Math Mathonwy

It's looking pretty likely that we'll be getting record attendance this year. Really cool! Edit: based on the entries on the Finnish forums, that is - I was being serious.

All Guild models in Wave five barring the Riot Breaker have card draw - which seems a bit excessive, to be honest, but I guess that the developers agreed with you.

When he works it's usually pretty frustrating for the opponent so I'm not sure I've had many amazingly fun games with him no matter who was doing the winning. It's an interesting psychological effect but it seems that people resent it more when their models are unable to accomplish anything than when they straight up die. I really hope that they can somehow make him work (maybe a similar errata as what Lucius got or something) since the concept is very cool and unique (there's very few debuffer Masters in general).

Even though that is the classic move, I would argue that both Wong and, especially, Zipp are also possible directions. Wong is a bit similar in playstyle to Ophelia but Zipp is really different and his box gives you an excellent Schemer and the Iron Skeeters work superbly well with the Kin.

Note that the position in a given tier list bears absolutely no meaning so Dita isn't at the top of T1. She is versatile, mobile, and deadly, and (this is crucial), very difficult to nullify. I consider her still one of the best Masters in the game. Sonnia is T0 on the correct board but if she can't make use of her Flame Walls I have never had too much trouble with her (well, more than others at T2 - I have lost to her and I have won against her). She is squishy and can be nullified by tying her into melee. Compared to Wong, for example, the Gremlin version is way, way tougher and can escape combat easily. Then, Kaeris. I admit that I have minimal experience against her in GG17 - she might very well be T2 material these days. Finally, note that the tier list reflects my experiences and my strengths and weaknesses to a point. It is, like all of these sorts of lists, subjective and shouldn't be taken as gospel by absolutely anyone. That said, I do welcome discussion about it (which is why I posted it in the first place) and am always interested in others' take on lists like these.

I'm guessing that one of the numbers above is wrong? And yeah, very much agreed about Debt to the Guild, it's pretty bonkers.

You can't Autofire Assimilate.

"(0) Assimilate (Ca 8t / TN: 14t / Rst: Wp / Rg: 8): Select a (1) Action printed on target Construct or one of its Upgrades that does not list a model by name. This model immediately takes the selected Action, but may not declare Triggers."

Laz can't Summon since those actions list a model by name.

Alyssa, though still doing these in the Wyrd style, seems to be able to infuse a lot of character into these. Compared to the previous art, I think that these have quite a bit more soul, in a sense. I really like this new direction! Difficult to say how well this will work as a mini, though. Interesting to see, for sure!

Well, to be fair Belles were weakened by errata and Austringers were also changed so I guess that they weren't just perceived as being broken but actually were above the curve. Interestingly it looked to me that Wave 5 had lower stats again present in larger quantities. Or at least fives - in Waves three and four it seemed that six was just crazy common. Not all that many sevens, though, I don't think. Yeah, I think that those three Emissaries are the only ones from that wave which produced real waves. There's some solid choices there as well but they are mostly marginally better for some specific task than stuff from the previous waves so a pretty incremental change. I mean, Wind Gamins are pretty brilliant but Arcanists did have solid Scheme runners already so they mostly widen the spectrum rather than breaking new ground like much of the Wave 4 stuff did.

Of course it is. And my win/loss record against certain players is certainly rather one-sided. I took exception against the claim that "the differences in "power" between even the masters are so minuscule, it doesn't really matter in a local group, where player skill will just be more important than any balance issue" where I agree that skill is more important but the power differences still matter. I have beaten your Colette with (pre-cuddle) Ophelia but I very much doubt I would've done so had I used Brewmaster with a Tri-Chi based crew.

I kinda agree with this but I think that you're oversimplifying a bit. I mean, there's no one in my meta who I haven't lost to and who I haven't won if I have played more than four games against them. So even though skill does play a huge part it doesn't trump all. And if both players are at least somewhat on the same level skill-wise I do think that Brewmaster will lose quite a bit more often to Perdita or Kirai than the other way around. There are no hopeless match-ups, true, but there are still tier differences and they are more pronounced than in Infinity. I also think that adding more models to Malifaux isn't making it better but rather the opposite. I understand why they are being added and Malifaux won't be turning unplayable any time soon but I do think that they aren't adding to the game anymore. As for power creep - well, the first book contained the most broken and the most useless stuff, in general. There was Francois and Francisco but also Oiran and Samurai (before the fixing Upgrades). So I'm not convinced that there is much in the way of power creep happening in Malifaux. In fact, I would argue that Wave 3 was the other way around with model ranging from "nice" to "not very good". A couple of the Emissaries are really powerful but otherwise there wasn't all that much there that you should be adding to your models if you're looking for THE ULTIMATE POWER.

Quite possibly the easiest model ever to proxy - just paint a random mini completely brown/grey

Note that this thread is pretty old in that a lot had happened and not just new models but new errata as well. I'm thinking that my new tier list would be: Tier 1: Perdita, Somer, Kirai, Ramos, Colette, Dreamer, Collodi, Jack Daw, Leveticus, Wong, Zipp, Nellie, Sandeep, Reva, Lilith, Nicodem, Marcus, McCabe Tier 2: Sonnia, Resser McMourning, Tara, Molly, Seamus, Rasputina, Mei Feng, Zoraida, Lynch, Pandora, Vikkies, Von Schill, Misaki, Hamelin, Ulix, Mah Tuckett, Shenlong, Parker, Asami, Titania Tier 3: Guild McMourning, Lady Justice, Hoffman, Yan Lo, Ironsides, Lucius, Kaeris, Ophelia Tier 4: Brewmaster Compared to my previous list, the distance between the tiers has shortened, I think. Especially between tiers 2-4.

Adding Creative Taxidermy would allow you to build very competitive lists out of Zipp's box (and Mech Pork and Sparks(?)). Taxidermists are fine hitters and very nice ferrying targets for the Iron Skeeters. And Stuffed Piglets are silly powerful for their cost.

Burt Jebsen doesn't come in the three starter boxes I was trying to work with

Here's a nasty list made from your three starters: Zipp (Gift of Gab, Rambling Diatribe) Earl Francois Lacroix Iron Skeeter (Poorly Handled Explosives) Iron Skeeter (Hovering Airship) Raphael Lacroix (Dirty Cheater) Pere Ravage 4 Bayou Gremlins Earl can give Tomes for Skeeters who ferry Francois and Raphael giving them Fast as well as to Pere who makes a big boom (also ferried). Poorly Handled Explosives makes the boom extra big. Bayou Gremlins do Schemes and Zipp disrupts everything. You won't make any friends with the list, though...

You can still do the rat engine with Hamelin and he has Obey which is sorta close to giving out Fast. Rat Engine was truly problematic for Viks and Levi and such super killy Masters. And yeah, I don't want Perdita to get Nellie's passing mechanic I mean, this is a bit like playing the devil's advocate in that I, too, dislike Nellie's pass mechanic quite fiercely. But I can see the reasoning behind it.

OTOH without the outactivation thingy her claim to fame is basically giving out Fast which isn't all that for a Master. So if she didn't have it, she'd need something else.

If this model kills a friendly Gremlin, Summon a Survivor into base to base contact with it before removing?

Since we're talking Raptors - here's a fun trick with Mei Feng. Seismic Claws Pushes away enemies and then lets you attack another enemy nearby. Drop a Raptor behind the enemies in such a way that they don't have room to be Pushed away and then Mei can hit them in perpetuity as long as she keeps landing the hits. Combine with a Charge from the Mech Pork's Aura and you will keep getting those positives to Attack.

It does not seem to be up to date. I don't see, e.g., Scorpius or Rougarou there.

I would argue that if the terrain is such that you should go Seamus over Reva, then you actually should be taking Kirai

The new Masters are mostly very complicated and complex aside from maybe Reva who is simply brutally powerful. So I rather agree with @Adran(which isn't rare) that them being (relatively) new and them being complex makes it so that it's hard to accurately gauge their power level still. I do dislike how Parker and Titania seem to be complex mainly for complexity's sake and how Sandeep is so insanely versatile that it makes planning and tactics nearly impossible (there's just too much that a Sandeep crew can do to consider the options well, IMO). And Zipp is also a bit too good invalidating Mah, basically, and Nellie's passing mechanism is really annoying (outactivation shenanigans in Malifaux are it's worst part, IMO, and I say that as someone who uses Stuffed Piglets). I think I've said this before but I find the Wave 4 Masters resembling the first edition TT Masters who were all crazy complex. They were distilled better for second edition so maybe the Wave 4 Masters will be more elegant in third edition...