is anything considered overpowered?

[Vaiuri]

Perhaps he means Student of Steel?

[Bengt]

How did a totem Kill a Rail Golem?

A SoC with all the sister buffs active is pretty badass, 4/5/6 track with melee expert and  on attack. Only Ml 4 but then Rail Golem is Df 4.

[thebarbalag]

I think there are models that are just above and just below the power curve. For Masters, probably Dreamer, Nicodem, Ramos, and Ophelia (yes, all but one summoners) fall just above the curve, general models, Joss, Francisco, Belles, Bayou Gremlins...I'm sure there are others, and under-curve, you've got Samurai, Oiran, other stuff. These blips aren't truly under- or overpowered, really, I think they fall into the miasma of "perfection is impossible." Not broken, just a tad off. All of them can be dealt with.

 

There are, however, many situations in Malifaux when you can lose in crew selection, scheme selection, and simple luck (all of your face cards only show up on negative flips, the only time you see the Red Joker is on initiative, on turn one, hands that average 4-5 of the wrong suit, it happens) - all of these things can make your opponent's crew seem OP. You just have to play more games, learn the tricks of the other crew, give probability a chance to even out (something that Malifaux does so much better than dice-based games it's not even funny), and learn to make better choices with your own crew, both in crew selection, scheme selection, and AP expenditure. Always  be asking yourself, "Is it that my opponent's crew was better, or did my opponent make better choices? Does my crew suck, or did I have bad luck? Did I lose to bad luck, or did I make poor choices that made me vulnerable to bad luck?"

[Icemyn]

 

 

Levi and dreamer burying removing all condtions is what they do. to try writing out they remove all condtions cept vp scoring ones would take up way way way to much text.

 

 

Honestly, I don't think this would be too hard to fix. If you just changed the text on distract and cursed object to say not be removable at all except by taking the action it works. I don't see any reason this change shouldn't be made honestly, Levi and the Dreamer don't need the immunity. 

[Solicitor 6]

Always  be asking yourself, "Is it that my opponent's crew was better, or did my opponent make better choices? Does my crew suck, or did I have bad luck? Did I lose to bad luck, or did I make poor choices that made me vulnerable to bad luck?"

 

I think a lot of it comes down to your opponent and their skill level.  A couple weeks ago, I had a game against one of the best players at the FLGS.  In a tournament at the start of the summer, he tabled me by Turn 3 with his Ortega crew.  In this second encounter, he didn't have his Malifaux with him, so I leant him Mei Feng for a 35 stone game.  He had never played Mei before.  He tabled me by Turn 3, pulling out combos and stringing moves together that I hadn't realize I could pull off with Mei. 

 

It is just a matter of becoming familiar with the game, the models and learning what they can do.  I appreciated taking that drudging with my own crew as I learned and appreciated what I have (still being fairly new as a player).  In my hands currently, Mei is average and I have a 50/50 shot of winning with a similarly experienced opponent.  But in another's hands...look out.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Levi and dreamer burying removing all condtions is what they do. to try writing out they remove all condtions cept vp scoring ones would take up way way way to much text.t.

 

I without question disagree with this. One of the BIG, gigantic, and massive issues I have with both the Dreamer and Levi is that they don't interact with a few of the base VP conditions in a fair manner. In my opinion one of the main reasons why Chompy and the Viks, and others of their ilk were changed from being double model masters, was because of how they screwed around with the basic rules of how to win the game. If you wanted to Assassinate the Dreamer it was almost impossible because you had to kill both The Dreamer AND Chompy to get the points.

 

They changed that, much to the better, but because of other issues they let slip through another rules interaction that is just not right. Levi and the Dreamer were given the condition removal for a good reason, but that reason had nothing to do with being able to clear VP generating conditions, it had to do with conditions liked the Hanged's Whisper from beyond, which totally destroyed the way Levi was intended to work.

 

I agree with Icemyn, it wouldn't require multiple lines of text, and it wouldn't require rewriting any card, all it would take is a one line rule added to each VP generating condition that said the only way the condition could be removed was through the actions that scheme or start specified.

[mythicFOX]

 

There are, however, many situations in Malifaux when you can lose in crew selection, scheme selection

 

To expand on this I'd argue every decision you make up until the first opposed duel is an opportunity to lose the game.  A big part of being good at Malifaux is not losing the game before you start to fight your opponent. My opponents lose far more games than I win.

[mythicFOX]

@ Fetid - we're only talking about Distract and Cursed Object though right?

[The Godlyness]

Assassinate is a poor choice against them also. Much poorer v levy ofc but dreamer can hide buried Also.

[hypoking]

If you want to talk about masters invalidating schemes the go to realy should be Levi and assassinate.

[The Godlyness]

Hypoking why you get a like for repeating what I said. Psh I call bs lol.

[jonahmaul]

Perhaps he means Student of Steel?

Whoops, yes I did!

 

The rules for Cursed Object and Distract do say that they can't be removed by any other action apart from the interact action.  How to Levi/Dreamer change this?

[hypoking]

Truly there's no justice in the world.

[Bengt]

Whoops, yes I did!

 

The rules for Cursed Object and Distract do say that they can't be removed by any other action apart from the interact action.  How to Levi/Dreamer change this?

They say "No other Action may remove this Condition." Dreamer and Leveticus have their conditions removed by an Ability, not an Action.

[Sybaris]

OP? few and far between if any. 

 

Annoyingly good? yes quite a few...but the specific miscreants depend on what faction/master/crew you play.

 

Say, if i face Austringers...i know my nephilims are in deep trouble right there, but it won't be necessarily the case for another crew. Given the diversity of the game, imho it's pretty well balanced.

[Cats Laughing]

Assassinate is a poor choice against them also. Much poorer v levy ofc but dreamer can hide buried Also.

 

If you work at it, you can force the Dreamer to unbury, then properly kill him.  Dreamer & Assassinate isn't a huge problem and 3vp from the scheme is possible.  It's challenging, but not impossible.  Levi (I think, no cards to verify) can't give up 3vp for assassinate, ever... (edit, I was wrong, see replies below)

[Inquisitor Wall]

I stumbled across this thread right after listening to the desperate mercs podcast on my way home from work. The idea that there are so many "broken" combos across all of the factions really helps to make the game more balanced. Can some models do things really well, or consistently, absolutely. Some tricks are really powerful but I really feel that most models can do some really "broken things". These are the same things that help give malifaux great variety, and make the game interesting. I really feel that the game would suffer much more if all of the models were too similar.

Also with the inability of masters to make actions irresistible (adding soulstone total to duel total last edition), having really strong mechanics for them help to keep the character driven story aspect in place. Are some masters impossible to assassinate? Sure, then don't use that scheme if they have those masters. There is a reason you have 5 schemes to choose from.

[Bengt]

If you work at it, you can force the Dreamer to unbury, then properly kill him.  Dreamer & Assassinate isn't a huge problem and 3vp from the scheme is possible.  It's challenging, but not impossible.  Levi (I think, no cards to verify) can't give up 3vp for assassinate, ever...

What about Void wretches killing him while he's buried?

[Lucidicide]

My mod powers are overpowered. I mean, I could lock this thread right now! Mwhahahahaha!

 

Anyway, carry on.

[Cats Laughing]

What about Void wretches killing him while he's buried?

 

Not sure on how that got ruled, but doesn't he still just bury (stay buried) and heal all damage?

[Ausplosions]

Not sure on how that got ruled, but doesn't he still just bury (stay buried) and heal all damage?

No. He dies.

Also see Hamelin and Nix for denying Distract and Cursed Object.

[The Godlyness]

yeah they not care for condtions its amazing. all these book 2 things that make book one seem obsolete right? right ? Wrong. adapt and overcome

[Cats Laughing]

No. He dies.

 

Oh that's good.

Thanks.

 

Did quick search to verify:

Rules query here: http://wyrd-games.net/community/topic/93112-Leveticus-and-void-maw/?hl=Leveticus#entry618067

Appears to be answered by book.

[rgarbonzo]

Yes there is one thing that is overpowered Rasputina's Overpower trigger

[moxypoo]

I agree with the general mentality in this thread that all models are quite well balanced, though there are a few outliers above and below the curve.  You’ll have this with any game, because it’s obviously impossible to achieve perfect balance.  For anyone who hasn’t played many other wargames, I would suggest trying to play Warhammer 40k for a little while to put Malifaux’s balance into perspective.  In 40k, the balance is often pretty bad, so there are very black and white choices in terms of what to take vs. what not to take.  In Malifaux, the balance is so good that almost every model can be an option. 

 

That said, some of the outliers my friends and I have identified are:

 

Rail Golem – My personal pet peeve.  I think he’s slightly too good for his cost, because Locomotion can generally give him multiple extra AP each turn.  Combined with the fact that he’s tough kill makes me think he’s slightly above the curve.

 

Ashes and Dust – One of my favorite models.  It’s slightly above the curve as well, simply because of how hard it is to kill.  However, this is only really exacerbated in the hands of good Ashes and Dust player.  I find that Ashes and Dust is one of the most frustrating models for new players to play against.

 

Ramos’s summoning ability – It’s very resource intensive to summon lots of Steam Arachnids, but given how good they are in terms of scheme completion, it’s very powerful to be able to summon 30+ SS worth of these during a game.  I think this brings Ramos slightly above the curve.

 

Karina – She’s under the curve.  After playing her a bunch of times it seems like she tries to do too much without being particularly effective at any of these things.  However, her new upgrade may change this.  Excited to try it out!

 

I’ve been wracking my brain trying to figure out more models to add to this list, and it’s been really tough to come up with any other ones!  This is testament to how well the open beta went, in my opinion.

 

In regards to the Leve/Dreamer/scheme immunity discussion – my group doesn’t see this as a big deal.  Sure it’s tough if not impossible to tag Leveticus or the Dreamer with Cursed Object, Assassinate, or Distract, but that’s why you have the pool of 5 schemes.  If you suspect you opponent is going to play the Dreamer or Leveticus, it’s not a good idea to take assassinate. 

 

Also, part of the strategy of crew selection in this game is not only selecting a good crew for your chosen schemes, but analyzing the scheme pool and selecting a crew that limits the ability of your opponent to accomplish schemes.