Adran Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, SerZaka said: I don't get the whole Golem/Killjoy thing. Why are they so strong in Recover? They both have a demise that involves the downside of burying them. If you bury them with an itelligence token, then you can't get the Strategy marker to score (unless they choose to unbury them). If you choose not to bury them, then the downside of the demise is vastly reduced. Obviously that is only if your opponent gives them a token. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerZaka Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 For reason unknown I remembered the Strategy differently . Good thing that there are 5 of them then (to score max points) xD as one would be impossible to get without an Ignore Demise Ability/Action Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 8 hours ago, SerZaka said: For reason unknown I remembered the Strategy differently . Good thing that there are 5 of them then (to score max points) xD as one would be impossible to get without an Ignore Demise Ability/Action Yeah, so it is possibly okay anyway. Plus the grave golem is so slow and clunky it isn't good for a cat and mouse strategy (unless claim jump is in the pool). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irritated Walrus Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 The bury aspect on recover evidence is clunky and needs to be reworded. I played a symbols game the other night and it was fun. We both placed in an area we thought was well defended, but both players managed to pick up markers. Runic binding seems tough, but I think its doable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 16 minutes ago, Irritated Walrus said: I played a symbols game the other night and it was fun. We both placed in an area we thought was well defended, but both players managed to pick up markers. I've been wondering about that. It seems like you could just put summoned Ashigaru on every marker to prevent interaction (2" engagement range). Was it hard to do that type of thing in practice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irritated Walrus Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said: I've been wondering about that. It seems like you could just put summoned Ashigaru on every marker to prevent interaction (2" engagement range). Was it hard to do that type of thing in practice? No, they are easy to defend with 2" ranges. The thing is that you then aren't spending the AP needed to go and pick up markers. It's a trade off. The game that I played (Tara vs. Basse) didn't have an issue with summons protecting the markers. We are both very aggressive players. He picked up all four and I picked up three. The motto of our meta is "They can't scheme if they are dead". So, it did get quite bloody around the markers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeperColony Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 Nice to see they definitively resolved the "At the start" issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelshard Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 Public enemies seems horrible. You have to get 3 points for the first vp and if a model with Bounty markers dies you lose the markers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santaclaws01 Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Angelshard said: Public enemies seems horrible. You have to get 3 points for the first vp and if a model with Bounty markers dies you lose the markers It's 2 for the first point. And the tokens being able to go to any model in LOS means you can avoid putting them on a model in danger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelshard Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 @santaclaws01 you're right about the 2 points. But the token only goes to any model in Los if your opponent killed his own model. Otherwise it's the model that made the kill that gains the token Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 3 hours ago, Irritated Walrus said: No, they are easy to defend with 2" ranges. The thing is that you then aren't spending the AP needed to go and pick up markers. It's a trade off. The game that I played (Tara vs. Basse) didn't have an issue with summons protecting the markers. We are both very aggressive players. He picked up all four and I picked up three. The motto of our meta is "They can't scheme if they are dead". So, it did get quite bloody around the markers. Hmmm... Toshiro pops out summons with 2" engage, armor, take the hit, and hard to kill. For 16 stones you can set up a pretty strong castle while having another ~30 for offense. I'll test it out! 2 hours ago, LeperColony said: Nice to see they definitively resolved the "At the start" issue. Agree, some very great rules resolutions (and a much needed page 34 errata! Still doesn't quite work, but at least it is clear how it works now). For public enemies, keep in kind that compared to reckoning, many enforcers count triple credit (Archie is 3 tokens instead of one model). Getting heaps of tokens will be common. Two points seems doable, 3 points occasionally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 Wait... can Seamus teleport through blocking strategy markers on ley lines? He doesn't have to target them or affect them in any way (just places within 1" of blocking terrain from memory). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mycellanious Posted March 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 I really like the change to Recover Evidence, that the Marker is dropped if the model is killed OR REDUCED TO 1 HEALTH, to avoid those messy bury demise effects 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddywhack Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 Am I the only one that thinks the first point of Leave Your Mark appears to be a very easy? Most Schemes seem to involve multiple AP (normally) to achieve them. LYM can literally be 1AP and your done. That second point it pretty hard though, being so close together, unless you have ways to drop schemes other than Interact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatlatinspeakingguy Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 31 minutes ago, Paddywhack said: Am I the only one that thinks the first point of Leave Your Mark appears to be a very easy? Most Schemes seem to involve multiple AP (normally) to achieve them. LYM can literally be 1AP and your done. That second point it pretty hard though, being so close together, unless you have ways to drop schemes other than Interact. it's super easy if your opponent doesn't have his own marker 1" from the centerpoint as well. and I assure you that he will try to do so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddywhack Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 24 minutes ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said: it's super easy if your opponent doesn't have his own marker 1" from the centerpoint as well. and I assure you that he will try to do so! Well sure, but the same could be said for most schemes - your opponent is going to try and stop you This one just seems to have a very low bar for potential AP needed. Not saying its horrible, just seems a bit out of whack with most of the other schemes. Still wish they had put that Valentine's Day scheme in the mix. That one seems like fun and challenging. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatlatinspeakingguy Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 27 minutes ago, Paddywhack said: Well sure, but the same could be said for most schemes - your opponent is going to try and stop you The difference is that in case of most other marker-based schemes your opponent can prevent you from scoring the first point mainly reactively. In case of that one he knows very well where the marker needs to placed and will preemptively place his own. Which means that with that scheme in the pool both players will most likely try to prevent the opponent from scoring it even if none of them knows wheter opponent picked it or not. overall, I think it's not as simple as it seems to score the first point and the mere fact that the scheme is in the pool may impact the game in interesting way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 Yeah. I tried the new middle scheme and my opponent was great at blocking mine... And I assumed he was just blocking mine, then last activation he lept in with a silurid and removed my marker, securing the point! So definitely trickier than you think. I had a point and then suddenly he had a point instead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelshard Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 Let them bleed first point has me a bit confused. As I read it the highest cost isn't just in your opponents crew but in play, so if you have a model that has a higher cost you can't score this unless that model is dead. Also if your opponent has one model that cost 9 and one that cost 10 does the 9 stone model still count as highest cost? Or can you only score this if your opponent has two models that costs the same and at least as much as your most expensive model? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 25 minutes ago, Angelshard said: Let them bleed first point has me a bit confused. As I read it the highest cost isn't just in your opponents crew but in play, so if you have a model that has a higher cost you can't score this unless that model is dead. Also if your opponent has one model that cost 9 and one that cost 10 does the 9 stone model still count as highest cost? Or can you only score this if your opponent has two models that costs the same and at least as much as your most expensive model? There is a rules discussion for this one on the rules forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mycellanious Posted March 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 4 hours ago, Paddywhack said: Am I the only one that thinks the first point of Leave Your Mark appears to be a very easy? Most Schemes seem to involve multiple AP (normally) to achieve them. LYM can literally be 1AP and your done. That second point it pretty hard though, being so close together, unless you have ways to drop schemes other than Interact. I imagine its going to be the Deliver a Message of GG1, as in if LYM is in the pool both players always take it. You need to drop the marker to deny your opponent from scoring anyway, so you may as well always take it. If you dont, you just end up sending models to the middle and spending AP denying your opponent, but literally the same actions you take to deny them would also score you points... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Mycellanious said: I imagine its going to be the Deliver a Message of GG1, as in if LYM is in the pool both players always take it. You need to drop the marker to deny your opponent from scoring anyway, so you may as well always take it. If you dont, you just end up sending models to the middle and spending AP denying your opponent, but literally the same actions you take to deny them would also score you points... I'm not sure that's the case. I see it as the new claim jump (or you can take it WITH claim jump as apparently both exist at once...) So basically, if you want to have a solid chance at 2 points (or even one point), you need a crew that can control the centre. If playing against Dreamer as Molly without Grave golem for instance.... There is no way I'm going for trying to score both points for Leave your Mark or Claim Jump (and instead going hard on deny-sniping them). I might single score them depending on my plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mycellanious Posted March 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Maniacal_cackle said: I'm not sure that's the case. I see it as the new claim jump (or you can take it WITH claim jump as apparently both exist at once...) So basically, if you want to have a solid chance at 2 points (or even one point), you need a crew that can control the centre. If playing against Dreamer as Molly without Grave golem for instance.... There is no way I'm going for trying to score both points for Leave your Mark or Claim Jump (and instead going hard on deny-sniping them). I might single score them depending on my plan. But the issue is that Claim Jump and LYM are both very low AP Schemes. So it would be very easy for an opponent to score them on Turn 2, then spend 3 and 4 denying your points before scoring them again on Turn 5. So if you dont take them and they are in the pool you are just screwing yourself out of easy points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 21 minutes ago, Mycellanious said: But the issue is that Claim Jump and LYM are both very low AP Schemes. So it would be very easy for an opponent to score them on Turn 2, then spend 3 and 4 denying your points before scoring them again on Turn 5. So if you dont take them and they are in the pool you are just screwing yourself out of easy points Well, will have to test it out! Claim Jump and LYM are situationally very easy schemes to deny, so I imagine that many crews will struggle with the double (while crews like Dreamer can probably double both of them easily). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelshard Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 I think Lucius is going to love leave your mark get him near the center and your opponent can't score it as long as you have a card in hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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