something to think about in crew selection. They decide what models they hire, so they get to decide what WP they have on the table. 

Of course that relies on your opponent being flexible enough to completely change the list they play. I think WP 6 is common enough that most lists probably have someone with it as a default. Even if its just the master. And if they do go low wp to deny the summons, it makes Runic Siphon and Mechanical Firefly better.

But don't build a game plan that relies on you summoning a Brocken Spectre until after you have seen the lists. 

That's a good point, especially as WP 7 is extremely tricky to land the summon against (even if you cheat a red joker, they can stop you from getting it off with their own red joker). Even WP 6, you're going to have to be pretty cautious that they don't use a 13 to beat your 12. Unless the crew has really good card draw, it's not going to be able to setup consistent Brockens.

Just checking one of my recent lists...

• Molly (wp 6, serene countenance)
• Necrotic machine (wp 4)
• Dead rider (wp 7)
• Rogue Necromancy (wp 5)
• Manos (wp 6, but can easily avoid Ivan if I so choose)
• Archie (wp 4)

So if facing Ivan, I imagine if I really wanted to stop him from summoning Brockens, it'd be pretty doable with the superior card advantage my crew has. Of course, it might be more effort than it is worth (and I'd probably just bring Vincent if I really cared about summons).

Still, demonstrates that Ivan's summons are definitely a thing that your opponent has to give you permission to do (which they probably will, since it is a lot of work to deny). But summoning Brockens requires the right cards in hand to win the duel against the critical target.

[Adran]

1 hour ago, Maogrim said:

Wait... The box is coming with a Master, a Totem, 3 Minions, a Henchman ... and an Enforcer??? That's unusual, right?! 

Yes, and no. I've not looked so closely at M3 box compositions, but even in M2E whilst the normal box was master, totem, Henchman and 3 minions, that was only about 54% of the boxes. I think M3 has a higher % that fit "normal", there are still plenty that fail. This is the same make up as Pandora's box. My personal guess is that it is in part based on how complicated the sculpts are, and how much space on a sprue.