Parallel History: Break up between M&SU and Arcanists

[Rufess]

Wyrd had mentioned, during the Gen Con Stream, that before they had chosen Explorer's Society as the 8th faction, they were once considering to split the M&SU from Arcanists to make them an independent faction.

I am very interested in this one. So what would happen if it had came true? Toni and Kaeris for sure would be the new leader. But how about the other masters?

Which side would Sandeep join?
Would Hoffman still coming to M&SU?
Would Marcus leaving completely and become a pure Neverborn master?
Would English Ivan still show up and join either side?
What other new masters we would see?

[Jesy Blue]

All existing masters go Arcanists except Ironsides & Mei Feng; newly arrived Hoffman logistically goes M&SU to balance things better, but thematically I enjoy the idea of him working with the terrorists and against the terrorists at the same time. 

I say leave Marcus Arcanists/Neverborn for now.  Might go full Neverborn in 4th edition.

Ivan can't be with Mei Feng yet, and bridging them across 2 factions, both alike in dignity, in fair Malifaux where we lay our scene, would be dope.

This would unfortunately make Frontier just Guild, but Wastral Ten Thunders/Arcanists.

With the current story climate, I can see the Freiholt story going differently and Freikorps becoming Outcast/M&SU as a more militant protector of the people, as a giant middle finger to the Governor-General.

If Apex came in still....no, Apex cannot come in here.  It doesn't not fit any of these factions in this climate.

With this weird direction and focus on magic in the Arcanists splinter cell, I could see Transmortis starting there instead of Ressers.

M&SU needs a charismatic street preacher.  An Obey master, who turns scheme markers into mobs of Malifaux Citizens (well call them Mob Tokens) who cause all models to be slowed around them, hampering activity as more and more Mobs of people clutter the table/town causing trouble for everyone, but members of this keyword, let's call them Shepards, can bonus action push Mob Markers around as they lead their flock from hot spot to hot spot.  (i just stream of consciousnessed this, hopefully it sounds good)

Then M&SU gets a street gang of protectors, like the Champions of New York, looking out for the every day citizen.  Just a crew of weak to mediocre models where everything is Plentiful 5 or more.  No summoning, no replacing, just a horde of about 20 models none of which is Insignificant because every man can make a difference!

[Adran]

I would put Marcus, rasputina and sandeep as arcanists. Hoffman, Mei and Toni would be M&SU. Colette and Kareis could be part of both factions, although for game balance I would expect only one to be duel faction, so probably Colette, with Kaeris abandoning her M&SU membership. Whilst English Ivan could have still been a new master, I imagine the rest of the crews would have been very different. 

Since I assume this was going on at the creation of M3 you may have changed some of those stories, so possibly keep McCabe in guild. 

I think the biggest change would have been the release. If you had to create the 8 th faction right in the first place, they might have juggled masters to only have 7 per faction at creation, and thus book would have been the masters to make the factions to 8. So we would probably only just be seeing Von Scthook, Basse, euripides and yoko. 

[dannydb]

id imagine you would have mei, ironsides, hoff on the M&su side, with marcus, raspy and kaeris being arcanist.  colette would be duel faction sandeep could join either side with vonstook joining the same side as sandeep being duel resser arcanist. Ivan would prob join mei on the M&SU side 

[touchdown]

14 hours ago, Jesy Blue said:

If Apex came in still....no, Apex cannot come in here.  It doesn't not fit any of these factions in this climate.

They'd fit outcasts but I don't know who you drop from outcasts to make room. It's really funny to imagine like the Freikorps unionizing and demanding better conditions from Von Schill though

[Rufess]

In fluff it was only reasonable if Hoffman join the M&SU, but in game-wise it was a good chance to split Hoffman and Ironsides, who are too similar to each others to be in the same faction.

And I missed the dual faction idea. Sandeep was a prefect choice to be the dual master between M&SU and Arcanists. Though no model in his keyword could fit in M&SU.

Also I completely forgot about Basse and McCabe. If McCabe would remain in Guild then there was no space for Basse. So McCabe probably go full Ten Thunder or might be handing out with M&SU. Because he might need help form some miners when doing archaeology. Imagine that McCabe handing out upgrades to SS Miner or the Swarm...

SO the list would be something like this:

M&SU: Toni, Hoffman, Sandeep, Mei Feng, (McCabe)

Arcanists: Kaeris, Rasp, Sandeep, Marcus

Uncertain: Colette, Ivan

So we still have room for about 6~7 new masters, which named character in lore or what types of master/keyword you would like to see? I am seeing Fitzs might be promoted to a summoning master who summon his people like Dashal.

16 hours ago, dannydb said:

vonstook joining the same side as sandeep being duel resser arcanist.

I am not familiar with Resser enough. What's the relationship between them?

6 hours ago, touchdown said:

They'd fit outcasts but I don't know who you drop from outcasts to make room. It's really funny to imagine like the Freikorps unionizing and demanding better conditions from Von Schill though

Zipp could stay in Bayou exclusively, he is not getting much from Outcasts anyway. It might be funny to put Cooper and Von Schill together on the table.

[solkan]

As far as I can tell, the natural schism in the Arcanists was more of "Do you care what happens to the front organization that was the MS&U?"

• Rasputina:  No.
• Marcus:  No.  Get off my mountains.
• Sandeep:  Was I actually a member?  
• Colette:  Probably not.  Who's in charge?
• Kaeris:  Don't I have a job there?
• Hoffman:  Probably.  Seems the proper thing to be interested in.
• Ironsides:  Yes, definitely.  I'm still fighting Kaeris, right?
• Mei Feng:  I'm certainly not being blackmailed to still be here...

but likewise the question "Do you still want to be a magical anarchist?" would be answered:

• Rasputina:  🥶
• Marcus:  👾
• Sandeep:  👳‍♂️
• Colette:  💃
• Kaeris:  🙋‍♀️
• Hoffman:  What?
• Ironsides:  I have responsibilities to my people.
• Mei Feng:  I have responsibilities to my people.

Granted, the thing about a 'story driven' game is that the authors of the story can pave through to whatever outcome they want, but it seems to me that that would be a naturally way for the split to occur without Ramos to hold the two together.

[dannydb]

6 hours ago, Rufess said:

 

I am not familiar with Resser enough. What's the relationship between them?

From memory vonstook was part of Sandeep story in broken promises, the worked together on something 

[Adran]

6 hours ago, Rufess said:

 

And I missed the dual faction idea. Sandeep was a prefect choice to be the dual master between M&SU and Arcanists. Though no model in his keyword could fit in M&SU.

This surprises me as I would have said that Sandeep was the first master that joined the Arcanists rather than joined the M&SU. ( Initial 3 of Marcus, Rasputina and Ramos, only Ramos was M&SU, Colette joined and was both a strong spell caster and an important front for the Smuggling activities of M&SU. Kaeris joined as the M&SU enforcer. Mei joined to be part of the workers, although less miner, but still steamfitter as she worked on the rail side of the organisation. Inronsides became the enforcer for M&SU as Kaeris did more Magical stuff). I certainly used to joke at the beginning of M2e that it wasn't the arcanist faction it was the M&SU faction. 

So whilst I can see story reason why you don't have Kaeris as Duel faction, and Ironsides isn't really a mage so isn't really an arcanist, I see no links between Sandeep and M&SU.

Colette is perfect choice in Story, and Flavour to be duel faction. She wants to stick with powerful mages, but is also a good link with the M&SU smuggling. Right back to her First edition card she had special M&SU hiring rules, and she is a master of illusion, so maintaining links to both organisations as they separate should not have been too hard. And most of her income comes from M&SU either in the form of her smuggling, or in the form of the common workers visiting the Star.

Other than that I like Solkans breakdown

 

 

 

[Rufess]

I have not read the Arcanist story so all my impression to Sandeep is from the background summary on official web. Seems like I have mistaken that he not taking side means Sandeep wants to stand neutral between M&SU and Arcanist and try to maintain the unity of 2 sides. After you pointed it out I can now see Sandeep as a pure Arcanists and Colette being the dual faction instead. Though I don't think Colette would have any keyword models in M&SU side.

And if Sandeep was not joining the M&SU, then the faction would need a new summoner. Ivan could be a good choice. But as mentioned above I can also see the chance to promote Fitzs into a summoner master who calling reinforce from scheme marker like Dashel.

[Adran]

If I had to split Performers between Arcanists and M&SU, then I would put most of the living ones in Arcanist, and the Corephyee and Maniquins in M&SU. Although I could easily be persuaded that the Corephyee are Arcanist, and the showgirls are M&SU (But not Carlos, Cassandra or Ice dancers, they are all arcanist unless CAssandra stepped up her smuggling role more and reduced her trick learning ).

There would have to be new masters created if you split the faction in 2. Its possible Ivan might still have been created, but I doubt that we would have received Lord Cooper as a Master.

Going back to you r original question, there is no way that Marcus would have left. from a purely practical design point of view. The Game would need several new masters to make Arcanists have as many as the other factions. its possible that they might have stopped him joining neverborn because they wanted to create new masters, and a new master that crosses 2 factions is probably a better seller. That's or brining in an existing master into Arcanist is more use.  

M&SU - Toni, Mei, Colette, Hoffman

Arcanist - Kaeris, Rasputina, Marcus,  Colette, Sandeep.

I would make a new construct summoning master in M&SU. Then I think each faction would need to be made up to 7 masters.

 

Guild - Justice, Sonnia, Perdita, Lucuis, Hoffman, Nellie, Dashel.

Resser - Seamus, McMorning, Kirai, Molly, Reva, Yan lo, Von Sctook

Neverborn - Zoraida, Pandora, Dreamer, Nekima,  Lucius, Titania (either Jacob, or Euripides)

Outcast - Leviticus, Viks, Von Schill, Hamlin, Jack Daw, Parker

Bayou - Sommer, Ophelia, Zipp, Wong, Ulix, Brewmaster, Mah Tucket.

Ten Thunder Misaki, McCabe, Yan lo, Mei, Jacob, Shenlong, Asami.

 

Arcanists probably should get another duel master, but I'm not sure who. Wong is a possible, as could Von Stchook. Zoraida, having had to be kicked out of the Bayou may have moved to Arcanists.

And New masters is anyone's guess. but we need 1 for arcanist and 2 more for M&SU, but I'm not sure what niche they would have gone for.

[solkan]

I think this discussion really turns on what a person means when they say “M&SU”.

The Coryphee and the mannequins have been products of people working for the M&SU.  Same with the various mechanical spiders.  Naturally, the various arcane anarchists were frequent customers.  So it would probably make sense for the constructs built by the M&SU to be dual faction.

Colette and the performers aren’t dues paying members of the M&SU.  If they worked with M&SU members, it was because they were working with the clandestine Arcanist members of the M&SU.

It’s like dealing with Mafia Pizza, a pizza restaurant used as a front by the mob that recruits some of the pizza restaurant staff into the mob.  Ordering pizza, or working for the mob, don’t make you a member of Mafia Pizza.

[Adran]

4 hours ago, solkan said:

 

Colette and the performers aren’t dues paying members of the M&SU.  If they worked with M&SU members, it was because they were working with the clandestine Arcanist members of the M&SU.

This is a fair point but I don't think it's true.

I would point out that Colette did used to have the M&SU membership characteristic, and was the 4th character in game ( after Ramos, joss and Johan) with it. So she was a member, even if she didn't mine. Her work was all to do with the smuggling of soulstones as far as I can remember, but it was definitely a M&SU thing, not an arcanist thing. 

[Vangerdahast]

 

Another thing to note is that presently the smuggling operations are lead by Kaeris who delegates it to Colette. If Kaeris become an Arcanist Master, she will certainly lose the control of Soulstones and smuggling that will be kept by Toni for the M&SU. Since Ramos' abscence, Colette and Kaeris have become friends (Colette Vignette in Ripples of Fate).

 

This could be a good starting point for a Colette story. Does she stay within the M&SU to pursue smuggling operations and ensure the Star Theatre prosperity or does she join Kaeris and the other Arcanists by loyalty to her friend?  A tough choice to make. Or she decides to have it both ways and becomes a Dual Master as already mentionned. But, in this case, depending on the relations between Toni and Kaeris, it could be a dangerous game to play.

 

[Jesy Blue]

5 hours ago, Vangerdahast said:

Another thing to note is that presently the smuggling operations are lead by Kaeris who delegates it to Colette. If Kaeris become an Arcanist Master, she will certainly lose the control of Soulstones and smuggling that will be kept by Toni for the M&SU. Since Ramos' abscence, Colette and Kaeris have become friends (Colette Vignette in Ripples of Fate).

This could be a good starting point for a Colette story. Does she stay within the M&SU to pursue smuggling operations and ensure the Star Theatre prosperity or does she join Kaeris and the other Arcanists by loyalty to her friend?  A tough choice to make. Or she decides to have it both ways and becomes a Dual Master as already mentionned. But, in this case, depending on the relations between Toni and Kaeris, it could be a dangerous game to play.

Plays both sides, gets caught, becomes Outcast in 4th edition!

[Ogid]

1 hour ago, Jesy Blue said:

Plays both sides, gets caught, becomes Outcast in 4th edition!

Or Resurrectionist if things really go south... on the other hand, showgirls could use H2W

 

[Vangerdahast]

6 hours ago, Ogid said:

Or Resurrectionist if things really go south... on the other hand, showgirls could use H2W

 

In that case, there will be a competition between Colette and Seamus to keep Doxies under control.🤣

 

[Jesy Blue]

3 hours ago, Vangerdahast said:

In that case, there will be a competition between Colette and Seamus to keep Doxies under control.

Well there was that Seamus upgrade from 2nd edition where he could hire Showgirls... might be time to dust it off.

[Ogid]

11 hours ago, Vangerdahast said:

In that case, there will be a competition between Colette and Seamus to keep Doxies under control.🤣

Haha true, between messing with Seamus' and how well she would get along with Molly and Kiray (the dead justice league?), she would fit. I rather her alive tho.

[Da Git]

My take on how the split would have gone:

M&SU

• Ironsides - obviously
• Hoffman - since Ironsides is building relations with the Guild, pairing these two would be mutually beneficial. Gives the Guild some eyes in the Union and Ironsides some technical genius since Ramos is gone.
• Colette - maybe dual faction continues to muggle ss for M&SU, but stays friends with Kaeris. More M&SU though since she relies on their patronage (both in miners coming to shows, payment for smuggling and technical know-how for the mannequins)
• Joss - upgraded to master, dual FM&SU and Arcanists. Inherits Ramos position. Works with both factions. Gets new mechanic henchman. Works with spiders and has electricity theme
• Mei Feng - Foundry is part of the Union
• Ivan - Loyal to the Movement
• Syndicate maybe? Maybe Condor Rails got unionised?
• Something else

Arcanists

• Kaeris - obvious
• Sandeep - was brought in to train the next gen arcanists. Tries to rein in Kaeris' excessive attacks and collateral damage.
• Marcus - never really had ties to the union outside of Ramos.
• Rasputina - obvious Arcanist. Eats unionists (and anyone esle really!)
• Mr Mordrake - fun idea I had. Completely seperates from Ivan... represnts his dark side!
• McCabe - Duel 10 Thunders/Arcanists. After getting kicked out of Guild the Arcanists make him the same offer the Explorers did.
• Dr Stanley hive mind maybe?
• Something else

[Jesy Blue]

33 minutes ago, Da Git said:

• Joss - upgraded to master, dual FM&SU and Arcanists. Inherits Ramos position. Works with both factions. Gets new mechanic henchman. Works with spiders and has electricity theme.

Upgrading Joss to master.... it's so obvious!  Duh!