4thstringer Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 Congrats to Darth bilz for his guild victory at US nationals. I assume this means papabox is alive and well? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustAndTheCity Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 Sonnia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 That's what I heard. Continuing to push for those buffs to drop when the model leaves play, not because it's broken but just because it has made the meta so boring. Still, congrats to a well deserved win by Darth Bilz. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted September 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 That's what I heard. Continuing to push for those buffs to drop when the model leaves play, not because it's broken but just because it has made the meta so boring. Still, congrats to a well deserved win by Darth Bilz. Someone on reddit tried to argue that papabox is overrated the other day. I couldn't be bothered to Argue about it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 Someone on reddit tried to argue that papabox is overrated the other day. I couldn't be bothered to Argue about it. It's not unbeatable. It's not even RatJoy level stupid. It is beyond a doubt the most efficient Sonnia build, which is a shame since the Witch Hunters sub-faction has become really varied and interesting and she's actually fun to run in-theme. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santaclaws01 Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 I'd just like to point out this is the same winner as last year and he didn't run papa-in-a-box then, so I doubt he did it now either. @Icemyn would probably be able to give a more accurate rundown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapdancer Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 lol as a guild/tt player the ideas that the Sonnia papabox is OP is amusing. TT McCabe or Asami would eat her alive on any but the most terrain chocked board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 I'd just like to point out this is the same winner as last year and he didn't run papa-in-a-box then, so I doubt he did it now either. @Icemyn would probably be able to give a more accurate rundown. Fair enough, just passing on rumors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunarSol Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 It's not unbeatable. It's not even RatJoy level stupid. It is beyond a doubt the most efficient Sonnia build, which is a shame since the Witch Hunters sub-faction has become really varied and interesting and she's actually fun to run in-theme. True, though I wish the starter models felt more in theme. Visually they feel about as in theme as papabox to me and only fit because the card tells me they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 True, though I wish the starter models felt more in theme. Visually they feel about as in theme as papabox to me and only fit because the card tells me they do. Fair, they do look more generic creepy medical staff than weird science/magical torture medicine. Not that I know what that would look like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunarSol Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 Funny enough, I made that comment, then remembered that Papa is on my shelf with them, because that's where he best fits visually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 lol as a guild/tt player the ideas that the Sonnia papabox is OP is amusing. TT McCabe or Asami would eat her alive on any but the most terrain chocked board. I find your delusions amusing. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiDevant Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 Someone on reddit tried to argue that papabox is overrated the other day. I couldn't be bothered to Argue about it. That was likely me. I stand by what I said. 13ss for a to damage isn't as great as everyone makes it out to be. You're going to get similar mileage out of a Peacekeeper. Just focusing when you really need to is much more advantageous. The only master that it's really good with is Sonnia. Yes, it's higher on the power curve with one master but even then it's not game breaking. It's hardly any more OP than say two Austringers. It has nothing on what was Rat/Joy. Case in point with Nova, the Guild despite taking first, did not have a dominating showing or even a strong performance as a whole. Compared that to say Outcasts or Arcanists. You have a situation where one player is exceptional not the faction having a broken combo. I think a lot of the hate comes from the fact that very few cheap Guild models have synergy or actual combo power. That makes it one of the few examples that can be easily pointed to. Especially because it can be devastating if the opponent is unaware. Most savvy opponents are going to give it the respect and attention 13ss deserves. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 I'd just like to point out this is the same winner as last year and he didn't run papa-in-a-box then, so I doubt he did it now either. @Icemyn would probably be able to give a more accurate rundown. According to Icemyn he did use Papa-box last year so I'm not sure what you mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santaclaws01 Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 According to Icemyn he did use Papa-box last year so I'm not sure what you mean. So he did, must of have just gotten it mixed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icemyn Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 I'd just like to point out this is the same winner as last year and he didn't run papa-in-a-box then, so I doubt he did it now either. @Icemyn would probably be able to give a more accurate rundown. He ran papa box last year and ran it back this year. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 Any more insights? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 Sounds like Aionius would be a decent counter-pick against Mr Bilz. The thing is that I've seen a lot of good players pick that list apart when played by others so I'm not sure the combo is that broken. It would be a difference if half the top 10 consisted of Papabox Sonnia. Something tells me Bilz would place highly without the Papabox too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapdancer Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 he is a top player who picks the strongest guild crew build for most strats/scheme faction matchups. It is far from unbeatable. If I was fairly sure I was facing that it wouldn't be a problem to build a crew to take Sonia apart with relative ease. Using 13ss is, whilst expensive, very effective given how it changes Sonia. It does however limit crew numbers particularly if you have Franc and or the Emissary. A TT McCabe crew with activation control can place a beater with 4 attacks, min damage 3, double pos attacks, pos damage almost anywhere on the board. Took out Riva turn 1 in Sunday's tournament despite double shards and Riva only being 4" out of her deployment zone. McCabe had a 29" threat range the Beater 26"/32" depending on whether I burnt fast on movement. Whilst Sonia can hide from that she will be inhibited to the point the crew is crippled. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 he is a top player who picks the strongest guild crew build for most strats/scheme faction matchups. It is far from unbeatable. If I was fairly sure I was facing that it wouldn't be a problem to build a crew to take Sonia apart with relative ease. I have faced it (played by him) and took it apart with relative ease. Using 13ss is, whilst expensive, very effective given how it changes Sonia. It does however limit crew numbers particularly if you have Franc and or the Emissary. Emissary isn't that great with Sonnia, but Franc is pretty staple. The version of the list I play has about 9 activations on the first turn. How many does your McCabe list have? Should be about the same or even less unless you spam dogs or something. A TT McCabe crew with activation control can place a beater with 4 attacks, min damage 3, double pos attacks, pos damage almost anywhere on the board. Took out Riva turn 1 in Sunday's tournament despite double shards and Riva only being 4" out of her deployment zone. McCabe had a 29" threat range the Beater 26"/32" depending on whether I burnt fast on movement. Whilst Sonia can hide from that she will be inhibited to the point the crew is crippled. You can't get threat ranges like that without pushing your models forward. What do you think happens when you have model in the middle of the table and Sonnia activates? If you have enough cover to survive it, you won't be able to get past the flame walls, and if you don't, you are dead. Also, Reva is one of the most fragile masters in the game, and she doesn't have access to Francisco. Taking her down isn't such a huge feat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 I have faced it (played by him) and took it apart with relative ease. What does he play? What did you play? How was it? I am curious. As I play a ton of Sonnia I agree that the 30" threat range with 4 attacks with recalled training is a perfect situation when the Sonnia player walks 3 times towards that recalled training Lone Swordsman. Since its spread across multiple activations you can get shot twice and then flame walled off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 What does he play? What did you play? How was it? I am curious. It was over a year ago, so I don't exactly remember the details. I played one of my usual Perdita lists, and I think he played pretty standard Sonnia+Papa list, but didn't have Franc. Can't remember what he spent those extra SS on, but it was probably some useful minions. He might have had two Austringers and Pathfinder and maybe traps. The strategy was probably Squatter's rights. Perdita took quick care of Sonnia and the rest of his crew was no match for her either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 Would Frank change a lot? Isn`t it a bit of a "who shoots who" matchup because Sonnia with Papa can hurt Perdita pretty bad also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 Would Frank change a lot? Isn`t it a bit of a "who shoots who" matchup because Sonnia with Papa can hurt Perdita pretty bad also. Probably wouldn't change a lot if both players had similar hands, but if Sonnia should happen to get a better hand it would make a difference. Perdita has a significant advantage in the "who shoots who" contest because of her mobility and Companion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapdancer Posted September 5, 2016 Report Share Posted September 5, 2016 What does he play? What did you play? How was it? I am curious. As I play a ton of Sonnia I agree that the 30" threat range with 4 attacks with recalled training is a perfect situation when the Sonnia player walks 3 times towards that recalled training Lone Swordsman. Since its spread across multiple activations you can get shot twice and then flame walled of2f. Yasunori with nimble and fast so in activation movement is (if recall training dropped) 3" push, 6" nimble, 6" fast walk (if needed), 10" charge, 2" melee. With flight and HT3 it is pretty hard to hide from. I would push it 4" possible 8" off McCabe depending on Sonnia's position, cover and terrain she would have to move through. Yasunori can take a hit or two off Sonnia especially as I can terracotta away the first hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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