New to the Game - the unnecessary obscurity?

[No Gods or Kings. Only Man]

A short time ago I started looking around for a skirmish game to introduce to my group. We'd been trying the rulesets available for the warhammer 40k books, and found it wanting. It's a poorly balanced game to begin with, and the skirmish rules anything but made that better.

 

I'd heard about Malifaux many times, but it had just never caught my interest, but then I drifted in to reading up on it as I was looking around... and the more I found the better it got.

 

But why is everything so hard to find?

The official site has no real gallery showing off the factions and models. When I enter a game, I want to see all the factions and I want to see the models painted up, shown on a typical (overly beautiful, of course) battlefield. I want to be able to skim through them all until something catches my fancy, and that is what I will throw down my money on.

 

With Malifaux, I have no such gallery. Most images I find on shops are terribly small, or only 3d renders.

I can find the models as I go along on the internet, but it takes a lot of legwork.

 

I also can't really figure out what the Second Wave means. First and second edition rules is easy enough to figure out. Two is bigger than one, so I just discarded any thoughts about getting the First Edition and got the second.

But now all of a sudden I'm hearing people talk about a "Second Wave Book." What's that?

 

I think Wyrd as a company are suffering from too much omniscience. They know everything about their product, so they're blind to what parts the customer is having a hard time finding.

 

I think an in-your-face gallery (like it should have a banner on the front page, taking up like a third of the screen pointing you to it!) showing off the game, listed by factions, painted by pros would really help the game take off in places not so close to conventions. I get the feeling that Wyrd promotes the game at game-cons and probably does so quite well. But the internet-side of it is suffering.

 

Also, could someone explain the whole wave 2 thing to me?

[Mako]

You've arrived in the tail end of an edition change. The public beta testing for that was done in two waves - Wave 1 was released in August last year, and Wave 2 has finished testing, ready for the new book in August this year. So the Wave 2 book is the other half of the new edition's stats and upgrades, along with fluff and such. It's M2E part b, in effect.

 

As for the gallery, Wyrd don't get their models painted for the site or the boxes these days. It's a significant expense and a highly variable time delay factor they have chosen not to have, so the renders and art are what is used. Same for boards with models on, its a lot of time and effort to set that kind of thing up. I believe it has been stated that there are no current plans to change to painted versions again.

 

That said, I can totally see how it gets confusing not being able to see said renders easily. The models are all being changed over to plastic though, so some aren't done yet and are only available as metals. Some metals are out of stock and waiting for the plastics, I think. Anything that is available is generally on the Wyrd store, with pictures of the renders for the plastics.

 

I do agree that, as the line change gets further on, a gallery of the renders and art might be good to have. It's something that may well get included as I believe the web presence is being slowly overhauled. Or the store will serve as that, once the majority of the plastic line is available.

[Simian]

so malifaux is on its second edition of rules.

 

Wave one was the first batch of models released with all the rules in the first book published for M2e

Wave two went through public beta testing of the rules to test balance etc earlier on this year and will now these are finalised (you can download the cards for these rules from the downloads section)  these will be put into a book at some point and this will be the second wave book you mention.

 

M2e artwork is here http://wyrd-games.net/community/gallery/category/2-m2e-artwork/

and there are pictures of painted models here http://wyrd-games.net/community/gallery/

both available through the gallery link at the top of the page.

 

edit - i should add, im also fairly new to the game and noticed some of the same things as you. but the biggest and best resource you have is these forums. the amount of people that are willing to help is great.

 

also on FB if you use that, look for "A Wyrd place", more really helpful people (and painters that make me very jealous)

[No Gods or Kings. Only Man]

Thanks for the help guys. It's at the very least very reassuring to know that there is a real beta testing phase, something GW has never been able to grasp.

 

I don't find the renders to be good enough when looking at what to buy. They're fine as teasers before the molds come in, but I want to see what the model looks like on the table, and I want to know what it looks like painted.

 

The things like beta testing and the whole attitude of Wyrd as a company makes me instantly like them a lot. It's obvious they're trying to make a game enjoyable, but they are trying to make a game that they can be proud of. They seem to care about every aspect, from the balance to the fluff to the model quality (because the models, especially the new ones, are absolutely stunning!)

 

They are also being Good Guy Wyrd. "Here are the PDFs. We'll release a book later. We know you'll want it even if we give you these for free, because it will ooze quality."

 

Like I said, all these things makes me really like Wyrd as a company... but they seem to fail to understand "the casual."

They've made all of this so that the hardcores will love them for it, but no flashy gallery (read: advertisement) means the game isn't gonna get the wide spread it could have. The wide spread that Wyrd deserves.

 

I'm sure they have people thinking about these things that know what they're doing... I just can't shake the feeling that if I had ended up at a gallery made to grab my attention, I would have started playing Malifaux a year ago.

[Shadowfane]

To be fair, the models DO look almost exactly like the renders....

[Fetid Strumpet]

Hey, Welcome to Malifaux!

 

To be honest this idea of the painted miniatures has been kicking around for awhile. I remember back in the days when the models for the third book were being released how it seemed to me like every single month there were complaints about the models that were coming out, until they were in peoples hands, and then they was a non-stop parade of posts on how the model was fine, but it was the paint job that was terrible and made the model less attractive to buy. This is a personal observation, and the truth might be different from what I remember, but that's what I saw.

 

Anyway you aren't alone in some of your thinking, here's a link to a thread that addressed some of your points:

 

http://wyrd-games.net/community/topic/100851-malifaux-website-is-far-to-confusing

 

 

 

Also, just for Wyrd's perspective on the painted promo issue, here is a post from one of the owners and founders of the company from that thread on why they currently do what they do for marketing.

 

 

 

Painting, been around the block on that discussion as well. When we painted stuff, people bitched that we hid things and did 'paint' tricks to make things look better than they were. When we don't paint things, people bellyache that they want to see what it looks like painted up and blah blah blah. When it's painted by a professional it intimidates someone. When it's painted by a hobbiest just starting out, it doesn't do the piece justice. 

 

Quite bluntly, we have quite a bit of stuff painted up by painters, for our shows (and y'all interact with a few of them here already on the boards and don't know it) but unless we bring an in house painter (possibly, but we'll see), the odds of ever dealing with putting painted product on our packaging again, isn't going to happen. Quite bluntly, and nothing against the good folks, but in the past there have been MONTHS of delays due to waiting for someone to finish a commission and get it back to us, or photos we could use to do so. Don't get me wrong, there are some paint demons out there who just love this ... but then you deal with burn out, real life, accidents or just plain ol' 'I don't wanna' moments. 

[underdog6750]

I think your best bet is to go browse some of the longer running painting threads on here mako & viruk are my personal favorites and are both such genuine and nice people to chat to. They will offer painting advice that you would normally pay for in the like of the 'hot lead painting tutorials' etc for free. Purely because they can and want to help people enjoy a hobby the love as well.

If after browsing the miniatures show case you still aren't feeling any love. Download the wyrd chronicles. Its wyrds version of white dwarf etc and yep you guessed again its free. Wyrd aren't given over to the mass consumerism like other games manufacturers. I guess they believe there products are good enough to not need a studio paint job and computer grafics to make there products look cool.

Lastly if after this you are still undicided you can get the rules book (small) and 2 master starter boxes for about £50 give or take. Its the price of 2 units for most other war games. So take a gamble and invest some money and take the gamble. Worst case you don't like it. They end up on ebay and you will loose about 5-10% of the value if the are unpainted still

9/10 people wont be selling. They will be searching for local stockists'.

Anyway sorry for going on a bit. I have recently returned to malifaux after about a year and a half away from the game and am loving the new rules once again.

Finally welcome to the community and hope you enjoy your stay

[rythos42]

The PullMyFinger wiki has some painted models for some items if you want to browse. Unfortunately, as it's a fan effort, not every article has a model in it. Still, it's a fantastic resource for a new player!

[Tuttleboy]

If you do Facebook at all, join the group "A Wyrd Place". Lots and lots of painting, advice on running events and it's a good group.

[Bengt]

Adding a more comprehensive community curated gallery to PullMyFinger would be great I think. Assuming you can host loads and loads of images on wikispaces? Someone wiki-literate should probably have a think about images sizes, organization, licenses etc and then call for submissions.

[Eldarion]

I also can't really figure out what the Second Wave means. First and second edition rules is easy enough to figure out. Two is bigger than one, so I just discarded any thoughts about getting the First Edition and got the second.

But now all of a sudden I'm hearing people talk about a "Second Wave Book." What's that?

 

As people have indicated, they split the models (more-or-less) in half, and got the first half fully beta tested for the 2nd Ed release, witht he final stats (and cards) for the remainder coming soon.

 

If you read old forum posts / blog sites, you might run into the "wave" terminology there as well, as the 1st Ed had three expansion books, each of which introduced a batch of new models to the game.  I don't think those were officially called waves, though.

 

There have been discussions in the past about photos of painted miniatures, and I have stated my agreement with their reasons for not including painted mini photos on the boxes - it would cause a significant delay in releasing the minis.  Additionally, I seem to recall someone stating that there were a few extended delays in the past when the people who were supposed to paint a mini for a package failed to follow through.  Having painted minis in faction pages does sound like a good idea, as supplements to the concept art.  They could even gather images from the existing Gallery (with permission from the posters, of course).

[bowchikawowers]

http://wyrd-games.net/community/topic/71336-makos-crews/#entry302153

Good gallery to check out. Mako's a pretty awesome painter, and just an all around cool guy. Worth checking out his stuff. He does do a good amount of conversion work and some straight up original sculpt, but he's pretty good about stating up front when he does. And they're well worth seeing.

[Justin]

Adding a more comprehensive community curated gallery to PullMyFinger would be great I think. Assuming you can host loads and loads of images on wikispaces? Someone wiki-literate should probably have a think about images sizes, organization, licenses etc and then call for submissions.

 

You can pretty much just start doing that.

 

PMF has loads more space, and there's no conflict with Wyrd.

[deValmont]

  I think one of the main arguments for showing art and renders, and NOT painted models is that it can give a very skewed idea of the model. Games Workshop are very guilty of this, they release a picture of a model with massively detailed flowing robes and swirling, windswept hair. Then you get the model and the cape is flat and featureless and the hair looks like a crash helmet. If you buy a model having only seen a high-level pro paintjob then you're going to be disappointed when you get it and it doesn't have the detail the picture showed. I know how well I can paint and so when I look at the render I can visualise how it's going to look when I paint it.

 

  The advantage to getting into Malifaux now, though, is that there are loads of pictures out there of really well painted crews so a quick Google will show you a wide range of possibilities to paint the models. If we had to wait for the models to be cast, sent to the painter, painted, sent back to Wyrd, photographed, and then the photographs added to the box art I fear that we wouldn't have half of the models released that we do. (And no offence to Wyrd, but we really don't want to risk any other delays to the release schedule! )

[yool1981]

I started Malifaux a while ago in addition to Warmachine (I've dropped GW completely).

I also think that the website is quite messy compared to other brands and that the absence of fluff synthesis (the Event doesn't appear on the site or the M2E fulff book) is a bit annoying. Moreover, I was really afraid when I only saw renders for the plastic minis.

 

I have now purchased all the plastic Neverborn and they are asolutely gorgeous. They look exactly like the render. However, some will need a bit of green stuffing especially the Hungering Darkness (this is an older kit, this model is terrible to fix with green stuff) and the Mature Nephilim. Other than those few models we are reaching near perfection (Teddy was a joy to assemble).

I know now that I can really trust the renders and that Wyrd will not hesitate to delay a new mini if they are not happy with the model.

 

On the opposite side, PP shows products painted by pros that have requirements for not being too good to avoid making the customer afraid. The result is that the minis are often better in real life as on the website, especially if you are a painter with average skills or more. I thus prefer Wyrd's strategy by far.

 

So, all in all, I think that Wyrd has made an awesome game and that the minis are incredible. They just need to take the time to better organize the website and maybe synthesize the fluff so that it is easier for the beginner to get a grasp of the whole picture and identifiy to the characters of the storyline.

I'm really OK with the renders only, especially if it keeps the price of the minis cheap.

[Ausplosions]

Agreed on the fluff.

Hell, on the main Page, only the guild has a breakdown of masters. And then it's only wave 1.

Pretty uninspiring.

[Clement]

I still remember not wanting to start ressers because the only master I liked (Nico) had this weird patchwork coat going on that I just didn't like the look of. Turns out it was all freehanded, and the model wasn't covered in tiny seams. Go figure.

In my experience showing painted minis generates as many problems as it solves. Between the concept art and the shaded render, you can get a really good idea of a plan. Failing that, we do live in the age of the internet.

[Orangecoke]

Personally I think it's baloney that painted minis cause problems or are misleading, but that's just my opinion. Other publishers do a great job of it and IMO they benefit enormously. For example I think Infinity has good rules but their stunning painted minis they use for marketing and packaging are where they get a ton of traction.

Even if not for packaging due to deadlines, back filling a painted faction gallery would be a strong move IMO.

[nogoatsnoglory]

 

but their stunning painted minis they use for marketing and packaging are where they get a ton of traction.

 

 

Looking at their painting miniatures was actually why I didn't go with Infinity when I was looking for a skirmish game.  They just didn't appeal to me.  Malifaux had the theme and to be honest I can see more with the renders than anything.  I can see the colors I want to do and come up with my own color schemes, where the painted miniatures just give me a restricted feeling.

 

Two sides to the coin.

[Orangecoke]

Yeah I definitely expect some people feel differently, but I do think presentation is a huge part of this market as far as breaking into the larger gaming audience.

[pantomime_cat]

Personally, I'm inspired by concept art, and  a  communities interpretation of such....