yool1981 Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 In the upcoming release, we will have the joy of seeing the box named "Crime & Punishment" coming out. This box included Augmented models (Warden) and Guard models (Warden & Exxecutionners). Half the models (Executionners) are worth nothing to the Arcanists and yet, this box includes models for Hoffmann. Thank you Wyrd... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tors Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 That's true, and always was for many dual Faction Masters and Keywords, take Howard for example in Guild Hoffman or First Mate for Zoraida. Still better than dozen of different SKUs. So cut the passive aggressive whining and try to grap either an old box or find someone to share with. 🙄 3 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogid Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 This kind of situation sucks... Do they share the same matrix in M2e? In NBV there is a simmilar situation with the First Mate being in the Zip box (only playable model of that box in NVB), and it was caused by that, the matrix of the M2E Zip box. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 Yeah, it'd be nice if they included the First Mate in the new Zoraida box. It is unfortunate how awkward purchases get, especially when a model in question is one of the best in keyword (First Mate). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yool1981 Posted November 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, Tors said: That's true, and always was for many dual Faction Masters and Keywords, take Howard for example in Guild Hoffman or First Mate for Zoraida. Still better than dozen of different SKUs. So cut the passive aggressive whining and try to grap either an old box or find someone to share with. 🙄 The Howard and Zipp problems mostly come from M2E sprues. Warden and Executionners are not on the same sprues. There is no reason to put them inside the same box. As to the SKU reduction, have you seen the number of stand alone ref boxes? The SKU reduction is very very limited (it mostly comes from having stopped the practice of issuing minion boxes for the minion that were inside the crew boxes). Finally, grabing an old box is not as easy as it was before and who do you want to share with? A Guild player that will also want the Warden because it is in his faction? This is not whining this is complaining about an annoying decision. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tors Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 Nah, sounds like whining to me 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, Tors said: Nah, sounds like whining to me Well, it is a pretty legit thing to be a bit annoyed about. I don't know why you've got to hate on OP so much. If you don't like the content of the post, you don't have to reply. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tors Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 Following that logic, op didn't have to make the post in the first place. I "hate" on him, because this posting wasn't even near to properly "complaining an annoying decision", it was a 'f**k you' disguised as a 'thank you' to create a charged mood and fish for some followers on a subject thats rather trivial and won't be changed either. So what goes around comes around. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yool1981 Posted November 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 Not fishing for followers. Just sharing my annoyance and stating a displeasure so that hopefully this kind of sales practice stays limited. And no, although ironic, my message was not a "f** you", I am sorry you took it that way. If it can reassure you, I very often send "I love you" messages to Wyrd in the form of hard cash every time I buy their products :D. 30 minutes ago, Tors said: So what goes around comes around. This may sound a bit childish, don't you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogid Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 While it's true the OP is a bit bitter, it's still a legit complain and feedback for Wyrd to avoid this situation in future boxes. Mixing keywords in a box is okish if they share faction because OOK picks are a thing and It's reasonable the SKU number want to be kept low. But a player shouldn't be forced to get models out of his faction to complete a keyword imo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 Making Hoffman dual faction and at the same time bundling models that were available separately with exclusively guild models from a completely different keyword seems very customer unfriendly to me. Hoffman would likely prefer in theme constructs so the executioners are very expensive paper weights. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 Everyone, play nice. People are free to voice their complaints, and to respond to those complaints with their opinions, but not if that devolves into personal attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yore Huckleberry Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 I honestly think Wyrd has a right to gently pressure their sales. They're still a business and they've built us a great game. Splitting a purchase or re-selling models you don't use on the secondary market is an option for sure, but I also feel like part of the joy of the game is that they've obviously built very intentional bridges across the factions with what seems to present as a major and a minor faction for each master. I've started in Guild and I've been enjoying dreaming of getting into Arcanists, Neverborn, or Explorers next as I look at connected models. 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 2 hours ago, Yore Huckleberry said: I honestly think Wyrd has a right to gently pressure their sales. Personally it puts me off buying more models. A lot of the crews I want to build end up with clunky purchases (First Mate being the current prime example), and as someone with finite funds I don't like picking up useless models. So Ive ended up not buying any new models since release (but have bought a few second hand). I also have immediate distrust for getting into a game where the company tries to increase sales by 'gentle pressure.' Something I love about Malifaux is a lot of the time I want to buy more crews because they look fun, not because I have to. Compare that to MTG where you have to spend a fortune just to stay competitive... And yeah, I get very distrustful of companies that behave like this. All that said, I think Wyrd does okay. I still actively recruit new players into the game. You can easily buy one core box plus one or two support boxes and have a casual playable crew. That's what actually sells the game for people here locally - the fact that you can play for cheap, and you only have to buy more models because you're having so much fun. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogid Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 Agree 100% with the above; players have a budget and want to get the most out of that budget so "force feeding" an entire crew to get a model for example is something that is going to annoy players interested only in one faction or worse, only in that crew. And it's not even necessary, double faction masters make a great job crossovering the different factions and making easy the transition from one to the other. And a player that like the game will get "moar!" models and factions over time, there is no need for this kind of "gently pressure". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 One positive of all this is bundling models together likely pushes down costs overall (economies of scale). I suspect crews are overall cheaper to purchase on average due to bundling effects than if you had to buy everything in isolation. Still, it is annoying when these cases crop up! Incidentally, I also wish Wyrd produced at least some full keyword boxes (for instance, it'd be nice if you could buy Pandora and all associated models in a single set), but I imagine they couldn't do it for every crew. Maybe one flagship crew per faction or something. But would be a nice way to drive down costs if the demand was sufficiently high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Vening Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 21 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said: Incidentally, I also wish Wyrd produced at least some full keyword boxes (for instance, it'd be nice if you could buy Pandora and all associated models in a single set), but I imagine they couldn't do it for every crew. Maybe one flagship crew per faction or something. But would be a nice way to drive down costs if the demand was sufficiently high. But wouldn't that exacerbate the problem even further? Simplest example is Carver, Iggy and Lyssa. Either they're included, or they're not. If they're included, that's a VERY expensive purchase for a Dreamer, Kaeris or Euripedes player. If they're not, then it's almost defeating the purpose of "full keyword". But even if that's fixed, and split Keywords aren't included, it still runs the issue of wanting to run Candy (as an example), OOK. Having a $50 box that you can expand into at a later date is one thing. Having a $100 box means committing a lot more up front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Morgan Vening said: But wouldn't that exacerbate the problem even further? Simplest example is Carver, Iggy and Lyssa. Either they're included, or they're not. If they're included, that's a VERY expensive purchase for a Dreamer, Kaeris or Euripedes player. If they're not, then it's almost defeating the purpose of "full keyword". But even if that's fixed, and split Keywords aren't included, it still runs the issue of wanting to run Candy (as an example), OOK. Having a $50 box that you can expand into at a later date is one thing. Having a $100 box means committing a lot more up front. Haha, true, I picked a poor example as I forgot about Carver. Throw in that alongside logistical issues, and yeah, I'd say it is an unreasonable pipe dream. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesy Blue Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 I think this is the first/only box I've seen not line up properly... 42-1 is not a bad record, but i guess it remains to be seen how the next couple boxes end up. If Kabuki Warriors end up come with Hucksters & Kitty is boxed with Gokudos, I might start a table flipping campaign. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikodemus Posted November 8, 2019 Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 15 hours ago, Jesy Blue said: I think this is the first/only box I've seen not line up properly... 42-1 is not a bad record, but i guess it remains to be seen how the next couple boxes end up. Burning Bridges has (iirc) 4 Kaeris models and 1 Kaeris/Sandeep model. Bit of a bad deal for non-Kaeris players. Most boxes so far have seemed good though. Lets hope it stays that way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogid Posted November 8, 2019 Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 17 hours ago, Jesy Blue said: If Kabuki Warriors end up come with Hucksters & Kitty is boxed with Gokudos, I might start a table flipping campaign Let me suggest some names Kabuki+Hucksters box: "Watch the show... and your pockets", "Hand tricks of all kind", "A kind of magic" Kitty+Gokudos box: "Retainers of alcohol", "Dude, where is my alcohol", "Silent, lethal... and drunk" 1 hour ago, Nikodemus said: Burning Bridges has (iirc) 4 Kaeris models and 1 Kaeris/Sandeep model. Bit of a bad deal for non-Kaeris players. Most boxes so far have seemed good though. Lets hope it stays that way. This one is bad, but not that bad tho. All models are from the same faction, the golem is the biggest and more expensive model of that box and Elijah (and maybe 1 Firebranded) could be a legit model to include in a Sandeep fire themed crew. Both Kandara and the Banasuba are Flameborne; a few Golem shockwaves in the turn 1 and the Firebranded will have good targets to heal (and his elemental bolt with a built in trigger isn't bad for a 6SS model), plus both Elijah and Firebranded will have their damage reduction active thanks to the Pyre Markers a Sandeep crew may generate with the Banasuba aura and move around with the Gamin/golem. However it would had been much better having the 3 gamings there (useful for both crews) and the firebranded in the Kaeris core box (more useful for Kaeris) tho. 17 hours ago, Jesy Blue said: I think this is the first/only box I've seen not line up properly... 42-1 is not a bad record, but i guess it remains to be seen how the next couple boxes end up. One of the worst examples is the First Mate in NBV. If a NVB player wants that model has to buy the Zipp core box (Zipp not playable in NVB). In NVB there are another mixed boxes (not bad tho): the howling has mixed Fae/Savage (good for fae, bad for savage) and Familiar Faces pack a versatile/Mimic with Mimic (this one is a good compromise for GUI) I agree that most boxes are properly lined up tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesy Blue Posted November 8, 2019 Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 9 hours ago, Ogid said: One of the worst examples is the First Mate in NBV. If a NVB player wants that model has to buy the Zipp core box (Zipp not playable in NVB). I don't even find this one bad... Swampfield is a Bayou/Neverborn duel faction keyword and The First Mate is Infamous & Bayou first and foremost. General Bayou players are satisfied, Zoraida players who have both Bayou & Neverborn crews are satisfied, Neverborn players who don't play Bayou are not satified.... like Meatloaf said, "Now don't be sad, cause 2 out of 3 ain't bad." 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogid Posted November 8, 2019 Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 33 minutes ago, Jesy Blue said: I don't even find this one bad... Swampfield is a Bayou/Neverborn duel faction keyword and The First Mate is Infamous & Bayou first and foremost. General Bayou players are satisfied, Zoraida players who have both Bayou & Neverborn crews are satisfied, Neverborn players who don't play Bayou are not satified.... like Meatloaf said, "Now don't be sad, cause 2 out of 3 ain't bad." Really? A NVB player with no interest in other faction has to pay 50$ for just one S2 model. How is that not bad? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesy Blue Posted November 8, 2019 Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 Because the majority of people are satisfied, no it's not bad. And honestly, 3rd party online single model sellers exist... no one with a brain is paying fifty American dollars for the first mate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted November 8, 2019 Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 27 minutes ago, Ogid said: Really? A NVB player with no interest in other faction has to pay 50$ for just one S2 model. How is that not bad? I'd say you could make exactly the same argument about any figure in any box if you want. But I'm not restricted to "tribal" lines and if I buy the Zipp box it's because I wanted to play Zipp. If I only want it for the first mate, then I decide if the box is worth the cost. Sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn't. I've got a load of metal masters that I don't have totems for because it wasn't worth rebuying the rest of the box for the totem. I also own some masters multiple times because I chose to buy a second box for 1 figure. That never born player has bought a crew for 2 different factions containing 6 figures. Its their choice if they only use one. And it's their choice if that is a worthwhile purchase. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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