The off-topic closed?

[Shadowfane]

At this point I''m just trying to work out what they're actually gaining from this.

Congratulations, you're.... forcing people to not be on your forums if they want to talk off-topic stuff?

You're pushing some of the most vocal and helpful people on the forums off here, thus leading to a strictly worse forum?

You're actually pushing some people away from the hobby? (At least one person has said htat if the off-topic isn't on here, they'll be drifting away from Malifaux due to lack of people to play)

 

Yay?

[MasterDisaster]

At this point I''m just trying to work out what they're actually gaining from this.

Congratulations, you're.... forcing people to not be on your forums if they want to talk off-topic stuff?

You're pushing some of the most vocal and helpful people on the forums off here, thus leading to a strictly worse forum?

You're actually pushing some people away from the hobby? (At least one person has said htat if the off-topic isn't on here, they'll be drifting away from Malifaux due to lack of people to play)

 

Yay?

Basically this! Nicely put Shadowfane. 

[zFiend]

That was very well said Shadowfane. One press of a like button is not enough. 

[Phinn]

I would like to express my support to the OTT orphans.

The worst part is that I don't even know why the Off-Topic Playground was closed. Maybe I would agree with the decision, maybe I wouldn't. The problem here is that I can't imagine I would, because I can't think of a good reason for such action.

[Absolution Black]

As disappointing as no response to our questions has been, I guess the intention is becoming clear.  Its baffling but I am not going to lose the social aspect created through that thread.  We will move on somewhere.  Whether we will remain on here (in any capacity) remains to be seen I guess.

 

[MasterDisaster]

Many of us built great friendships in the OTT and closing it down won't stop that. We will find other means to communicate and stay in touch with each other and should any wish to join us we will be happy to help out. It's just frustrating that we can't do it here where we can also discuss other topics on other threads with fellow Malifaux players. The lack of contact from Wyrd on this matter is incredibly disheartening and has shaken my faith in the company. Many of us affected by this are Henchmen and we actively spend our free time to promote your products and whilst we are rewarded for the effort we put in the least you guys could do is give us a reasonable explanation. Sorry Wyrd but I felt it had to be said. Mod me, ban me, delete this post. I don't really care anymore. All we want is answers, it's not a massive ask. 

[Absolution Black]

Speaking as myself, and in no way in my capacity as a mod;

You were given an explanation when the thread was closed. What you're now seeking is a further explanation of that explanation.  I can't help but suspect that if they give that to you you'll want an explanation of the explanation of the explanation... and so on.

I suspect you'd be happier in the long run accepting that this forum isn't the place to discuss 'watching Katy Perry videos with the sound off' and move to having that sort of conversation elsewhere, twitter (for example) is great for that.

The argument that's been made several times; the only/main reason you come to this war-gaming forum is to discuss topics which don't relate to war-gaming isn't the strongest of positions to take IMO.  It's like saying 'the only reason I come into this restaurant is to use the bathroom...'

Again all very much IMHO.

 

Yes we were given an explanation, that the thread had run its course.

We have also been given the 'insinuation' that starting another such thread would be unwanted. Therefore apart from 'running its course' there must be another reason for Wyrd not wanting an OTT in general..All we want is that reason.

Twitter is not available to everyone all of the time so having the kind of conversations we used to have isn't always viable that way..It could be done but not as conveniently.

We have said the main reason we came to the forum is to meet up in the OTT.  But we also post on other threads (some very actively)..and we actually talk quite a lot of Malifaux in the OTT too..(crazy I know!).

Plus.  It isn't Katy Perry videos all the time, as those who know me would know my preference...and being a weirdo I actually like the sound on!

 

Edited September 28, 2015 by Absolution Black

[MasterDisaster]

I see where you're coming from Mythic, I really do. However a lot of people who have expressed their view here feel the "explanation" given is just a bit of a wash out and not really an explanation at all, it's more of a "cause we said so and that's that" which in my opinion is pretty poor customer service. We are all reasonable people and are willing to accept what has happened but we can't because we haven't got a clue why it's happened other than some half assed justification for taking away a much beloved part of this forum. True it's a wargaming forum and true it's not necessary to have an OTT here but given the reactions to it's closure surely something needs to be done or said? As for using a restaurant purely for it's bathroom evidently you've never been on a long journey and had to pop into a local pub just to use the toilet. Well, you guys know how I feel on this topic. I wont be here again to express my feelings on the matter, I've made them pretty clear. 

[mythicFOX]

Just for the record I hit the wrong button and deleted my last post, and can't figure out how to bring it back.

Absolution's quoted it above anyway so carry on. 

[Da Git]

Can I just say that if the main posters on the OTT left the Wyrd Forums (I'm looking at you zFiend, Diriel, Crush & others), then I'd be a very sad panda.  A lot of those posters provide a really strong backbone to this community and are super helpful in threads... Really, we want to keep those people here.
 

I never actually posted in the OTT, but occasionally had a quick look.  I've Always had the utmost respect for Wyrd as a company and this whole debacle has actually shaken my faith in them a bit.  Especially considering the OTT was not harming anyone.  If you really wanted, you could just make it so that it didn't pop up in the recent posts section.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Da O&F Git

[Shadowfane]

Can I just say that if the main posters on the OTT left the Wyrd Forums (I'm looking at you zFiend, Diriel, Crush & others), then I'd be a very sad panda. 
 

I never actually posted in the OTT, but occasionally had a quick look.  I've Always had the utmost respect for Wyrd as a company and this whole debacle has actually shaken my faith in them a bit.  Especially considering the OTT was not harming anyone.  If you really wanted, you could just make it so that it didn't pop up in the recent posts section.

Just thought I'd emphasize this point.  The common reaction here hasn't been "Where will we talk about Katy Perry (or whoever) now?" It's been "This has made us think less of Wyrd as a company" - for a company who clearly want to involve and talk to it's fanbase, can you REALLY not see how this could be a problem?

 

And for the record... "It's run it's course" is specifically NOT an explanation - it's very much the deliberate absence of one.  It's what I'd expect a politician to say, and that, more than anything else, is whats disappointing me about this.

 

edit: It has just occurred to me that I've posted more in this thread than I ever did in the actual off-topic thread itself.....

Edited September 28, 2015 by Shadowfane
reasons

[Dirial]

Can I just say that if the main posters on the OTT left the Wyrd Forums (I'm looking at you zFiend, Diriel, Crush & others), then I'd be a very sad panda. 
 

I never actually posted in the OTT, but occasionally had a quick look.  I've Always had the utmost respect for Wyrd as a company and this whole debacle has actually shaken my faith in them a bit.  Especially considering the OTT was not harming anyone.  If you really wanted, you could just make it so that it didn't pop up in the recent posts section.

Just thought I'd emphasize this point.  The common reaction here hasn't been "Where will we talk about Katy Perry (or whoever) now?" It's been "This has made us think less of Wyrd as a company" - for a company who clearly want to involve and talk to it's fanbase, can you REALLY not see how this could be a problem?

 

And for the record... "It's run it's course" is specifically NOT an explanation - it's very much the deliberate absence of one.  It's what I'd expect a politician to say, and that, more than anything else, is whats disappointing me about this.

That's exactly my point. I'm a very reasonable person. I never (to my knowledge) came into conflict with mods and always adhered to their guidelines. Once Wyrd made clear they wouldn't tolerate thread derailment for friendly banter, I immediately apologized and moved it to the OTT. If the contents of the OTT were deemed offensive, I would have changed my behaviour in there immediately as well. All it would have taken was such a missive. There was none. No guideline. From my perspective, the conversation with Wyrd and the Mods went like this:

"We don't want anyone to talk about anything but our games." - "Oh, that's sad. Why do you think so?" - "Please continue to ask that question, you are welcome to it. We won't tell you, though."

I see where you're coming from, MythicFox, and of course I cannot guarantee that I would have been okay with any further explanation. I'm still convinced that a respectful and constructive relation with anyone (in this case the forum users) looks different than what Wyrd and the Mods displayed in this case. Please take this as respectful and constructive critique, in the spirit of what I think how adult, respectful people should communicate.

[Math Mathonwy]

"The thread is closed because it has run its course" isn't an explanation of any sort. It's a non-explanation. It's like explaining why Malifaux is a good game by saying that it is.

The thread had been there for years. And suddenly, completely out of the blue, "it has run its course". I'm honestly flabbergasted that someone could think that that is an explanation and wonder why people are still confused.

And the analogy about the restaurant toilet is just very dishonest. I have seen all the usual suspects posting a lot outside of the OTT thread. Heck, if someone counted the threads of M2e era where Dirial and/or ZFiend has posted and compared that number to the threads where neither has posted, I wouldn't be surprised if there were more of the former than the latter.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Math Mathonwy

[mythicFOX]

Again speaking personally, not as a mod.

@ Math -

To clarify;  Several people had expressed that without the OTT thread there was little to no reason for them to come to the forum. I was only pointing out that (if it's true) it's not a good argument for them to make, as they are essentially undermining the significance of their contribution to the forum. 

Also labelling comments as "very dishonest" because they say something you disagreed with is actually a good reason not to tell you things. If you're going to accuse people who don't say what you want to hear of being dishonest then what's the point in answering your questions? Personally I'd rather take flack for being silent than be called a liar.

I'm done in here. I'll be back only if I'm needed in an official capacity.

[zFiend]

I'm done in here. I'll be back only if I'm needed in an official capacity.

Well that's one of the examples there of the unnecessary "mod hat" post. Now I am genuinely cautious to even post this remark but for the sake of argument about the very weird "I have a mod hat and power to do what I wish" post. What happened here now that deemed that threat? I am seriously asking. 

[Math Mathonwy]

Also labelling comments as "very dishonest" because they say something you disagreed with is actually a good reason not to tell you things. If you're going to accuse people who don't say what you want to hear of being dishonest then what's the point in answering your questions? Personally I'd rather take flack for being silent than be called a liar.

My sincere apologies - I misunderstood what you meant. In my defense, I don't think that your analogy was very clear but there really was no reason not to give you the benefit of the doubt so I honestly apologize. That was uncalled for.

But I also think that pre-emptively saying that people hoping for an explanation wouldn't accept an explanation were they given one kinda set things off on the wrong foot. I think that that was uncalled for as well. And I don't mean this to excuse my behaviour, mind.

[Dirial]

You're a good guy, Math. When was the last time I told you? Warrants repetition.

[jonahmaul]

Also labelling comments as "very dishonest" because they say something you disagreed with is actually a good reason not to tell you things. If you're going to accuse people who don't say what you want to hear of being dishonest then what's the point in answering your questions?

Perhaps the very dishonest comment was a bit much but honestly as a defence this is poor.  Nobody from Wyrd is saying things we don't want to hear, they're not saying anything at all other than 'it's closed because it is'.  Why did somebody decide that the OTP have run it's course all of a sudden?  Was there something in particular that sparked off this change of perspective?  What was the thought process behind the decision by the Wyrd team to shut down the OTP and not provide a new one?  Given the size of it it's understandable that it might have got bloated and taken up a lot of space but if that's the case why not just say we're going to delete this one permanently and start a new one, please stop posting videos as they take up too much room or something similar that addressed directly whatever the perceived problem was?

[NoHero]

From Aaron's post it seemed to me like they want more people to use the chat function. When I am logged on I rarely see people use it, usually 1or 2. I never used the OTT, but I have browsed it on occasion and I could see some sensitive people reporting/flagging some of the posts on there. Speaking for myself here, I imagine a company doesn't want any of its users/customers to be upset about what is on the company's forums.

[Math Mathonwy]

From Aaron's post it seemed to me like they want more people to use the chat function. When I am logged on I rarely see people use it, usually 1or 2. I never used the OTT, but I have browsed it on occasion and I could see some sensitive people reporting/flagging some of the posts on there. Speaking for myself here, I imagine a company doesn't want any of its users/customers to be upset about what is on the company's forums.

If one or both of those are the reason, I really, really wish that they would say so! It's bizarre that you have to try and guess.

If they want more people onto the chat, this seems like a really bad way to do it. The chat has a very different function. If they wanted more people there, they should hold Q&A sessions, reveal stuff there and such.

If they wanted to tone down the OTT (and it did get a bit out of hand sometimes and reading it for modding purposes must have been a task) but these are reasonable adult people we're talking about. It would be respectful to tell them to tone it down. If it didn't work, then closing down the thread wouldn't seem petty and arbitrary as it now kinda seems but rather justified. And it wouldn't certainly leave such a sour taste in the mouths of people who didn't even participate in the thread.

[zFiend]

If they wanted to tone down the OTT (and it did get a bit out of hand sometimes and reading it for modding purposes must have been a task) but these are reasonable adult people we're talking about. It would be respectful to tell them to tone it down.

I agree with you once again wholeheartedly. 

Also I do think that there are good mods on these forums, I didn't mean to generalize on all mods, but as I wrote my critique I forgot that. For example I have nothing to critique about Kadeton and Hateful Darkblack whom I think are doing a tremendous job and never have I seen those two going in mod hats / closing down topics, issuing threats that didn't warrant it. So as where critique is in my opinion needed so is positive feedback. Which I completely forgot to do here. So.. Kadeton and Hateful Darkblack, if you are reading this, you guys are awesome.

[Adran]

I'm done in here. I'll be back only if I'm needed in an official capacity.

Well that's one of the examples there of the unnecessary "mod hat" post. Now I am genuinely cautious to even post this remark but for the sake of argument about the very weird "I have a mod hat and power to do what I wish" post. What happened here now that deemed that threat? I am seriously asking. 

I really don't see this as a threat statement. It was a "I am choosing to not write anything else in this thread as a Forum user, because I think I've said all I can say and there isn't anything else I have to add."

He started his very first post in the thread saying that all he was saying was as him, not as a mod. He finished it off saying anything else he says he is as a Mod. 

I can see how you have taken it, but I honestly think that it was not intended in that way at all. 

[zFiend]

You do have a very solid point Adran and I don't deny that I might have misunderstood that. Thank you for your input, it is highly valued. 

[Dirial]

I think, MythicFox tried to offer some sort of middleground here, between our critique that we weren't treated fairly and openly, and Wyrd's position not to address that critique. If that was the intent, I haven't paid my respect to MythicFox appropriately. The Mods are in a tough position there, and trying to be a calmer voice is always awkward.

I respect what you tried to do, even if I don't agree with all your points.

[Math Mathonwy]

I think, MythicFox tried to offer some sort of middleground here, between our critique that we weren't treated fairly and openly, and Wyrd's position not to address that critique. If that was the intent, I haven't paid my respect to MythicFox appropriately. The Mods are in a tough position there, and trying to be a calmer voice is always awkward.

I respect what you tried to do, even if I don't agree with all your points.

I agree. And at least addressing us is more than the others have done so that's certainly appreciated!

I must say that I'm dumbstruck by the whole silent treatment here. It's just weird. And not in that good wyrd way.