Domin

It's funny to hear all those complains about "autowinning" masters, especialy with my previous experience of playing Warhammer 40k. I faced "overpowered" Sandeep 3-4 times - and every time I beat him. I faced Nicodem last tourney - and beat him 10-4. Of course I can't say that all my opponents were top-1 tournament players, or that all of their lists were super-optimised. But there's a thing: in Malifaux I can't say that there's a master that can give a low-skill player an auto-victory over a skilled one. The most of any victory lies in the hands and mind of a player, not in models or rules. And that's the balance as it should be.

He still had card draw from killing mindless zombies and an ability to raise them from corpse markers. But i agree that he wasn't as optimised, as was I.

On my last tourney I faced Nicodem with my Lynch and made a 10-4. Maybe it's the only due to non-optimised crew of Nico: no Asura Rotten, no Philip or Centauroi but, Vulture, Mortimer, Emissary and Anna Lovelace. My team included Huggy w/ Malifaux Provides, Emissary w/ Lynch's Conflux, Doppleganger w/ Useless Duplications, Hans w/ Thousand Faces, Beckoner, Bloodwretch and Effigy We played Extracton on Standard deployment, I took Hold Up their Forces and Inescapable Trap I get quite an easy trail, killed Vulture on 1st turn, then out-summoning Nico due to Burn Out upgrade on Lynch and burning corpse markers with Emy's attacks.

Warped reality is very useful for them, 'cause it opens the way to make an alpha-strike: two Illuminated and Beckoner are placed by FtS, then Beckoner lures Dreamer up to 14-16 inches so he can make charge, strike his best with a cricket bat and get Lord Chompy on first turn.

Gonna re-animate this thread with my own thoughts about Terrain Lilith Crew. I personally focus on using hasardous terrain then just forests. Especially with marvellous upgrade from 5th book. Declared Faction: Neverborn Crew Name: They Came 45|50ss Leader: Lilith - Cache:(4) - Beckon Malifaux 1ss - Living Blade 2ss - The Land Consumes 1ss Cherub 3ss Doppleganger 7ss - Useless Duplications 1ss Serena Bowman 7ss - A Thousand Faces 1ss Mysterious Emissary 10ss - Mysterious Conflux 0ss Beckoner 6ss - Warped Reality 1ss Bloodwretch 5ss So, what's the plan? Firstly, we have a pair of Lilith and Beckoner. Placing the "living belle" wia FtS can give Lilith up to 12 inches of of free movement before her first turn activation. So she can get to the middle of the table, drop a hasardous terrain marker, grow some trees to block LoS and start fishing opponent's models. Who will get 3+ 1|2|4 damage flips without actually being attacked. Cherub and Emissary makes the second part of team, The winged boy enchances both Beckoner and Lilith with hasardous terrain auras - while both of them are immune to damage from it. In addition, he allows us to drop some free scheme markers to summn changelings on first turn. The big walking tree drops even more hasardous terrain markers, summon changellings (who can copy Lilith's Living Blade with build-in pluses on both attack and damage flips) and give more pluses on attack flips to our minions (most basicly saving our cards). The last, but not the least, is a card-cycling engine which contains Dopel, BW and Serena. It gives us a 6 cards to draw (discarding 3) in a turn. Besides, Serena can offer us some additional condition-removal and black blood for nearly everyone. And we still have 5 SS to spend, depending of what we need. I'm thinking about Bandersnatch, who can bury to Lilith, and use his attacks with built-in pushing trigger to give her some free Living Blade attacks.

My question is - can Nelle Cochrane use her Revisionist History Ability to cheat hazardous terrain damage flips? Rules of hazardous terrain say:

Attacks generated by Triggers are not considered as generated by Charge, even if the "triggering" Attack was actually generated by Charge. For example, Yokai has an ability: And his attack has an "additional-attack" trigger: But the FAQ says that those additional attacks do not benefit from Frenzied Charge Ergo, Zoraida loves models with additional attack triggers - her Bewitch+Obey combo can make them gold mines.

Run it once against Perdita - and on turn 3 she ended, along with Francisco and Emy - making my opponent to concede. It's mostly terrain-oriented crew. If you have good vantage point and little blocking terrain - you gonna dominate the table.

I personally use another variant of Lucius list, making a sniper-heavy team. So I take Doppleganger and Hans both with thousand faces, Emissary with base conflux, Scribe, mr. Tannen with useless duplications, Bloodwretch and Terracotta Warrior. Dopel, TW and Bloodwretch can make a card-cycling engine, which helps us on first turns to summon changelings (on 5+ masks with Tannen's aura). Who mobs around Hans to use his rifle. Emy gives them free plus on attacks, resummon them when they are dead and places hungry lands for those who tries to reach us. TW gives Lucius upgrade-cycling (which can win the entire game, for example - when Search the Ruins is in play) and offers additional protection for Hans (who is protected as well with +1 Def from Scribe and probably the Mimic's Blessing upgrade from thousand faces). At the end we can offer up to 8 shots per turn on the range of 36 (1 from Hans, 1 from Dopel, 3 from changelings and 3 from Lucius commanding the changelings) with lots of pluses. Or double this number on the range of 18.

That's a wonderful idea! But I see it realised in another way. Firstly, we shouldn't replace the doppleganger - she's simply too cool for her costs. Seconly, there's no need to take changelings for stones since Emy with Tannen can easily summon them. So the final variant of such list is: Declared Faction: Neverborn Crew Name: Open the Box 50ss Leader: Pandora - Cache:(3) Fears Given Form 1ss Rile Them Up 2ss Woe is Me 2ss Widow Weaver 8ss Doppleganger 7ss Mysterious Emissary 10ss Conflux of Sorrow 0ss Serena Bowman 7ss A Thousand Faces 1ss Mr. Tannen 6ss Beckoner 6ss So we have less stones, less protection from projectiles, but a lot more card-cycling. I think the best way of activation is: 1. Tannen, placing scheme, walking and activating aura. 2. Serena, placing scheme and walking. 3. Emy, copying Widow's aura and conjuring 2 changelings (it's the worst thing of a plan - needing two 5+ masks on drawing hand+soulstone draw). 4. Changelings, each making 1 weaver's attack on Serena. So we get 4 cards and damage Serena on 2 points. 5. WW activates, and can either do her two attacks on Serena or one attack and one placing attack to Beckoner - to give her the advance we lost due to dropping Warped Reality. 5. Beckoner activates, luring Dora as much as she can. 6. Doppleganger copy Weaver's attack, with 7+tomes make it 3 times. So it's 6 more cards, and 3 more damage on Serena. I think that on this step we gonna kill Serena and do Thousand Faces thing. 7. Dora activates and bring them hell with her awesome hand up to 20 cards.

Nope, it only needs the successfull damaging the enemy model.

RB says another: Only passing the Horror duel will give you immunity. So, the catbat07 is right, while I consider such a way (converting 1 AP to 1 card) as an unefficient way to get cards.

Yup, starting from turn 2, you can make such a thing.

I would suggest you my own list: 50 SS Neverborn Crew Dreamer + 3 Pool - Growing Up (1) - Sleep Cycles (2) - Pact (1) Mysterious Emissary (10) - Conflux of Nightmare (0) Serena Bowman (7) - A Thousand Faces (1) Doppleganger (7) - Useless Duplications (1) The Illuminated (7) - Warped Reality (1) Beckoner (6) - Warped Reality (1) Bloodwretch (5) The main thing is placing Beckoner and Illuminated by From the Shadows. Then, with first activation (which is granted by Dopel) we do double Lure on Dreamer, moving him up to 14". While doing it, we push poor girl within 2" of both Dreamer and Illuminated and LoS of Dopel. So - shooting attacks against her will have high chance to go to Illuminated. Who is hard enough to tank one or two hits - with possibly healing from Dreamer's aura.  So, on a second activation we have nearly guaranteedcharge of Dreamer, with his Cg7 and 2" engagement.  On the other side, we have Serena Bowman and two guys to knock the cards out of her. Furthermore, if some of our teenager bat strikes miss - we can still get some Waking from killing Serena and summoning a Daydream, for example.

Within 3". I personally try not to use "big guys" in my lists, but Emy is the only exception - he's too much effective.

Zoraida's Bewitch action, now combined with an ability to free Obey, can give you tons of cards.

It takes you to spend 2 AP of Master on card-farming rather then on summon itself. I personally consider this as an overkill. Anyway, since The Rage Builds effect lasts for the rest of an Activation, your last step will only give you 1 card.

Doppleganger - the most usefull model of the whole faction, IMHO - and Bloodwretch. With Huggy they can make an awesome card-farming engine, busting your hand up to 14 cards. 2nd line - Emissary. He can provide additional mobility from conflux and summon changellings to multiply you crew's attacks. P.S. all three, while being awesome with Lynch, are quite usefull with nearly any other masters.

My personal opinion about Zoraida is that she's no need in big beaters - as well as in two wisps - if you don't run the whole-swampfiend crew with Spawn Mother. The must-have models for her are: 1. Emissary. Despite his usefulness with any master, with Zora he's awesome. Just one punch to a doll - and hemmed model can be obeyed by Zora from any point on the table - with positive modifier, negating the most common ways to counter her (Yes, Sue, it's about you). 2. Nurse from Ressurs. Even with raised cost she's preety nice, as a source of nasty conditions and emergency healing for Zora.

Then another question comes in place - does the top ledge is ignored whole, or just on an are where there are 2" from ledge to top model?

Doppleganger uses her 0 AP action "Mimic" to copy the 1 AP action "The Rage Builds" from Bloodwretch, and for tomes trigger do it for free. It requires 7+ tomes, but after this he can do two attacks with her fists (1|1|2 damage changing to 2|2|3) - probably combined with charge moving. Each of these attacks, if damaging, allow you to draw two cards and discard one. The Bloodwretch itself can do only one such attack - after tactical action. Her damage track will change to 3|4|6 - so at the end of all 3 attacks Serena will die, unless she activates in a middle and heal herself. But she will be auto-summoned back, and we will get cards-cycling and free 1 AP action for Dora. This card-farming engine can be used with any master, and Serena can be easily chaged for any other model with easy healing or high armor. But the best use of her I found with Jacob Lynch - since we can always discard Aces to get them back. And Hungering Darkness with Malifaux Provides is quite good in place of Serena.

2 ap for moving dreamer to position. 1 for giving fast - there's no way to give playtime. Or, if you not give him fast, there'll be no flurry - since it isn't engaging anyone. Wing buffet is a 1 ap action that works in a 4" pulse - so it's useless if taken before charge. Charge through - if we are talking about a trigger on Mature's Nephilim Attack - requires high tomes card, which is also a luck affair. If you have it on your hand, you can make another combo - instead of giving Mature the Fast, you can use in-built masks to push him 6 and make an attack. Then use your high tomes to push blocking model out and charge directly to Nico, making 2 attacks out of his activation - and then possibly chain activate another one Mature Nephilim.

There are two main problems of such way: 1. If you lost the deployment flip - your opponent shall see, where you deployed your heavy beaters, and is free to place Nico and other crew the way that shell block your charges. 2. Because you don't use Doppleganger, you are vulnerable to losing the initative flip. This is actual for the second variant of list.

Learn. It's the most usefull way to act in such a situation. Learn and try to make a good standing. And next time - bring something new, that can counter your opponent's usual choice. For example - don't bring Lilith or Pandora against Arcanists. Try to use Titania. Against Guild - try Lucius with sniper gunline. Ten Thunders? Bring Lynch and let them come closer.

Tested yesterday: Declared Faction: Neverborn Crew Name: Open the Box 50ss Leader: Pandora - Cache:(3) Fears Given Form 1ss Rile Them Up 2ss Woe is Me 2ss Doppleganger 7ss Mysterious Emissary 10ss Conflux of Sorrow 0ss Serena Bowman 7ss A Thousand Faces 1ss Bloodwretch 5ss Beckoner 6ss Warped Reality 1ss Insidious Madness 5ss The main thing is a "Pandorapult" engine that consists of: - placing Beckoner wia FtS within 4 of Dora, and use her lure tricks to move her 8" - killing Serena Bowman to make Dora do her Incite wia Rile Them Up - polish it with the regular Incite. With this, we can possibly move Dora up to 24" without spending any of her AP. 2nd part of a crew is my regular card-cycling engine, which gives Dora resourses she needs. At last - Insidious Madness for a scheme-run and little support. After a test game I came to conclusion that IM should be replaced with Mr. Tannen.