Mr. Cooper's Dark Carnival - Homebrew Crew Brainstorm (part 1)

[Manic Mouse]

I think it's time for bed.  This crew is very cool though, the models are amazing.

 

I really like the Dance Macabre and Hazy condition.  It's kind of like a variation on terrifying which fits the theme.

 

The henchman could also have the Dance Macabre aura, it would be like this crews version of the poison McMourning auras.

[Kalkris]

At this time of night (presently 12:36AM EST), I think I shall very much join those ranks of the slumbering.

 

I do like the idea of Lola having Dansa Macabre as well. Let's talk more on this tomorrow though haha

 

~Lil Kalki

[Phinn]

Flying Monkey

 

 

Peon, Living, Totem (Mr. Cooper), Rare 3

 

 

Cost 4

 

 

Df 5     Wp 5     Wd 4     Wk 6     Cg 4     Ht 1

 

 

Abilities

 

Let Go of Me, You Little...: Enemy models in base contact with this model receive A Monkey on Your Back Condition that reads: "At the end of the move place every model that has Let Go of Me, You Little... Ability, that was in base contact with this model at the start of the move, into base contact with it again."

 

Insignificant: This model may not take Interact Actions.

 

Flight: This model is immune to falling damage and may ignore any terrain or models while moving.

 

Hard to Kill: While this model has 2 or more Wd remaining when it suffers damage, it may not be reduced to below 1 Wd.

 

Swarm: A Crew may hire up to three of this model.

 

 

Attack Actions

 

(1) Monkey Bussines (Ml 4 / Rst: Df / Rg: 1): Target suffers 0/1/2 damage.

Bullying: This attack deals +1 damage for every model with Let Go of Me, You Little... Ability in base contact with the target.

Those Bastards Bite!: After succeeding, target gains the Poison +1 Condition a number of times equal to the number of models with Let Go of Me, You Little... Ability in base contact with it.

Table Top: Move the target 1" a number of times equal to the number of models with Let Go of Me, You Little... Ability in base contact with it.

 

 

 

Tactical Actions

 

(1) Tug: Target an enemy model in base contact. Draw a card for every friendly model with Let Go of Me, You Little... Ability in base contact with the target, choose one card and add total of remaining Wounds of said models. Opponent does the same for the target and its friendly models that are in base contact with it. If your total is higher than your opponents, move the target this model's Cg. Models with Let Go of Me, You Little... Ability are ignored for the purpose of this move.

 

(2) Hey, Thats mine! (Ca 4 / TN: 13 ): Target an enemy model in base contact. Its controller discards a card, then you draw a card.

 

 

 

The idea was that Flying Monkeys would swarm someone and start bullying them - push, bite, tug at them, go through their pockets...

 

The idea behind the Tug Tactical Action is that Flying Monkeys would have advantage, when there would be more of them and that weaker models (models with fewer Wd reaming) would be easier to tug at. And it would be easier for the enemy model to defend, if there were some friends to help him, like hold him so that he wouldn't get dragged away.

 

 

 

Another thing... I think, that Mercury should be the one who has an Ability or Action called The Show Must Go On, not Mr. Cooper.

[Bengt]

Monkeys need to throw faeces.

[zFiend]

Monkeys need to throw faeces.

Please no.

[Patzer]

The Monkey on my Back idea is quite cool, Laika. I really feel they should have Grab and Drop though.

[Sezar]

IF the Mannequins are the Totems, which I am positive to, the Monkeys should probably be Insignificant Peons. Anyway, the Mannequins could still be Minions even if they cant interact, which could help on some Strats.

 

 

Still, I feel like Lola could make for a great Totem, a significant Enforcer one like Karina, not a free one like Huggy, and then Thin Lizzy could be a cool control-type Henchwoman and Mercury a bruiser-like Enforcer.

 

 

If the monkeys should keep the moving people shenanigans, that would deffinately be a (2) Action, even more if they were to be inmune to dissengaging that way. Also, Grab and Drop sounds cool, although on Ml 1 only, and only once per turn, imho.

[zFiend]

Well you could consider giving the undying non moving slowed downs mannequins Pounce like if you want them to be Coopers ml attacks and tone down from there.

[Victoria]

Mr. Cooper needs some sort of ability called "No More Mr. Nice Guy".  Please make this happen.  (If this has already been suggested, sorry, I didn't read the whole thread!)

[Victoria]

Just as long as this happens somehow

[zFiend]

Just as long as this happens somehow

That is what she has said as well

[Adran]

I've just read the story, and can't really see anything that makes the Dark Carnival crew Arcanist. Cooper is obviously in debt to the Neverborn, so doing what they want (In a similar reason to whya Jacob Lynch is neverborn), but I can't see anything that would tie them to the arcanist (Colette is using the Star Theatre as a smuggling front to shift Ramos' soulstone).

 

I would just leave them as neverborn, and  consider the ability to hire other show girls as an upgrade, "Outside acts - This crew may hire showgirls at no extra cost".

 

The Mummerettes seem much more totem like than the Flying monkeys. They should probably be easily summoned by Cooper, and possibly have a good effect, that sacrifices them at the end of the action.

 

Haze should do soemthignthing, but if you want it to be a stackable condition, you really need it to have a reason to b more than just the one level.

 

 

PS we already have signifigant Peons, Clockwork Traps

[zFiend]

to Adran.

[bstorz]

A little late to the party but I was thinking along the same lines as Adran about the Haze.  In reading the story the Haze seems to be the driving force behind the whole crew, much more than any one character.  I was thinking that a stackable condition would be a good way to represent it with each character interacting differently with the effect.

 

Each model (with the exception of Cooper) could have a zero action "Hazed and Confused" that is only available when they are within 18 inches of Cooper.  The reason why I chose 18" is because the table is 36 inches and since Cooper is the ring leader, he should be "center stage"  for maximum reach for the Haze to spread. 

 

The effect would grant the Hazed +1 condition to all enemy models within a certain Pulse effect distance of the performer, say 6 or 9 inches.  The smaller area of effect is the fact that the enemy models are watching this specific performers act.  The enemy models can only get the Hazed condition once per turn, but the effect can stack.  This way it represents that the longer the performance (game) lasts, the more apt the watcher is to be enthralled.

 

The Hazed condition can reduce the Wp by 1 for each point of Hazed the model has, but the Dark Carnival performers can use the Hazed condition for bonuses to hit/damage/some other effect specific to that Carnival model.  When the performer uses the bonus it reduces the Hazed condition by whatever amount they used to fuel their Hazed action.  By making it a condition, the opposing player doesn't feel like there isn't anything he could do to prevent the effects.  Make a 1 interact action "Snap out of it" that will reduce the Hazed condition by 1. This would represent during the story when the father was being pulled out of the effects as his son bumped into him.

 

I would also make the MI attacks of the crew go against willpower instead of defense.  This way the Dark Carnival player has to decide if he would rather get the bonus from the Hazed condition coming off of the other players WP or gain the bonus effect that is available to that specific Carnival model.  Plus it represents the willingness of the observers to allow themselves to be hurt.  In the story the father noticed that audience members were getting stabbed and didn't seem to care.

 

There was another poster who discussed an ability of Cooper called "Freely Given".  I think that was a great idea, but a little too powerful off the bat.  I would say that when the enemy uses a soulstone, Cooper would be able to draw a card, or draw two and discard one card.  Something along those lines.

 

Maybe make an upgrade that interacts with the Hazed condition, so that eventually (instead of a card) Cooper could get a stone when the enemy spends one, but only if the model that uses the stone has a certain level of Haze on them.  Eventually the father did give up his son.

 

I think that the Haze should be the foundation though since it was the driving force behind the narrative of the story.

[Dirial]

For some reason, I suddenly pity Justin....

 

Anyway, carry on.

[Clockwork Top Hat]

Not read the whole thread but after reading the story the crew should have some way of making your enemies models no longer count as friendly. Perhaps something like this

 

(2) Mesmerising performance (Ca 5   / Res: Wp / Rg: 10) Target model gains the Fascinated condition for the rest of the turn.

Fascinated: A model with the fascinated condition can not treat other models in their crew as friendly for the purpose of target selection. The affected model is still treated by other models as being friendly.

 

This could of course have triggers (perhaps slow or a push towards the user?)

 

The Ca value and range is probably not balanced and would depend on the model who had it.

[Jafar]

crazy idea,
maybe, if there is more "Haze" stacked on model than it's SS cost, if it's killed, it's not killed, but it becomes part of Cooper crew with 1 WD or something like this?

Is this too OP?

[Kalkris]

Good (early) afternoon, folks (and other times for those outside of my zone)!

 

I was the one who thought up "Freely Given" initially, and I think that "Whenever an enemy model spends or discardss a Soulstone, draw a card" sounds fairer by far.

 

And with regards to Jafar's idea, it might be a bit difficult but let's put it at this:

 

"Hazy +1: When this model would be killed under the control of the Crew that hired it, if it has an amount of the Hazy condition higher than its soulstone cost, instead it heals 3 Wd and Mr. Cooper's Crew gains control of it. Place this model in Mr. Cooper's Crew's deployment zone."

 

This might be a bit powerful but it would make good on the fluff of unexplained disappearances and enthrallment in the interim. We can debate more on what Hazy actually does later anyway haha

 

~~~~~

 

With regard to the (fantastic) totem debate: I am going to be putting up a second poll on that subject, with all possible options. I will probably make a third poll regarding keeping Mannequins as Mannequins or making them Mummerettes, but I have a feeling that one is pretty contained as well haha

 

~Lil Kalki

 

P.S. - in order to vote for the new options when you have already voted, just delete your vote and re-vote for the choices you want!

[Phinn]

Should Flying Monkey then be NON-Insignificant 5 SS Minion?

 

Flying Monkey Attack Action

(1) Monkey See, Monkey Throw (Sh 5 / Rst: Df / Rg: 8): Target suffers 1/2 /3 :blast. All models damaged by this Action receive Is That... Oh My God, It Is! Condition that reads: This models Wp is reduced by 1.

[Kalkris]

Should Flying Monkey then be NON-Insignificant 5 SS Minion?

 

Flying Monkey Attack Action

(1) Monkey See, Monkey Throw (Sh 5 / Rst: Df / Rg: 8): Target suffers 1/2 /3 :blast. All models damaged by this Action receive Is That... Oh My God, It Is! Condition that reads: This models Wp is reduced by 1.

Haha, nice poop joke

 

Also, I do think that if the Monkeys aren't our Totems, then yes, significant 5ss minions sounds pretty alright. That'll probably be the subject of the next poll, though, haha

 

~Lil Kalki

[Manic Mouse]

Well you could consider giving the undying non moving slowed downs mannequins Pounce like if you want them to be Coopers ml attacks and tone down from there.

 

That is exactly what I was thinking in work today actually!

 

Blade Mummerette

 

Inanimate: This model may only activate if there is a friendly Mr Cooper within 8".  When this model activates it gains the slow condition.

 

No strings: This model may not be pushed, placed, buried or sacrificed by enemy models.

 

Companion (Mr Cooper)

 

Pounce

 

Df -

Wp -

Wd -

Wk -

Cg -

Ht 2

 

Attack actions

 Twin blades, this attack receives a    to the attack flip

Ml 6, Rng 2" Damage 3/4/5

 

Mallet Mumerette

 

Inanimate: This model may only activate if there is a friendly Mr Cooper within 8".  When this model activates it gains the slow condition.

 

No strings: This model may not be pushed, placed, buried or sacrificed by enemy models.

 

Companion (Mr Cooper)

 

Pounce

 

Df -

Wp -

Wd -

Wk -

Cg -

Ht 2

 

Attack actions

Mallet smash, this attack receives a    to the damage flip

Ml 7, Rng 3" Damage 3/4/6

 

Mr Cooper could have the following abilities:

 

 (1) Silken scarf Ca7  resist: Df  2" 1/1/2 - models damaged by this attack again the "Hazy +1" condition

 trigger   - Push target model 4" in any direction (i.e. can be used to push models into the mummerettes, or also move the mumerettes)

 trigger   - target model gains the slow condition

 

Mummerette Shuffle (0)

 Ca 7  Tn 12

Any Mumerette models within 8" may be placed anywhere within 8" of this model

Triggers

 The show must go on: Mumerettes may make a (1) action after being placed

 Double time: A mummerette of your choice gains the fast condition

  Mummerette's boy: After placing the mummerettes this model may be placed in base contact with a mummerette within 8"

 The hand is swifter: After placing the mummerettes you may push one "mummer" (perhaps the quality of the crew members like tormented) model within 8" directly towards the mummerette

 

You could also give more models the ability to work with Hazy

 

For example baritone Lola could have the ability "Ew it touched me - enemy models that begin their activation in base contact with this model gain the "Hazy +1" condition

 

Thin Lizzy's Blow smoke marker could instead of giving -ve flips within it simply read "This counts as soft cover.  Enemy models that enter this area or begin their activation within this area gain the hazy +1 condition"

 

I was thinking you could have an interesting mechanic with Mercury where, after completely resolving an attack, he would do something based on whether he ends on odd or even wounds after taking damage e.g.: the flex: if this model suffers damage that reduces it to an odd number of wounds, after completely resolving the action, all enemy models within 3" gain the Hazy condition."

 

You could then use Mr Cooper's scarf to do 1 damage and push him into a group of enemies, giving them the haze condition.

 

I also thought Mercury could have the ability "Don't stop me now - when this model is reduced to 0 wounds, heal this model 1 wound for every enemy model affected by the "hazy" condition within 4", this model then gains the Slow condition"

[Kalkris]

Blade Mummerette

 

Inanimate: This model may only activate if there is a friendly Mr Cooper within 8".  When this model activates it gains the slow condition.

 

No strings: This model may not be pushed, placed, buried or sacrificed by enemy models.

 

Companion (Mr Cooper)

 

Pounce

 

Df -

Wp -

Wd -

Wk -

Cg -

Ht 2

 

Attack actions

 Twin blades, this attack receives a    to the attack flip

Ml 6, Rng 2" Damage 3/4/5

 

Mallet Mumerette

 

Inanimate: This model may only activate if there is a friendly Mr Cooper within 8".  When this model activates it gains the slow condition.

 

No strings: This model may not be pushed, placed, buried or sacrificed by enemy models.

 

Companion (Mr Cooper)

 

Pounce

 

Df -

Wp -

Wd -

Wk -

Cg -

Ht 2

 

Attack actions

Mallet smash, this attack receives a    to the damage flip

Ml 7, Rng 3" Damage 3/4/6

 

I still feel like the Mummerettes shouldn't be differentiated completely, but that's probably the topic of yet another poll. I have to tally the questions which need solving, I think.

 

Mr Cooper could have the following abilities:

 

 (1) Silken scarf Ca7  resist: Df  2" 1/1/2 - models damaged by this attack again the "Hazy +1" condition

 trigger   - Push target model 4" in any direction (i.e. can be used to push models into the mummerettes, or also move the mumerettes)

 trigger   - target model gains the slow condition

 

I like this as an option, but if we go this route, your T trigger should be M, and your C trigger TM. Also a T trigger to give Hazy+1, retaining the T in the stat for this signature move... I also think it should have a bit more oomph damage wise as he is a master, if not a higher Ca stat, like an 8T. And definitely into a Wp resist.

 

Mummerette Shuffle (0)

 Ca 7  Tn 12

Any Mumerette models within 8" may be placed anywhere within 8" of this model

Triggers

 The show must go on: Mumerettes may make a (1) action after being placed

 Double time: A mummerette of your choice gains the fast condition

  Mummerette's boy: After placing the mummerettes this model may be placed in base contact with a mummerette within 8"

 The hand is swifter: After placing the mummerettes you may push one "mummer" (perhaps the quality of the crew members like tormented) model within 8" directly towards the mummerette

 

The characteristic (the subject of yet another poll in the future!) should be debated but for now I'm thinking simply "Carny". And then, the triggers need to be more characteristic of the suits that cause the triggers. I think that the M trigger you have could be T, the T could be M, the C should be RM, and the R should be good as is. Based on where we are with this, I'd even suggest we omit the trigger that is presently T as that could be ridiculous movement for Cooper. 8" on a (0)? i mean, it's no relocate, but it's still quite powerful.

 

You could also give more models the ability to work with Hazy

 

I thought that to be a good idea too. I worry about design-space overlap with Lynch and his crew with Brilliance, though.

 

For example baritone Lola could have the ability "Ew it touched me - enemy models that begin their activation in base contact with this model gain the "Hazy +1" condition

 

I think this is a nice play on Candy's Sweets/Sours, if a bit close-quartered to be viable. Perhaps a range of A4?

 

Thin Lizzy's Blow smoke marker could instead of giving -ve flips within it simply read "This counts as soft cover.  Enemy models that enter this area or begin their activation within this area gain the hazy +1 condition"

 

I *really* like this idea. If we work with Hazy as a central theme (which I am certain we will), this or a similar ability is necessary. Maybe give Lizzy a fire-breath attack, too?

 

I was thinking you could have an interesting mechanic with Mercury where, after completely resolving an attack, he would do something based on whether he ends on odd or even wounds after taking damage e.g.: the flex: if this model suffers damage that reduces it to an odd number of wounds, after completely resolving the action, all enemy models within 3" gain the Hazy condition."

 

That is so wacky but that is a good thing. Can we give Mercury Regeneration +1 or +2 based on the retainment of this sort of ability?

 

You could then use Mr Cooper's scarf to do 1 damage and push him into a group of enemies, giving them the haze condition.

 

See above, where I remark on the Scarf attack. I think Cooper does need to propagate the Haze too.

 

I also thought Mercury could have the ability "Don't stop me now - when this model is reduced to 0 wounds, heal this model 1 wound for every enemy model affected by the "hazy" condition within 4", this model then gains the Slow condition"

 

Rather strong, even if he loses a single AP off of it. Perhaps only allow this ability to process if he hasn't yet activated, a la Manipulative?

 

Comments in bold yellow. I like a lot of these suggestions and think we can work on more of this once certain things are given more concrete poll results.

 

I will be supplying the results of the polls in the OP of this thread for reference before deleting them and reposting a new one(s), so if you want to look on to things like that, that would be where to look.

 

~Lil Kalki

[TimH]

As a Neverborn player who is interested in this crew I have been watching this thread for a bit and have a couple of ideas.

1.I don't think unkillable models (Levi style ones excluded) would be good for the game but I love the idea of his totems acting as a means of attack for the master.

2.I dislike the idea of giving him a crew specific condition (too much overlap with Lynch as previously mentioned by Kalkris. What if he was just good at passing out insignificant instead?

 

With this in mind I did some profile stats below.
 

 

Mummerette Peon (2SS) Rare2

 

Insignificant

 

Inanimate: This model may only take (0) actions duing its own activation.

 

No strings: This model may not be pushed, placed, buried or sacrificed by enemy models.

 

Dance Partners: Whenever another friendly Mummerette takes a (1) action that was not generated by Dance Partners this model may immediately take the same action.

 

Df/Wp   Any Easy Fix: After failing but before flipping for damage a friendlly Mr Cooper within 8'' may immediatley take the 'All a Part of the Show' Action Targetting this model.

 

 

Df 4

Wp 4
Wd 6
Wk 5
Cg -
Ht 2

 

Attack actions

 Stage Weapons, this attack receives a    to the attack flip

Ml 6, Rng 2" Damage 3/4/5

 

Tactical actions

Useless toy (0) Sacrifice this model.

 

Dance With Me!! (0) Ca5 TN10 Until the end of the turn this model has Pounce

 

 

Mr Cooper could have the following abilities:

 

All the Little People: This model gains +2 to his Ca when making attacks against Insgnificant models.

 

 (1) All a Part of the Show Ca5   (TN10 ) 8" Sacrifice target friendly model or target scrap counter. Summon a Mummerette into base contact with this model.

 trigger   The show must go on: The summoned model may make a (1) action after being smmoned.

 trigger  - A real beauty: Instead summon a Mannequuin

 

Obey (1)

 Ca 6  Tn 14

Normal Obey Text

 

For other abilities he would probably have some more insignificant interation but this here is mostly the relevant ideas with regards to making the mumerettes work.

[Kalkris]

 

As a Neverborn player who is interested in this crew I have been watching this thread for a bit and have a couple of ideas.

1.I don't think unkillable models (Levi style ones excluded) would be good for the game but I love the idea of his totems acting as a means of attack for the master.

2.I dislike the idea of giving him a crew specific condition (too much overlap with Lynch as previously mentioned by Kalkris. What if he was just good at passing out insignificant instead?

 

With this in mind I did some profile stats below.

 

 

Mummerette Peon (2SS) Rare2

 

Insignificant

 

Inanimate: This model may only take (0) actions duing its own activation.

 

No strings: This model may not be pushed, placed, buried or sacrificed by enemy models.

 

Dance Partners: Whenever another friendly Mummerette takes a (1) action that was not generated by Dance Partners this model may immediately take the same action.

 

Df/Wp   Any Easy Fix: After failing but before flipping for damage a friendlly Mr Cooper within 8'' may immediatley take the 'All a Part of the Show' Action Targetting this model.

 

 

Df 4

Wp 4

Wd 6

Wk 5

Cg -

Ht 2

 

Attack actions

 Stage Weapons, this attack receives a    to the attack flip

Ml 6, Rng 2" Damage 3/4/5

 

Tactical actions

Useless toy (0) Sacrifice this model.

 

Dance With Me!! (0) Ca5 TN10 Until the end of the turn this model has Pounce

 

 

Mr Cooper could have the following abilities:

 

All the Little People: This model gains +2 to his Ca when making attacks against Insgnificant models.

 

 (1) All a Part of the Show Ca5   (TN10 ) 8" Sacrifice target friendly model or target scrap counter. Summon a Mummerette into base contact with this model.

 trigger   The show must go on: The summoned model may make a (1) action after being smmoned.

 trigger  - A real beauty: Instead summon a Mannequuin

 

Obey (1)

 Ca 6  Tn 14

Normal Obey Text

 

For other abilities he would probably have some more insignificant interation but this here is mostly the relevant ideas with regards to making the mumerettes work.

 

I am honestly sort of worried that the Insignificant interaction (and the Obey) hearkens back a bit too much to Hamelin's design space, namely 1.5 Hamelin, which is probably a bad thing He even has/had a (0) action called Useless Toy, so we may want to rename that ability if we retain it (no biggie). But yeah, we don't want to have to use the degenerate parts of Hamelin in order to make this Master work. Between the way we have Hazy presently and the toying with Insignificant, I'd take Hazy any day, tbh.

 

I like the "Easy Fix" idea because it strongly discourages opponents from hitting the Mummerettes in proximity to Mr. Cooper, but it may be a bit strong considering that the damage flip is ignored since the target is no longer there after Cooper succeeds (if he does).

 

Other question needing answering (although fairly obvious I would imagine): Mummerettes: Puppets or no? lol

 

~Lil Kalki

[Kalkris]

Also, before I forget to post on it, Question 1 has been decided as of 12:00AM EST last night. And the results, by popular majority, are:

 

Dual Faction Arcanist/Neverborn!

 

What this likely means is that there will be a bit more playtesting before we can say this crew is finished enough to be good for the table (remember, this iteration of the crew is for casual games, so there isn't much rush to get them on the table intact - we won't even have legitimate cards for them, if that puts things in perspective).

 

However, this added amount of playtest means too that we can make Mr. Cooper's Dark Carnival even better!

 

So, Question 4 is up, and is a bit more boring: What shall Baritone Lola's Station Characteristic be? This one will end on 6/21, at 12:00AM EST. Pretty simple question - I expect it to be a bit more straightforward. We'll see!

 

~Lil Kalki

 

EDIT: Apparently the polling option is a bit wonky. I tried to enter new votes for the poll and it gave me Error #10355. If this is a constant for other people as well, let me know. I might postpone the Baritone Lola question for 6/20 so I can post it alongside two other questions in a Part II thread.