Thoughts on Gaining Grounds One?

[Mycellanious]

My first thoughts are that Recover Intel sounds like a crazy tough Strategy, and also just a middle finger to Tara in particular. 

I also think Runic Binding sounds like Detonate the Charges but harder and no one tool Detonate to begin with...

[Maniacal_cackle]

Runic binding is probably easier than it appears.

You can set a minefield of scheme markers that your opponent has to wonder if they want to send models into (when you potentially don't even have the scheme anyway). Great bluffing potential and proactive board setup potential in one.

EDIT: the strategies...

Symbols of authority, brilliant design, great decision making. Useful for disrupting ranged attacks to boot.

Recover evidence will involve really strategic list building. You want five significant, non-master models but not much more than that. Could force a token on a grave golem for instance. Going to have a lot of turtling and scoring off schemes for this one.

Should be some very dynamic gameplay, and may give some more defensive crews a chance.

[Trample]

2 hours ago, Mycellanious said:

just a middle finger to Tara in particular. 

Yeah, that was my first thought as well. It's probably OK to have a couple of things a particular master or two absolutely cannot do, but this one is pretty extreme. 

[Mycellanious]

48 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Runic binding is probably easier than it appears.

You can set a minefield of scheme markers that your opponent has to wonder if they want to send models into (when you potentially don't even have the scheme anyway). Great bluffing potential and proactive board setup potential in one.

EDIT: the strategies...

Symbols of authority, brilliant design, great decision making. Useful for disrupting ranged attacks to boot.

Recover evidence will involve really strategic list building. You want five significant, non-master models but not much more than that. Could force a token on a grave golem for instance. Going to have a lot of turtling and scoring off schemes for this one.

Should be some very dynamic gameplay, and may give some more defensive crews a chance.

I was actually thinking about the Grave Golem. If it has an Intel Token, it cant bury. So what happens with its Demise?

[Trample]

46 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Runic binding is probably easier than it appears.

You can set a minefield of scheme markers that your opponent has to wonder if they want to send models into (when you potentially don't even have the scheme anyway). Great bluffing potential and proactive board setup potential in one.

Some of the models with ranged scheme marker dropping or movement will have a great time with this one. Merris, Wokou Raiders, and models with similar abilities. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

3 minutes ago, Mycellanious said:

I was actually thinking about the Grave Golem. If it has an Intel Token, it cant bury. So what happens with its Demise?

EDIT: I was wrong, the bury can be denied and the heal happens regardless I'm pretty sure (opponent doesn't have to deny the bury though).

In effect, the token is auto wasted, no way to get it on the board without ignore demise.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Updated my answer above, turns out grave golem is just really strong for this strategy potentially.

Will test it out tonight.

[Nagi21]

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Updated my answer above, turns out grave golem is just really strong for this strategy potentially.

Will test it out tonight.

Same with Killjoy.  Interesting decision the opponent would have to make if played right.

[Maniacal_cackle]

35 minutes ago, Nagi21 said:

Same with Killjoy.  Interesting decision the opponent would have to make if played right.

These have been weak models in 3E so far (tanky, lumbering brutes), so seems like a positive to me.

You nailed it, interesting decisions for sure!

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

Recover Evidence is very similar to 2E Headhunter which was in GG for two years, so I am not very excited about it, although it creates interesting dynamic with Demise: Eteral-ish Abilities.

Runic Biding does not seem particularily difficult to me, and playing or bluffing it can result in some awkward positioning from your oppontent. Not to mention that closing enemy crew within the leylines of dark power created by zombies animated by Asura sounds like fun to me

[DuBlanck]

Recover Evidence also turns down Soulstone Miner shenanigans.

I think Recover Evidence Ritual Binding is going to be something most factions have to build into pretty hard - it wouldn't surprise me if there are some factions that never take it (Ressurs? A lot of Guild?) and others that nearly auto-score it, much  like a harder and more telegraphed Detonate Charges.

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

5 minutes ago, DuBlanck said:

Recover Evidence also turns down Soulstone Miner shenanigans.

I think Recover Evidence is going to be something most factions have to build into pretty hard - it wouldn't surprise me if there are some factions that never take it (Ressurs? A lot of Guild?) and others that nearly auto-score it, much  like a harder and more telegraphed Detonate Charges.

It's a strategy, you can't not take it

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just played through Recover Evidence with the binding scheme. Some thoughts.

• Recover evidence is very cat and mouse. Since you have some models that don't have tokens, and some that do, you're trying very hard to keep your token models safe. You *can* go down to five models to carry tokens (my opponent did), but then schemes are hard.
• Recover evidence is 100% about scoring the schemes. It is very hard to score strategy points, so you're cat-and-mousing to get small scheme advantages.
• Binding scheme is extremely hard to do for the first point. Getting the schemes down is easy. Getting a part of the board with 3 enemies in it... Pretty hard. Once you start placing schemes, one of them is going to run away (assuming you can get three together begin with. It is like herding cats).
• However, you can proactively place schemes a bit, so on some strategies it is probably doable (like turf war).
• Grave golem was pretty meh. He was way too slow to cat-and-mouse, and he wasn't one of my token carriers anyway.
• EDIT: Although he did keep three enemy models busy trying to reposition him, kill him, and/or avoid him. So actually he was probably pretty useful. He just threatened a large part of the board with "you can't score points off me."
• EDIT: corner deployment.

[touchdown]

I feel like I'm missing something. Why do you want to limit the number of models you have for recover evidence? More models = more AP = more chances to kill a token model or pick up an evidence marker.

[Adran]

12 minutes ago, touchdown said:

I feel like I'm missing something. Why do you want to limit the number of models you have for recover evidence? More models = more AP = more chances to kill a token model or pick up an evidence marker.

In general your crew has about 65 health. if you spread that over too many models it becomes easy for your opponent to kill them and get access to their own markers. If you only have 5 non master models in the crew then you remove the choice of where to put the markers.

[melkore]

Runic Binding is a dead scheme in my eyes for Neverborn outside of Zoraida and Lucius obeys.  We just don't have the ease of dropping markers that other factions do with ranged scheme dropping outside of Aeslin's trigger.

[RisingPhoenix]

Dead in Outcasts as well.  We're not allowed to get good friendly scheme marker placement abilities.  

[Jesy Blue]

20 minutes ago, RisingPhoenix said:

Dead in Outcasts as well.  We're not allowed to get good friendly scheme marker placement abilities. 

What are you talking about?

 

Emissary

Pretty Floral Bonnet

Rat Catchers

Benny

Prospector

Student of Conflict

PARKER!

 

We have plenty of scheme marker tricks in the outskirts.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Runic binding just seems so hard to get three enemies into a 10" triangle, nevermind actually dropping the schemes.

I think it is one that will heavily rely on certain enemies (bubble crews will be super vulnerable to it).

Maybe it is just my meta that likes to field 6-8 models spread across the board for solid coverage.

I wish it was two enemies, one ally.

EDIT: oh, a thought on Recover Evidence! Could have it so that a model buried by a friendly effect drops its marker. This way buries still work, but are risky. Also means the grave golem isn't just immune to the strategy.

[cbtb11235813]

6 hours ago, melkore said:

Runic Binding is a dead scheme in my eyes for Neverborn outside of Zoraida and Lucius obeys.  We just don't have the ease of dropping markers that other factions do with ranged scheme dropping outside of Aeslin's trigger

Cyclops are pretty good at it . 

  

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Runic binding just seems so hard to get three enemies into a 10" triangle, nevermind actually dropping the schemes.

I think it is one that will heavily rely on certain enemies (bubble crews will be super vulnerable to it).

Maybe it is just my meta that likes to field 6-8 models spread across the board for solid coverage.

I wish it was two enemies, one ally.

EDIT: oh, a thought on Recover Evidence! Could have it so that a model buried by a friendly effect drops its marker. This way buries still work, but are risky. Also means the grave golem isn't just immune to the strategy.

The problem with that is that Tara could bury her whole crew turn 1, putting all her markers on the back edge of the board. If you aren't a super mobile crew, that really sucks

[Trample]

3 hours ago, Jesy Blue said:

What are you talking about?

 

Emissary

Pretty Floral Bonnet

Rat Catchers

Benny

Prospector

Student of Conflict

PARKER!

 

We have plenty of scheme marker tricks in the outskirts.

Yup, and with Zipp you have Merris and Piglets. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 hour ago, cbtb11235813 said:

The problem with that is that Tara could bury her whole crew turn 1, putting all her markers on the back edge of the board. If you aren't a super mobile crew, that really sucks

I personally think that would add an interesting element to matching up against Tara, giving her access to a high risk/high reward tactic. Of course, if it was considered undesirable from a game design perspective, you could also keep the 'opponent may choose to make you drop the marker' to ensure it was never abused (rather than opponent may choose for you not to bury).

[Angelshard]

5 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Runic binding just seems so hard to get three enemies into a 10" triangle, nevermind actually dropping the schemes.

Remember that it doesn't have to be a triangle. It's just a minimum of three markers. You could make an octagon around the models, as long as all the markers are within 10" of each other. Also the enemy models doesn't have to be completely within the area, so it's a bigger area than you might think. 

Also, sometimes I only go for 1 point of a scheme and the second point isn't that hard. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

13 minutes ago, Angelshard said:

Remember that it doesn't have to be a triangle. It's just a minimum of three markers. You could make an octagon around the models, as long as all the markers are within 10" of each other. Also the enemy models doesn't have to be completely within the area, so it's a bigger area than you might think. 

Also, sometimes I only go for 1 point of a scheme and the second point isn't that hard. 

Yeah, as a second point it seems fine! For the first point, the shapes are so bizarre and difficult that it seems tricky (although I do like that you can lay a minefield and so want to test it on Turf War or similar before judging it too harshly).

[SerZaka]

I don't get the whole Golem/Killjoy thing. Why are they so strong in Recover?