Small green pest removal service wanted...

[Hungering Derpness]

Gremlins.

Never has a more unpleasant word existed in the English dictionary. Time and again, I find my poor innocent hellspawn on the receiving end of flying pigs, charging pigs and enough ranged damage to make the Death Star feel inferior. Even on the occasions when I move into melee, everything seems to Squeal and run away, before inviting me to inspect the end of a shotgun.

I know there must be a way to beat them, I'm just finding it a little hard to see. I guess I'm mainly looking for general rather than specific strategies as such. My available models include:

Lilith

Lynch

Lucius

The models from each of those boxsets

Beckoners

Tannen

Tuco

Graves

Silurids

Bad Juju

 

One noteable absence from that list is Zoraida, despite having Juju and Silurids. This is partly because her playstyle is a little too similar to Lucius but mostly because she's dual faction with *those* things.

Halp plix

Edited September 23, 2015 by Hungering Derpness

[Nathan Caroland]

everything seems to Squeal and run away, before inviting me to inspect the end of a shotgun.

That made me laugh rather unexpectedly this morning. Thanks.

 

[zFiend]

The best counters to gremlins are out shoot them before they get to do the same. Blast them / keep them away. Summon like hell. Unfortunately with your list of models I wouldn't be very happy taking on the gremlins. 

Lilith might be your best bet, tangle shadows the key models out of the crew and tear them apart. Use forests to block you out of their sights and keep away from them. Save high cards for defenses on Lilith and hope they won't hit. Don't expose her still though as they will keep on hitting and hitting and with Lilith's wounds one lucky dumb luck and Lilith goes bye bye. 

[Math Mathonwy]

I know you said you were looking for general strategies but here's a specific nugget anyway: Gremlins like to cluster around Lenny - swapping Lenny for Fears Given Form Bad Juju (or Candy) with Lilith is hilarious. For you - not so much for the Gremlins.

As for general strategies, terrain is key to controlling Dumb Luck and limiting Squel options. Angle your Charges correctly! If the target doesn't have room to Push away from your Ml range, Squeel won't help them. You can even use your other models to set up these "traps".

[Philosfr]

I've only played against Gremlins 4 times so far. Brewmaster, Ophelia and McTavish. I've lost all of them, so I feel your pain. My lack of experience playing against them makes it difficult to offer advice, but I'm starting to figure out a few.

Next time I want to check the timing of abilities, it may make a difference. Teddy for example. I think his "Push into base contact" would happen after the Squeal trigger, keeping them from escaping. Barbaros (2) Ml action is similar I think. Angel Eyes would certainly add some anti-gremlin shooting action.

[Bodiless]

The most general advice I can give, and this is advice I got from an extremely good gremlin player, is to spread out and make them chase you around. Gremlins, as noted above, like to cluster up around Lenny, Slop Haulers, etc. With your models I would go with Lilith and the swampfiends as a base. And I can't recommend getting some Waldgeists strongly enough. Do NOT attempt to go head on into the Gremlin Death Ball for the exact reasons you list. Take schemes that let you spread out your troops and make him try to catch you, then pick things off with Lilith. Don't forget to use Wicked Vines either - that will hand out 3 points of damage to anything pushing away with Squeel. If you can tangle away Lenny or the Slop Hauler (I assume all gremlins crews have Slop Haulers) do it asap. 

[admiralvorkraft]

I wish I had Lilith every time I play against Gremlins. Tangle Shadows against models with generally low willpower would make pulling apart the knot of awful so much easier. Take out the healing and suddenly the Gremlins become balanced. What makes them seem broken is the free fast everywhere, if you can get the reckless wounds to stick you can get down to actually playing the game.

[Bodiless]

I've had reasonable success with Collodi too. Collodi + Brutal Effigy can match them on the Fast+Healing, and Collodi dishes out enough damage at range and steals enough AP that he can also start picking the ball apart. I might take Lazarus too, since people don't generally think blasts when they hear Neverborn and he has some good tricks with Collodi.

But more and more often in any game with NB I find myself asking "Why am I not just taking Lilith here?"

[SurreyLee]

I've had reasonable success with Collodi too. Collodi + Brutal Effigy can match them on the Fast+Healing, and Collodi dishes out enough damage at range and steals enough AP that he can also start picking the ball apart. I might take Lazarus too, since people don't generally think blasts when they hear Neverborn and he has some good tricks with Collodi.

But more and more often in any game with NB I find myself asking "Why am I not just taking Lilith here?"

Lazarus has had a lot of joy for me against gremlins. Also, Mature Nephilim has been the star performer in recent weeks. His rip in half trigger caused 4 out of 6 gremlins to fail a WP test which is huge. Clustering up is then not a problem but actually welcome. 

Other than that as mentioned above, use scenery and strategically placed charges to limit squeel (although both Opehelia and Somer can push any which way they choose....dirty).

Don't waste too many AP on Bayour gremlins either. They are annoying, for sure, but so much of their other stuff packs the real punch that you need to spend your AP wisely, especially as mentioned they all have "fast".

[SurreyLee]

Oh, and Barbaros's Challenge ability will go some way to protecting your other bits and pieces. It's my favourite ability in the game I think.

[Bodiless]

Barbaros is a little too pricey and squishy for my tastes. 

[Philosfr]

Barbaros is a little too pricey and squishy for my tastes. 

Squishy? Wow, that's not at all what I would call him. I take him as my tank and watch my opponent cry. Great defenses, moderately high wound count, defensive triggers, armor... other than hard to wound / hard to kill, I'm not sure what more you could ask out of the guy. And don't forget soulstones for damage prevent, and the possibility of upgrades to further that.

Yeah, he's expensive and sorta pillow-fisted. The Challenge counteracts that though, making it much harder for your opponent to ignore him.

I get him killed in many games, but that's only because I ram him down my opponents throat and force my opponent to deal with him, while the rest of my crew is doing whatever I want them to. Don't forget the Challenge prevents enemies from targeting their own models too. Captain targeting a friendly for a push? Lenny targeting a friendly to cheat in for a pig summon? Librarian trying to target a heal? All of those suddenly cause high WP duels or they fail. That right there is worth the 10 stones in my book.

[Bodiless]

10ss for 9 wounds and armor 1 on a model whose job it is to take fire is just a little too fragile for the cost for me. If he was cheaper, had more wounds, had better armor, had a defensive trigger against ranged, hard to kill or wound, etc I would rate him more highly. But at a base cost of 10 it is a significant part of my crew lost when he dies, and he will die if people focus on him. Yes, they have to invest some activations to do it, but the payoff for that is pretty high. 

[Brewmaster]

Lillith is going to have the easiest time against Gremlins TBH. The key things that make Gremlins hum are the things Lillith has the easiest time shutting down. Here's pointers to remember:

Gremlins want out activation. I do not care about losing models because that's dropping my 18 AP a turn to 12 AP a turn. So blanket effects, blasts, and multiple targets are always good actions to take.

Learn the key models. Break the Slop Hauler, break Lenny, and you'll have an easier time.

[Clockwork Top Hat]

Get some Waldergesits. With Lillith you can put out some nice cover and with bad juju + silurids you can get some nasty combinations. Put Hexed Amongst You on Bad Juju to have Waldergesist half way up the board very quickly.

[SurreyLee]

10ss for 9 wounds and armor 1 on a model whose job it is to take fire is just a little too fragile for the cost for me. If he was cheaper, had more wounds, had better armor, had a defensive trigger against ranged, hard to kill or wound, etc I would rate him more highly. But at a base cost of 10 it is a significant part of my crew lost when he dies, and he will die if people focus on him. Yes, they have to invest some activations to do it, but the payoff for that is pretty high. 

I find the trick to keeping Barby alive that little bit longer as well as making the most from the challenge ability, is to have him in combat. That way he's unlikely to be shot at and the challenge still works. 8inch bubble is quite significant giving over half the table in control. The fact he can also use soulstone as well means only a concentrated effort by a master/assassin style henchmen can really trouble him. 

[vulky]

Lilith, Juju, Waldgeist, Graves.

Deploy 3 Waldgeists 6'' from his deployment zone, turn one push juju forward with Graves, walk 12'' with Lilith, swap Juju with a Waldgeist (or with a gremlin if high cards), Charge (Flurry) with Juju.

Now theres a Terrifying 13 with a big ass engagement zone in his deployment zone, with an even bigger pulse resisted by Wp. If he dies? He'll come back after they kill a Waldgeist.

Get one Silurid or 2 Terror Tots to just run around and plant all of the markers.

 

If buying the trees is not an option you can try the same with maybe Tuco and Silurids (the forward deploy I mean), just make sure you deploy them in hard cover and you don't activate them before they get swapped. (Silurids this forward can make it ridiculous to deliver message or plant explosives at turn 2).

 

Else apply Box Pandora to face (As if you have any amount of control over the models you will eventually buy, only option is ALL).

Last game I applied Pandora to Ulix face my opponent almost cried... (He then won vs. other players so at least he saw that gremlins aren't bad (He was kinda new)).

[Omenbringer]

I notice you have Lucius listed up there. Best advice would be to purchase a pair of Austringers and apply to Green pests. That should help quite a bit.

You can also try spamming Wp tricks though be aware that Gremlin's aren't as weak against it as they were last edition. All Gremlin Masters have access to the Liquid Bravery upgrade. It goes a long way towards mitigating the Wp weakness.

[Carcosa]

Hmm.............

Another option might be having a few Depleted. They are great tar pits and can move fairly quickly with their "drawn to the light" by pulling each other along. 8 wounds HTW, HTK, explode on death, +1ML and  on disengaging strikes, all for a measly 4SS. Who cares if they never land a hit, just be engaged to stop the shooting, and blow up in the gremlins face.

 

 

[Eclipse]

Expanding on what Carcosa said: Mr. Graves pushes a Depleted up and walks. The other two frog leap at it, then walk twice. The first one frog leaps to them and then walks twice. Under cover, they won't go down. When they reach the middle of the enemy ranks, black blood and Brilliance explosions and slaps to the face will make the green buggers fold en masse. Did this when our playgroup was starting up with Malifaux. My opponent has given up on playing Gremlins since then and keeps looking for other cheese  

[Omenbringer]

Hmm.............

Another option might be having a few Depleted. They are great tar pits and can move fairly quickly with their "drawn to the light" by pulling each other along. 8 wounds HTW, HTK, explode on death, +1ML and  on disengaging strikes, all for a measly 4SS. Who cares if they never land a hit, just be engaged to stop the shooting, and blow up in the gremlins face.

 

 

Depleted are definitely good tarpits and an option, however, Gremlin's do have some good (and common) methods of disengaging without forcing checks (the Truffle Shuffle and Squeel! being good examples). In the end it will likely come down to the two of them just eating up each others activation's in a game of cat (depleted pounce to engage)  and mouse (Gremlin Pushes away and likely a ranged attack or two). This isn't necessarily a bad thing, just something to be aware of, especially if you are facing a gremlin summon list.

[Carcosa]

Squee only works if you damage someone with a melee attack, just don't attack and keep them engaged

[Eclipse]

Yeah, just stay there and watch them squirm while trying to get away. Oh, and if you have blast attacks, it doesn't matter whether you hit Graves, Depleted, or Gremlins: It all damage in the enemy cluster! Splish-splash!

Smexy avatar by the way, Carcosa.

[Ludvig]

Gremlins.

Never has a more unpleasant word existed in the English dictionary. Time and again, I find my poor innocent hellspawn on the receiving end of flying pigs, charging pigs and enough ranged damage to make the Death Star feel inferior. Even on the occasions when I move into melee, everything seems to Squeal and run away, before inviting me to inspect the end of a shotgun.

I know there must be a way to beat them, I'm just finding it a little hard to see. I guess I'm mainly looking for general rather than specific strategies as such. My available models include: (... Shortened)

One noteable absence from that list is Zoraida, despite having Juju and Silurids. This is partly because her playstyle is a little too similar to Lucius but mostly because she's dual faction with *those* things.

Halp plix

I'm noticing what I feel is a lack of the proper neverborn beaters in your list. Where is Teddy and The Mature Nephilim? Teddy has lovely, lovely pushes that cancel squeel and is tough to take down (especially if trying to shoot him when he has Mimic's blessing). The Mature Neph is often considered squishy but can do beautiful things to gremlin support models by charging through the pesky frontliners, it's also nice to one-shot the normal mooks with min damage. Again: Mimic's blessing on this guy makes shooty gremlins sad and you can set him/her up in cover and still charge which is amazing.

[Omenbringer]

Yeah, just stay there and watch them squirm while trying to get away. Oh, and if you have blast attacks, it doesn't matter whether you hit Graves, Depleted, or Gremlins: It all damage in the enemy cluster! Splish-splash!

Smexy avatar by the way, Carcosa.

Squee only works if you damage someone with a melee attack, just don't attack and keep them engaged

Seems like you all are a bit unfamiliar with the Truffle Shuffle. Piglets can easily disengage gremlins from melee entanglements. Given the original poster referenced "flying pigs" as an annoyance, trying to lock gremlins into melee to reduce their potency is not likely to be as an effective strategy.