Reva Reverie

[gozer]

What do you guys think of 3E Reva? I played almost exclusively Reva after Ripples of Fate and loved everything about her. I loved placing the corpse candles around the board and dropping bodies for attack points, teleporting, damage buffs or defense shenanigans. I loved pushing the candles at models and exploding them only to summon more the next turn. I loved how Shieldbearers came back as restless spirits. I loved her theme of being the gentle, peaceful, mercy of death. She was the patient reaper who genuinely loved the dead. She was awesome.

Now, she doesn't feel as awesome. In fact, I don't know if she feels like Reva at all. She seems more like a Kaeris-Criid hybrid with an ungainly combo of shielded and burning. It's almost as if Wyrd wasn't sure what to do with Reva, so they did a madlibs of mechanics and conditions.

Anyway, she's the only master I played in 2E that felt like a different character entirely in 3E - and not for the better.

How do y'all feel about our Lady Revenant?

[Maniacal_cackle]

I think a lot of people are feeling this way about her.  I'm kinda curious to play her, just to see! My crews so far have been overpowered (Molly, Dreamer), so I'd love to try a crew people says is a bit lower tier.

I'm a bit put off by her core box, as shield bearers don't seem to fit the crew at all.

That said, Lampads have a ridiculous demise - replace a pyre marker ability. So they come back as spirits of the flame.

Corpse candles can be exploded to deliver pyre markers, so are still grenade-like. And then Reva summons one right back.

There is some neat stuff in there, but I never played M2E so don't know what the old stuff was like.

[TheJoyInGaming]

As someone that mained her in 2E, played her in the Open Beta, and then ultimately gave up on her, I agree with the idea that she doesn’t feel like the same Master as her previous incarnation. I personally feel she is less boring in this edition, but the balancing act one has to manage between corpses, Shielding, and Pyre Markers outweighs whatever fun I had whilst playing her. I have much more fun with my Freikorps and Rats now without all of Reva’s needlessly complex overhead.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Also, the crew seems crazy mobile.  Reva and Vincent have great movement shenanigans. Lampads and Draugr both have bonus actions with loads of movement. I can imagine you'd have models jumping all over the board, often guarded by pyre markers.

I wonder how they'd fair with Toshiro as well. Draugr could get up to a triple positive to their attack flip easily xD Excessive, but hilarious. And of course, he has great corpse marker synergy.

[unti]

I played her last week and i agree: she doesn't feel like her m2e-self but I had a lot of fun with her. I tried a aoe list with her unquiet dead action, lampads, Anna Lovelace and the emissary. I think it's not the strongest crew but it's fun!

Sadly it seems I have no luck with draugrs, they always die before doing anything... 

[LeperColony]

Do shieldbearers really have a role when there's Draugr?  There was a new player at the store who wanted a demo, and he was brought into the game because he saw the Reva box and thought it was awesome (rule of cool), bought it and wanted to try it.  After teaching the game and seeing the Shieldbearers in action, I have to wonder if Draugr aren't just a better option in almost all cases.

[Maniacal_cackle]

3 minutes ago, LeperColony said:

Do shieldbearers really have a role when there's Draugr?  There was a new player at the store who wanted a demo, and he was brought into the game because he saw the Reva box and thought it was awesome (rule of cool), bought it and wanted to try it.  After teaching the game and seeing the Shieldbearers in action, I have to wonder if Draugr aren't just a better option in almost all cases.

Them being able to push allies 6" seems potentially useful.

[LeperColony]

8 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Them being able to push allies 6" seems potentially useful.

Sure, but for the same and one more point of damage, you can push an ally 4", then push the Draugr 4", and then make a  on someone else.

[SoulGambit]

Shieldbearers are 1ss less, push 2" further, push for one less damage (which does matter) are more survivable, and continue to offer support to your crew through things like Take the Hit. They can also do the push shenanigans up to twice per activation, launching a model up to 12", while a Draugr can only ever do it once per activation. Shieldbearers also get Blasphemous Ritual, and Focus does a lot fpr the damage of this crew.

Beyond turn 1, Shieldbearers are still able to do their job from a position where they can also push a model. Draugr are pushing a model instead of doing their job.

[Aemaru]

Headheck

Tried it during open beta ... . Wyrd have tried many many differents versions during the beta and now it's playable but so much complexity to perform simple actions... I think this master is only here for those who need making hyper complexes equations to perform a 1+1 addition.

well it's way too complex to use for what this mental charge bring you back (spoiler : nothing particular)

 

[ShinChan]

I think right now there are 3 playstyles and none is fully complete. We really need some extra models within rhe keyword to give it consistency. 

• The corpse game
• The shielded game
• The fire/pyre marker game

Even tho, they're related between them, Reva doesn't get to fully compete in any of them. It's a fun crew to play, don't get me wrong, but it looks like its focus is quite divided.

[LightningJuice]

^ This exactly

[newsun]

Have not tried it though this looks interesting for the corpse game to me (might want killer on Reva instead)...

 

Zeva (Resurrectionist)
Size: 50 - Pool: 9
Leader:
  Reva Cortinas
    The Whisper
Totem(s):
  Corpse Candle
  Corpse Candle 2
Hires:
  Mindless Zombie
  Mindless Zombie 2
  Mindless Zombie 3
  Mindless Zombie 4
  Asura Roten
    Grave Spirit's Touch
  Anna Lovelace
  Carrion Emissary

[Graf]

On 11/6/2019 at 7:58 AM, newsun said:

Size: 50 - Pool: 9

Leader:
  Reva Cortinas
    The Whisper
Totem(s):
  Corpse Candle
  Corpse Candle 2
Hires:
  Mindless Zombie
  Mindless Zombie 2
  Mindless Zombie 3
  Mindless Zombie 4
  Asura Roten
    Grave Spirit's Touch
  Anna Lovelace
  Carrion Emissary

Don't you think this will have a lot of problems? If you loose Asura all the Zombies will be Insignificant again. They only have a 1/1/3 attack. So no scoring and no killing.

Lovelace can still explode them and they are attack points for Reva, but this much looks like huge overkill to me. Especially with 2 zombie summoners. 

I understand they are cheap, but I don't see what you intend them to do while you have only a limited amount of other models which can do actual work. Care to elaborate? 

[newsun]

3 hours ago, Graf said:

Don't you think this will have a lot of problems? If you loose Asura all the Zombies will be Insignificant again. They only have a 1/1/3 attack. So no scoring and no killing.

Lovelace can still explode them and they are attack points for Reva, but this much looks like huge overkill to me. Especially with 2 zombie summoners. 

I understand they are cheap, but I don't see what you intend them to do while you have only a limited amount of other models which can do actual work. Care to elaborate? 

Mostly send waves of zombies to swarm and scheme a bit they are easy to replace too. Lots of stones to keep key pieces alive. Reva should be able to attack all over the place.

Will it be good, dunno. Just looks interesting and probably fun.

[MrPieChee]

I think Graf's point is, you can summon those zombies, so you don't need to start with them.

If you got rid of the zombies and included a grave spirit and grave digger you can keep the theme but have more options... (I'm new to Malifaux, so that many corpses might be overkill).

[newsun]

This way you will have a pack of five threatening 16+inches turn one. 

[Graf]

18 hours ago, MrPieChee said:

hat many corpses might be overkill

That's it. How many markers will Reva need in a single turn? Shouldn't be more than two. You might want to have a little backup, but the list already has 2 Candles and can summon up to 4 Zombies. By recruiting them into your crew you lessens the pressure on your SS/hand, but one or two max should be more than enough.

Reva won't be able to use Unquiet Dead unless she wastes her attacks on your own models. That's why Vincent would help and he should be good enough on his own, even when you don't have a chance to use Cremation. A Shield Bearer could also help, like @SoulGambit proposed in his guide.

 

Fun is always a legit argument, I just try to avoid frustration for whoever tries this. But of course I'm happy to be proven wrong! The "shambling horde" style has its appeal.

[SoulGambit]

Asura and zombie hordes works great with Reva, but I wouldn't hire MZs directly. Take Asura along with a Shieldbearer. Smack her up the field, and expect to drop two to four stones on MZs the first turn, summoned near the center of the board. Have a corpse Candle move twice and use their bonus action to get all the zombies moving. Now your opponent has a problem at the top of turn 2, since 4+ MZs supported by Asura are a legitimate problem for anyone. They threaten to scheme because of Asura, they can threaten markers, and in a pinch 4+ MZs can do some real damage. 

You can even follow up with Anna Lovelace and/or Carrian Effigy (which gets you 5 MZs turn 1), and/or Toshiro. If you go this strategy, I would make sure you have Toshiro, Blasphemous Ritual, and/or Killer Instinct to recycle the Corpse Markers that MZs drop, but not necessarily the MZs themselves!

[MrPieChee]

I hadn't considered Toshiro OOK (and I don't much like the sculpt), but he looks great with Reva/Asura! At ten SS it's a bit of an investment though.

[LightningJuice]

If you really wanted to go all in on the animation of corpses idea you could bring in the Dead Rider. Use his Revel in Death "The Dead Hate the Living" trigger to summon a Mindless Zombie into base contact with all corpses within (6). If you kill them - They come back!!

And you get a Ride With Me for Asura

Assuming you had the corpses, which with the lists we're talking about I would imagine you would, you could potentially summon 5 zombies on turns 3, 4, and 5 with the Dead Rider. Also assuming your opponent is killing zombies like there's no tomorrow.

[Maniacal_cackle]

11 hours ago, MrPieChee said:

I hadn't considered Toshiro OOK (and I don't much like the sculpt), but he looks great with Reva/Asura! At ten SS it's a bit of an investment though.

I've been finding Toshiro super strong, but also often think it'd be more efficient to hire Kirai than Toshiro + corpse generation. But it could work well for your crew.

You don't tend to get much value out of his aura (unless Dead Rider is carting him around), but his summoning is as good as you can get out of a henchmen. If you do find a way to get Lampads and Draugr into his aura, though, I imagine it'll be reasonably potent.

[newsun]

14 hours ago, SoulGambit said:

Asura and zombie hordes works great with Reva, but I wouldn't hire MZs directly. Take Asura along with a Shieldbearer. Smack her up the field, and expect to drop two to four stones on MZs the first turn, summoned near the center of the board. Have a corpse Candle move twice and use their bonus action to get all the zombies moving. Now your opponent has a problem at the top of turn 2, since 4+ MZs supported by Asura are a legitimate problem for anyone. They threaten to scheme because of Asura, they can threaten markers, and in a pinch 4+ MZs can do some real damage. 

You can even follow up with Anna Lovelace and/or Carrian Effigy (which gets you 5 MZs turn 1), and/or Toshiro. If you go this strategy, I would make sure you have Toshiro, Blasphemous Ritual, and/or Killer Instinct to recycle the Corpse Markers that MZs drop, but not necessarily the MZs themselves!

I had considered summoning them in. This is about putting pressure on something by forward t1.

[ShinChan]

So, any ideas on how Reva and Revenant in general could be fixed/improved?

I've come up with this:

• The Forgotten Death: Allowing her to discard a card to summon up to 2 Corpse Candles, each one in base contact with a different corpse.
  • In this way, she can increase the number of pyre/corpse markers generated every turn.
• The Unquiet Dead: Add a small move to the Pyre marker, written in the ability itself or with a trigger.
  • So we add move Pyre marker mobility to the crew.
• New leader ability: I have two options here:
  • 1) Add a clause that says: If this model is the leader, other models ignore the restriction of "Once per activation" of "Spirits in Flames"
  • 2) During the activation phase, friendly models can treat their burning condition as if it where shielded (maybe this needs a better writing in order to not create confusion/weird interactions)
• Add any of these triggers to Embrace the flame:
  • After resolving, put the target in base contact with any Pyre marker within range (6" of Reva)
  • Remove any number of corpse markers within 3" of the target. The target gains shielded +1 for each corpse removed.

I think this abilities help with all the Fire/Pyre/Corpse/Shielded complicate (and not very rewarded) interactions that there are right now. Maybe some models would need to be revisited or adapted, but I haven't played some of them that much (Wanyudo and  Mourners mainly).

 

[MrPieChee]

Change spirits in the flames to: once per activation you may convert burning tokens to shielded (max 3?).

I think that does it in one go? Playing with the max value can balance as needed.

Removing the card requirement to summon a candle might be nice too.

*I'm a complete amateur at this game