Speeding up Lady J

[FinalForm]

12 hours ago, Ludvig said:

But then you can't take the scales.

Absolutely true, but we are talking about speeding up LJ and student is a legal way)

[Ludvig]

4 minutes ago, FinalForm said:

Absolutely true, but we are talking about speeding up LJ and student is a legal way)

True true, some people don't seem to rate the scales very highly either. You could fast her before burying her.

[Antipodean]

On 10/3/2017 at 4:07 AM, trikk said:

I find the Investigator to be the new Uberpusher. WIth 1-2 extra models for scheme markers you can get her around 9" up the field

Could you combine this with Queeg's ability to make all those models drop their scheme markers for free? Hmmmm....

[Fazza92]

Sorry Guys ,can I go a little off topic?

Only because I don’t want open a new topic for this 2 words...

i’ve the Opportunity to buy LadyJ and his totem at a ridiculous price.

But only they 2, death Marshall are not a problem beacause I probably go to buy a recruiters box,my question is...the judge ?

Is it obligatory with Justice Or I can play without he (Like henchmen I’ve Ryle,Francisco,Phiona)?

[Joachim]

I always play the emissary with lady j, because:

1. I have a limited model collection

2. I love the model

 

He has some weaknesses, but he has some nice stuff, don't underestimate the burry on a ca6. If you go in, and they also have lady j to deal with, and he can burry something scary and lady j kills something else, thats also a great way to keep him safer. I see the points that he is a big model and usually draws quite some attention, wp5 hurts him a bit, though armor 1 hard to kill 10 wounds is, as said, not that bad at all. 

In one game I overextended the emissary, he got obeyed closer and got recked by lynch, but then lady J pops out in his face and destroyed him back, and i eventually won that game.

I think that if you want to optimise every soulstone, there probably are better models to hire, but I take him cause I like the model and he does get the job done of delivering lady J safely, if he goes down, so be it.

 

[Joachim]

19 minutes ago, Fazza92 said:

Sorry Guys ,can I go a little off topic?

Only because I don’t want open a new topic for this 2 words...

i’ve the Opportunity to buy LadyJ and his totem at a ridiculous price.

But only they 2, death Marshall are not a problem beacause I probably go to buy a recruiters box,my question is...the judge ?

Is it obligatory with Justice Or I can play without he (Like henchmen I’ve Ryle,Francisco,Phiona)?

I always hire the judge with lady J but I don't have other henchman at the moment. I'm going to get the jury cause she seems to be really good with lady j and recruiters.

I've actually not hired a lot of death marshals since getting recruiters, cause at 1ss more they do so much more for you imo. I just can't see why I would hire a death marshal instead, unless I really need his pine box, also unimpeded can't be ignored depending on the map.

I think the judge is a very solid all-round model, but in no way essential to lady J. I also think that lady J is just very flexible in what she wants to hire. She likes some support to get her faster up the field, but she doesn't really interact that much with the crew.

[Gnomezilla]

7 hours ago, Antipodean said:

Could you combine this with Queeg's ability to make all those models drop their scheme markers for free? Hmmmm....

Yes. Yes, you can. It works a bit better with minions without 0s or with 0s they cannot use on turn one, but I have gotten a model almost over the centerline before it activated for the first time. Queeg wants to use his damage-and-push to start the fun, aura, scheme and push the next schemer up, walk...in order to get Queeg upfield so Promises is useful turn two, I choose that his auras don't reach all the way back to the deployment zone, activate the investigator early-ish to discard the scheme marker 3" in front of him left by the model pushed on Queeg's activation, and end the turn with a marker placed out front by a Wk4 or Wk5 double-walk-and-scheme. If I have a Wk6 that one may scheme for 1AP on the deployment line if I need that one extra push. Nothing slower schemes on 1AP. I ran out of legal locations for schemes faster than I ran out of 0 actions to use.

[Ludvig]

6 hours ago, Fazza92 said:

Sorry Guys ,can I go a little off topic?

Only because I don’t want open a new topic for this 2 words...

i’ve the Opportunity to buy LadyJ and his totem at a ridiculous price.

But only they 2, death Marshall are not a problem beacause I probably go to buy a recruiters box,my question is...the judge ?

Is it obligatory with Justice Or I can play without he (Like henchmen I’ve Ryle,Francisco,Phiona)?

Haven't played Lady J very much but you can play without any model if you want to. She doesn't have that much synergy with her theme except the recruiters who are great for keeping guild marshals alive. He brings his push, a decent attack and is survivable, there are other models that push her equally well and bring more damage. His upgrade is very good for making the emissary bury LJ turn one so she can alpha, you might actually miss that trick if you don't bring him. Abuela can eo it too but functions in a very different way in all other respects.

If you are only ever going to play Lady J I'm sure you can make do without him, you can't miss something you'vr never used. If you are thinking of getting into guild in general I wouldn't want to be without him.

[lame0]

soooo....I think you guys forgot about the best push there is and its just the undead pushing her lol.

emissary + dead doxie + master queeg + francisco + abuela 

abuela obeys the emissary to bury lady J 

Francisco gives the dead doxie  +2 wp +  walk 5 inches away from the emissary hermanos de armas the emissary then walk out of its way.

master queeg walks makes the dead doxie do her (0) on the emissary due to her now being wp7 (wp 8 on the first two castings due to scales...it could be all of them if you start her 5 inches behind the deployment line) she only needs 5s (4s) to pass queegs horror duel. 

queeg walks again and the doxies does the same thing again.

doxie goes uses her (0) on the emissary again. 

emissary walks twice and drops off Lady J 

So total its (5+5+5+5+6+6) = 32 inches of movement before lady J even activates lol. 

One cool thing about the move 32 is that you can be sure that you wont have to charge and wont have to acrobatic assault so you know the  for lady J are going to be there.  

Also if the brutal emissary ends up 20 inches up it should be able to charge(5+5+5+5+6+2= 28 inch range) then following up with its (0) would be pretty good because then its not a solo lady J charging its both of them ( and its (0) heals lady J and slows stuff around it). Also since it can use Lady J's attack its freaking brutal having 5 Lady J attacks turn 1. 

I also really like the idea of scales in this for the turn one because basically since you need to burn so many cards to move her up it works out to at least one probably two cards. Also later turns due to accomplice it is great at pushing abuela into range to shoot (5' push + 6' range is a respectable 11 inch shooting area and accomplice makes it harder stop).

List could be something like this:

Lady Justice

Scales of Justice

Brutal Emissary 

- Conflux of Judgment 

Francisco 

- Hermanos de armas

Master Queeg 

- promises 

Domador de Cadaveres 

Abuela Ortega

Dead Doxy

8 models 50/50 ss

(btw I like her new swordfighter upgrade it just doesn't fit in this list & seems like it might not be needed. Maybe I could put it in instead of promises....dunno)

[trikk]

42 minutes ago, lame0 said:

soooo....I think you guys forgot about the best push there is and its just the undead pushing her lol.

emissary + dead doxie + master queeg + francisco + abuela 

abuela obeys the emissary to bury lady J 

Francisco gives the dead doxie  +2 wp +  walk twice hermanos de armas the emissary

master queeg walks makes the dead doxie do her (0) on the emissary due to her now wp 7 (wp8 on the first one) she only needs 5s to pass queegs horror duel. 

queeg walks again and the doxies does the same thing again.

doxie goes uses her (0) on the emissary again. 

emissary walks twice and drops off Lady J 

So total its (5+5+5+5+6+6) = 32 inches of movement before lady J even activates lol. 

One cool thing about the move 32 is that you can be sure that you wont have to charge and wont have to acrobatic assault so you know the  for lady J are going to be there.  

Also if the brutal emissary ends up 20 inches up it should be able to charge(5+5+5+5+6+2= 28 inch range) then following up with its (0) which would be pretty good because then its not a solo lady J charging its both of them. Also since it can use Lady J's attack its freaking brutal having 5 Lady J attacks turn 1. 

I also really like the idea of scales in this for the turn one because basically since you need to burn so many cards to move her up it works out to at least one probably two cards. Also later turns due to accomplice it is great at pushing abuela into range to shoot (5' push + 6' range is a respectable 11 inch shooting area and accomplice makes it harder stop).

List could be something like this:

Lady Justice

Scales of Justice

Brutal Emissary 

- Conflux of Judgment 

Francisco 

- Hermanos de armas

Master Queeg 

- promises 

Domador de Cadaveres 

Abuela Ortega

Dead Doxy

8 models 50/50 ss

 

While this list makes Lady J superfast I do think its pretty bad.

[4thstringer]

1 hour ago, lame0 said:

soooo....I think you guys forgot about the best push there is and its just the undead pushing her lol.

emissary + dead doxie + master queeg + francisco + abuela 

abuela obeys the emissary to bury lady J 

Francisco gives the dead doxie  +2 wp +  walk 5 inches away from the emissary hermanos de armas the emissary then walk out of its way.

master queeg walks makes the dead doxie do her (0) on the emissary due to her now being wp7 (wp 8 on the first two castings due to scales...it could be all of them if you start her 5 inches behind the deployment line) she only needs 5s (4s) to pass queegs horror duel. 

queeg walks again and the doxies does the same thing again.

doxie goes uses her (0) on the emissary again. 

emissary walks twice and drops off Lady J 

So total its (5+5+5+5+6+6) = 32 inches of movement before lady J even activates lol. 

One cool thing about the move 32 is that you can be sure that you wont have to charge and wont have to acrobatic assault so you know the  for lady J are going to be there.  

Also if the brutal emissary ends up 20 inches up it should be able to charge(5+5+5+5+6+2= 28 inch range) then following up with its (0) would be pretty good because then its not a solo lady J charging its both of them ( and its (0) heals lady J and slows stuff around it). Also since it can use Lady J's attack its freaking brutal having 5 Lady J attacks turn 1. 

I also really like the idea of scales in this for the turn one because basically since you need to burn so many cards to move her up it works out to at least one probably two cards. Also later turns due to accomplice it is great at pushing abuela into range to shoot (5' push + 6' range is a respectable 11 inch shooting area and accomplice makes it harder stop).

List could be something like this:

Lady Justice

Scales of Justice

Brutal Emissary 

- Conflux of Judgment 

Francisco 

- Hermanos de armas

Master Queeg 

- promises 

Domador de Cadaveres 

Abuela Ortega

Dead Doxy

8 models 50/50 ss

(btw I like her new swordfighter upgrade it just doesn't fit in this list & seems like it might not be needed. Maybe I could put it in instead of promises....dunno)

I think you are doing 1 too many pushes with the doxy.  Queeg can only make it take a zero one extra time.

[Ludvig]

After the first time Queeg makes the doxy push she becomes immune to any horror duels from him since she passed one so iu can only get one from Queeg and one from her own activation.

[trikk]

I don`t really have issues with threat ranges in Justice. I usually get a charge T1 or T2 with 5-10" pushes. I pretty much prefer if the rest of my crew does schemes and offers more threats.

[Ludvig]

1 minute ago, trikk said:

I don`t really have issues with threat ranges in Justice. I usually get a charge T1 or T2 with 5-10" pushes. I pretty much prefer if the rest of my crew does schemes and offers more threats.

I would never begrudge anyone trying to push a model as far as humanly possible just for the heck of it. That is like a basic human right. In an actual list I can see your point

[lame0]

Lul I mean this was for the fun of it to see what the max I could get it to without making a 50ss list a total piece of garbage. It's not the best and doesn't have the best scheme running but hey it can move lol. Thanks for the correction on the horror duel I didn't think about it. 

I will say though that I think plenty of lists use a bunch of places and pushes to engage and all these models are pretty good in their own right though I guess it's a little support heavy for guild (though the emissary, frank & queeg aren't terrible damage pieces especially since the master of this crew is Mrs. CC herself.) 

[trikk]

7 hours ago, lame0 said:

Lul I mean this was for the fun of it to see what the max I could get it to without making a 50ss list a total piece of garbage. It's not the best and doesn't have the best scheme running but hey it can move lol. Thanks for the correction on the horror duel I didn't think about it. 

I will say though that I think plenty of lists use a bunch of places and pushes to engage and all these models are pretty good in their own right though I guess it's a little support heavy for guild (though the emissary, frank & queeg aren't terrible damage pieces especially since the master of this crew is Mrs. CC herself.) 

In a faction of a bazillion min 3-4 models and access to Debt Queeg and Emissary are pretty awful damage dealers

 

If the crew was for fun then I rest my case

[Ludvig]

I wouldn't call Queeg a damage dealer. He has roughly the damage output of a 4 ss model. The emissary is not much better in that department. They are both mobility/buff/light control pieces I would say.

[Bucket Monkey]

I find Queeg is often too far away from Justice for Promises to be of use (for her anyway), especially with Swordfighter upping her mobility once she is stuck in.  I had her hold up Shenlong, Izamu and the Lone Swordsman yesterday, df7 with auto-riposte, and she didn't get the promises buff all game, as Izamu was blocking the aura when he eventually got close,  I did use Queeg for one 3" push turn 1, but I didn't  need it and I wish I'd taken something else instead.

i do like the Emmisary and run him more than I probably should, The minimum damage is on the low end (though with Nellie I run him with debt for the one turn he can chain into lots of models for min 3) but the ability to drop Justice in and out of safety/combat can be invaluable, especially if Abuela/Judge is in the crew to do it in the same turn.

[trikk]

1 hour ago, Bucket Monkey said:

I find Queeg is often too far away from Justice for Promises to be of use (for her anyway), especially with Swordfighter upping her mobility once she is stuck in.  I had her hold up Shenlong, Izamu and the Lone Swordsman yesterday, df7 with auto-riposte, and she didn't get the promises buff all game, as Izamu was blocking the aura when he eventually got close,  I did use Queeg for one 3" push turn 1, but I didn't  need it and I wish I'd taken something else instead.

i do like the Emmisary and run him more than I probably should, The minimum damage is on the low end (though with Nellie I run him with debt for the one turn he can chain into lots of models for min 3) but the ability to drop Justice in and out of safety/combat can be invaluable, especially if Abuela/Judge is in the crew to do it in the same turn.

I think if the Emissary had the ram built in and a lower damage track he would be ok. The bury shenanigans are IMHO weak on enemy models. They are decent on Justice but its a 17-21SS investment which is not worth it. 

If you look at what the best Emissaries got- push+fast, +1Wk in an aura, another action triggers, +2 Focused, the Bury is super situational and pretty meh compared to it.

[Myyrä]

5 hours ago, trikk said:

If you look at what the best Emissaries got- push+fast, +1Wk in an aura, another action triggers, +2 Focused, the Bury is super situational and pretty meh compared to it.

Is it really? If you can activate before your opponent, that bury is as good as Paralyze or even better on occasion. Not working on masters is pretty annoying drawback though.

[trikk]

33 minutes ago, Myyrä said:

Is it really? If you can activate before your opponent, that bury is as good as Paralyze or even better on occasion. Not working on masters is pretty annoying drawback though.

You have to activate before your opponent. You have to hit. Emissary has to live until the end of the turn. Lots of ifs for the paralyze from a 10SS model when 5SS Nurses do it a lot easier.

[Myyrä]

2 minutes ago, trikk said:

You have to activate before your opponent. You have to hit. Emissary has to live until the end of the turn. Lots of ifs for the paralyze from a 10SS model when 5SS Nurses do it a lot easier.

You wouldn't want to hire him for just that, but it doesn't make it a waste of space on his card.

[RustAndTheCity]

Played with swordfighter lady J today vs Yan lo. Used Grimwell and Francisco with hermanos de Armas for pushes. Lady J was a wrecking ball. She killed shadow emissary, Yan lo, toshiro, soul Porter and a seishin over four turns. Swordfighter is so versatile for getting the + on damage.

[im_open_to_suggestions]

On ‎08‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 10:49 AM, trikk said:

I think if the Emissary had the ram built in and a lower damage track he would be ok. The bury shenanigans are IMHO weak on enemy models. They are decent on Justice but its a 17-21SS investment which is not worth it. 

If you look at what the best Emissaries got- push+fast, +1Wk in an aura, another action triggers, +2 Focused, the Bury is super situational and pretty meh compared to it.

I found the Bury absolutely fantastic in the Frame For Murder heavy GG17.  managing to bury their big beater that has ffm on it (archie or Howard usually) then making it pop out at the other side of the board where its useless for most of the game is hugely satisfying.

[Inquisitor Wall]

What about declaring a charge with a mounted guardsman?  That would move her 12"