Sizing issue with Mounted Guard

[Absolution Black]

Ok, serious question Wyrd.  Has there been a mess up with the sizing when it comes to the recent mounted models?  I only ask because there was  adebate about the size of Reva when she was made avaialbale at Gencon.  Now pictures are emerging of the Mounted Guard and the same thing seems to have happened.

When compared with previous mounted models (Lone marshal and McCabe) they look so much smaller.  Then comparison with some standing models (Sidir and a Rifleman) shows the female mounted guard to look way out of proportion.  Well, she isn't, but the horse seems to be.

I don't wish to start a flame war, but the first thought of mine was somewhere the scaling got messed up when sent to the manufacturers.  I'm guessing the Mounted Guard and Reva were sent at similar times so the error (if it is an error) wouldn't have been spotted until too late.  If it isn't an error, I am gobsmacked to be honest.

 

 

[Cadaverousbirth]

The year is 2016, the ponies march to war...

*quiet neighing in background*

[Hidelfon]

They look absolutely ridiculous...  Big mess up... 

[JDAntoine]

I just said it to a friend of mine.

Wyrd handles almost everything perfectly, great game, great miniatures, great feedback, great community, great promotions almost everything but scaling seems to be their kryptonite.

I'll write an in-character Nellie article about it. I'm fairly certain it's the Arcanists and MS&U screwing us over. 

Edit: The riders are actually decently sized, the horses/ponies however.

[Hagisman]

My best guess is that it is a cost cutting measure. If both mounted guards were the size of Lone Marshal or Pale Rider the box would probably be $65 instead of $45. But that's just my own estimate.

I'm glad I got the Wild Ones. They are a great alternative.

[Burnin' Coal]

This would have been my guess too...but as someone who really wanted to buy them I'd have settled with a box that contained just one figure with variant rider and horse parts and would have bought two boxes to create two in scale figures

[Cadaverousbirth]

14 minutes ago, Hagisman said:

My best guess is that it is a cost cutting measure. If both mounted guards were the size of Lone Marshal or Pale Rider the box would probably be $65 instead of $45. But that's just my own estimate.

I'm glad I got the Wild Ones. They are a great alternative.

In all honesty I would be happy to pay $60~ for two Lone Marshall sized minis, since that's fair between the LM being $35 on his own. As is I can't justify buying these war ponies at all.

I can let Reva go because she's supposed to be petite and riding a near-dead pony from her fluff. These are not supposed to be mini-horses. All this box says to me is convert something better.

[Math Mathonwy]

26 minutes ago, Hagisman said:

My best guess is that it is a cost cutting measure. If both mounted guards were the size of Lone Marshal or Pale Rider the box would probably be $65 instead of $45. But that's just my own estimate.

Yorogumo would beg to disagree  

(They are far bigger than those and there's three to a box)

[Math Mathonwy]

9 minutes ago, Cadaverousbirth said:

I can let Reva go because she's supposed to be petite and riding a near-dead pony from her fluff.

I believe that the "pony" was supposedly ridden by both her and Vincent and Vincent is humongous.

[Cadaverousbirth]

You have it wrong. Reva and the pony rode on Vincent.

[Ludvig]

48 minutes ago, Hagisman said:

My best guess is that it is a cost cutting measure. If both mounted guards were the size of Lone Marshal or Pale Rider the box would probably be $65 instead of $45. But that's just my own estimate.

I'm glad I got the Wild Ones. They are a great alternative.

Have you seen the Jorogumo box that comes with three models?

 

Edit: didn't read Math's comment before knee-jerk posting. 

[JDAntoine]

1 hour ago, Cadaverousbirth said:

In all honesty I would be happy to pay $60~ for two Lone Marshall sized minis, since that's fair between the LM being $35 on his own. As is I can't justify buying these war ponies at all.

I can let Reva go because she's supposed to be petite and riding a near-dead pony from her fluff. These are not supposed to be mini-horses. All this box says to me is convert something better.

Same here, I blame Ramos. This clearly is the work of Arcanist elite messing with our stock.

Malifaux Tattler will cover this the 14th, mark my words.

[Absolution Black]

Whoever is to blame, or if it is an intentional decision, they just look terrible alongside every other miniature.  I am going to look into seeing if any other horses, wyrd or not, may be suitable for them..

EDIT:  looking at the blueprints, both the lone marshals and McCabes horses are separate from the riders so maybe I can source just some bits...

[Hagisman]

1 hour ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Yorogumo would beg to disagree  

(They are far bigger than those and there's three to a box)

 

1 hour ago, Ludvig said:

Have you seen the Jorogumo box that comes with three models?

My assumption still stands. Rider models are vastly different than Yorogumo structurally. Whether this equals lower prices remains to be seen, but we can look at just the facts.

Models that are mounted(i.e. is an animal with a rider):

• Rooster Riders - $35 for 3 models
• Hooded Rider - $35 for 1 model
• Pale Rider - $35 for 1 model
• Dead Rider - $35 for 1 model
• Mech Rider - $35 for 1 model
• Lone Marshal - $35 for 1 model

Models that are spider like(i.e. Multiple thin appendages):

• Large Arachnids - $24 for 2 models
• Harold Langston - Sold in Crew Box. (Closest model to what Yorogumo could be fairly compared to in my opinion)

Based on pure plastics costs you could probably argue that bigger Mounted Guard would be on par with Yorogumo, but that doesn't include other costs of making the models, quality assurance, or the likelihood of selling the models compared with others.

[LunarSol]

This is definitely one of the big challenges with digital sculpting.  Height sliders are a problem (aka, every kneeling model ever).

I could also see it being cost cutting.  I'm sure there's some relevant data to the sales of their models that cost as much as box sets.  Might also be a pose/material issue.  As much as I love polystyrene, I've never been super happy with how horses or other large, organic creatures come out in it do to the engineering required.

Or it could just be a scale fail.  Regardless, unfortunate.

[Gnomezilla]

I went into more detail on the other thread, but in summary: I am now more tolerant of the compromises made to the poses of McCabe's horse and the pale rider now that I see what happens to a less posed horse being made to fit onto its base. Which is a shame as I otherwise quite support models being made to fit their bases.

59 minutes ago, JDAntoine said:

Same here, I blame Ramos. This clearly is the work of Arcanist elite messing with our stock.

Malifaux Tattler will cover this the 14th, mark my words.

*marks your words, with a red pen* For starters, it's Miners' and Steamfitters' Union, M&SU. (Nellie gets to make up words, and probably should at least once per article once she really starts to BS, but her proofreader would have caught the abbreviation.)

[Bengt]

15 hours ago, LunarSol said:

This is definitely one of the big challenges with digital sculpting.  Height sliders are a problem (aka, every kneeling model ever).

It really really shouldn't be. The scale in 3D programs is arbitrary and I wouldn't be surprised if any vanity mm relations in the sculpting program is lost anyway when the file is converted to whatever format the milling machine uses. It seems like one would have to provide the scaling information independently of the 3D file, i.e. this model is x mm along this axis. The kneeling models are all instances of several models on a single frame that should have different heights, right. So either this information is provided in a way that is open to interpretation (e.g. all models is x mm from feet to head) or there has been some language or cultural barriers to getting the size information across. What I find flabbergasting is that these kinks haven't been found and ironed out after four years (or however long Wyrd has done plastics). Do they like change production partners in China every year or something?

[Hagisman]

5 hours ago, Bengt said:

Do they like change production partners in China every year or something?

There was some change recently I think. But I don't know for certain what that means. I think one of the devs put an open letter about why brewmaster was delayed and it was because the moon shinobi were in 100 different pieces that could never been assembled correctly. I'm not sure if it resulted in a different distributor or if they were just able to clarify with the CAD guys.

[Tris]

Oh, in comparison they actually look terrible

And still I`m so hyped about playing them :/

[Cinnamon Bear]

Oh wow that is really disappointing to see. I was really looking forward to those

[The Warlock]

How do they look in comparison to the rest of the guardsman models? Don't have McCabe but wanted to use these with our Mimic Master Mattheson.

[Ludvig]

9 hours ago, The Warlock said:

How do they look in comparison to the rest of the guardsman models? Don't have McCabe but wanted to use these with our Mimic Master Mattheson.

There's a commparison to a rifleman in the pic above so you can judge for yorself. I don't remember if riflemen are big or small compared to others but I believe that at least Dashel is taller than them.

[JDAntoine]

The riders are actually decently sized, not big characters but they shouldn't be. The problem with these models strictly comes from their pony sized horses.
Which is a pain to the eyes because the Guild has quite a lot of cavalry models to begin with. 

[Absolution Black]

Yeah, the female rider is probably the correct scale to the rest of the range, the guy could be a smaller guy in the scheme of it I guess.  It is just the size of the ponies that looks...wrong.

 

 

[JDAntoine]

37 minutes ago, Absolution Black said:

Yeah, the female rider is probably the correct scale to the rest of the range, the guy could be a smaller guy in the scheme of it I guess.  It is just the size of the ponies that looks...wrong.

 

It is incredibly wrong, don't let anyone let you think else. I doubt Wyrd has seen this topic, I guess I could PM Aaron about it?

As said, I would have minded it less if the Guild didn't have that many cavalry models. As an example the Pale Rider is gigantic and a huge ex-Death Marshall isn't a suprise to anyone either. McCabe though is more or less our regular sized rider. The Riders on the models don't look very differently sized as McCabe, the Horses are really the odd one out. Just by eye-balling I can see they should be at least 20-25% bigger, propperly horse sized.

Jokes aside I think it's a pitty they came out this way and deem it very unlikely they will be changed. I guess the best we can do is hope for good sized alternatives. In practically all my lists I can't see myself running 2 but I certainly want to be able to run at least 1.