Hagisman Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Do you ever find that there is a model you'll never use? Maybe you just can't figure out how to use the rules with your crew or it doesn't fill a role. Or it could have a model you just don't like... Or help you no model at all. Right now I'm not finding a reason to include Guild Guardsmen. But that'll probably change when the Wave 2 Lucius crew is out. I haven't been finding them to useful aside from if I know my opponent will be taking a Scheme Marker Scheme. Otherwise they are taking hits and a liability in Reckoning and If Make them Suffer is in play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastershake Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Barbaros- I'm not sure this guy was ever a 10ss model even with the old Nexus of Power. At this point he'd be an option at 8, maybe 9 if I really needed him, but at 10ss he's staying in the case for the foreseeable future. Waldgeist- Loss of Dense attribute on their trees moved them firmly from "ooh nice", to "meh". They're annoying to remove, but they don't do much while being annoying to remove. Kade- He has such good Synergy but gah is this guy made of glass. Df 7 only goes so far and when that stops working he folds really fast. Despite some good performances, he's migrated out of lists for just being really frail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 I was kinda hoping the Large Arachnid to shape up to get a place in my Ramos crew to come but I think that I won't even get the model as I just can't see using it, it's not a bad model by stats, it's a not bad model for it's cost, it's just I can't see why as I always want to field Langston (I love the model) and from wave 2 definetly the Coryphee's, then there's Joss. I have been wondering about Chiaki and Yin, as they did nothing for me in the games I played, but will have to try them out more. Scales of Justice gets always left out as I can't find a reason to field it. Well, there's some, there are more but I can't think of them at this second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makrar Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) I mostly play Guild and there are very few models that i dont use from Wave 1. Scales of Justice This guy just doesnt perform for me - at most i draw a few cards across a game. Needless to say i leave this model at home. Executioner I keep trying this guy and he keeps dying before he actually accomplishes something. 9SS is a lot. Maybe its just bad luck? Who knows but id rather spend 11SS and take a Peacekeeper instead, its superior in every single way. The Lone Marshall 8SS for a upgraded death marshall without Pinebox. Hes not bad as such but i find him boring and his gun is fairly subpar. i think when you compare him to other choices in the same SS range he comes up well short. Edited January 29, 2014 by Makrar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Scales of Justice This guy just doesnt perform for me - at most i draw a few cards across a game. Needless to say i leave this model at home. Executioner I keep trying this guy and he keeps dying before he actually accomplishes something. 9SS is a lot. Maybe its just bad luck? Who knows but id rather spend 11SS and take a Peacekeeper instead, its superior in every single way. The Scales I really like. It doesn't have the same utility as other totems (I LOVE the Enslaved Neph!), but drawing cards during the turn is excellent! Also, the +WP aura is rather good with Death Marshals. The Executioner is tricky, for sure. But that "No triggers" clause is so funny against December crews and TT. Pesky Rail Workers getting cut down like wheat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makrar Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) The Scales I really like. It doesn't have the same utility as other totems (I LOVE the Enslaved Neph!), but drawing cards during the turn is excellent! Also, the +WP aura is rather good with Death Marshals. The Executioner is tricky, for sure. But that "No triggers" clause is so funny against December crews and TT. Pesky Rail Workers getting cut down like wheat... I find pine box to be a situational ability. its pretty useless most of the time but on occassion it will win you the game and as such i find it hard to justify spending 3SS in a totem that has to pretty much spend most of its ap to keep up with my crew, Now of course the WP is not only good for pinebox but in general i feel Guild have good WP and so i find made an example to be a bit overkill. Its more a playstyle thing for me rather then those models are actually worthless. if you looked hard enough you could find situations for any model to be worth taking but i just feel for those 3 its to much of a corner case to justify hiring. YMMV and all that Edited January 29, 2014 by Makrar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaarup Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Purifying Flame...Can´t seem to get any good use out of it. Would rather pay a few more soulstones and get a Witchling Stalker. The only reason I am still considering it, is because of the Dampening ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehren37 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Also seconding Barbaros and Kade. Barbaros lacks the survivability you'd want for his role. When they made Nexus total garbage it pretty much gutted any chance of this guy seeing much table time. Kade doesnt offer anything special in a faction of fast melee killers. Even if illuminated weren't an option, I don't see fielding him. The CA of 5 on his lure is low (apparently nothing is allowed to approach the appeal of a dead hooker). They could have made him more useful as a tag team with Teddy, but making it a 2 action kind of nixes that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaarup Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Also seconding Barbaros and Kade. Barbaros lacks the survivability you'd want for his role. When they made Nexus total garbage it pretty much gutted any chance of this guy seeing much table time. Kade doesnt offer anything special in a faction of fast melee killers. Even if illuminated weren't an option, I don't see fielding him. The CA of 5 on his lure is low (apparently nothing is allowed to approach the appeal of a dead hooker). They could have made him more useful as a tag team with Teddy, but making it a 2 action kind of nixes that. Actually thought about using him with Collodi and Teddy...kind of a theme with lots of dolls and small "kids", but not sure how it will work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumb Luck Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Piglets (difficult to use and not rewarding enough) and Pigapult (the amount of resources you need to put into it is not worth it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rancor709 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Wow can't believe the barbaros hate he's been doing fine in my games. Kade i completely agree with he's just 2 fragile and he only see's play when I utilize teddy and even then I'm getting more out of teddy and a beckoner, or teddy and an illuminated than the combo kid and bear. I've not had much luck or use for Santaigo Ortega. Waldergiest are great if your opponent has brought no armor cracking, the sever cover is occasionally a neat bonus but if your bringing them its for the staying power. For the most part I don't bother with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastershake Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Wow can't believe the barbaros hate he's been doing fine in my games. A 10ss model with Ml 6 and weak damage 2 with only two attacks? Other than being a little annoying to kill he doesn't do anything that can't be done cheaper and better elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 With Nimble and Armor 2. Barbaros is amazing. I personally think that this whole understanding of what "is" a definitive cost model is flawed. An expensive model does not have to do everything well to be a good buy. Sybelle with her upgrades is 10SS and in her can she is exactly what you just complained about. She is Ml 6 with min 2 dmg and only 2 attacks, and yet I think you'd be hard pressed to find many peiople that think that Sybelle isn't a good model for that cost. There are other aspects to a model's cost other then just direct killing power. Barbaros can move three times. he has great abilities to control the movement of other models. He is also VERY resilient with a high defense, a high WP, and armor +2. I hate playing against barbarous because he is such an absolute pain to deal with. True he isn't a murder machine, but he is difficult to hit, Difficult to influence, and his ability to force me to burn cards to avoid targeting him, and his Armor +2 and ability to throw my models around like ten pins makes him one of the models I hate seeing across the table. If you feel he is never include you are using him wrong. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastershake Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) With Nimble and Armor 2. Barbaros is amazing. If he had Armor +2 he would be pretty cool, but he emphatically does not. Models get much better when they're played with the wrong abilities. Regardless, being irritating is worth 8ss, not 10ss Edited January 29, 2014 by Mastershake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myth Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) I've seen Barbaros used well by a clever opponent, but I just can't bring myself to ever spend that many points on someone with such a weak attack. Young Nephilim have also been staying home quite a bit these days, given how little support there is for Nephilim growth lists. And that seems unlikely to change with Wave 2, given the only growth support in there is for Tots, who already are a decent option due to their utility. (Though, interestingly, the Young Nephilim might make interesting friends for Collodi.) Still, with Walgeists and Illuminated in the picture, the extra speed that they bring with them doesn't make up for how incredibly quickly they die compared to other options. (Especially cause the speed advantage is pretty slight, and usually still out-ranged by enemy attacks.) Desperate Mercs have seen much less use for me than they did before. Losing their 'cheap merc' trait, combined with the doubling in price, made them kinda too expensive for anyone outside of Outcasts. ---------- Post added at 01:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:14 PM ---------- With Nimble and Armor 2. Barbaros is amazing. I personally think that this whole understanding of what "is" a definitive cost model is flawed. An expensive model does not have to do everything well to be a good buy. Sybelle with her upgrades is 10SS and in her can she is exactly what you just complained about. She is Ml 6 with min 2 dmg and only 2 attacks, and yet I think you'd be hard pressed to find many peiople that think that Sybelle isn't a good model for that cost. Sybelle is good because she brings that attack to the table for 8 SS. If you want to spend upgrades, presumably the points being spent on them get you some sort of bonus beyond the base model itself. For myself, I'd regularly pay the extra 1 SS for her triggers - at which point her attack, while the damage isn't huge, does bring with it the potential for free bonus actions as well as instant death for her targets. Barbaros is unique for being a durable model in a relatively fragile crew. But for his cost, he really struggles to compare to the Mature Nephilim. He does have higher defenses and thus is easier to keep alive, and he has his (0) to distract the enemy (or his upgrade (0) to knock them about). But for just 1 SS more, the Mature brings probably 2-3 times the killing power, similar durability, similar ability to disrupt enemy lines, and potentially superior movement. (As Barbaros's Nimble is hampered by his low Wk speed and lack of ability to ignore terrain.) I mean, I don't think he is worthless. I have seen him played well. But I can't imagine ever taking myself, given other choices I can take in that price range. Edited January 29, 2014 by Myth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastershake Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 I mean, I don't think he is worthless. I have seen him played well. But I can't imagine ever taking myself, given other choices I can take in that price range. about where I'm at, he's in the wrong cost category for me to give him serious consideration anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drool_bucket Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 I love threads like this because they show off M2e inherent balance, because it's about play style and not soul stone cost when selecting 95% plus of the available models. As almost an exclusive Outcast player I can't name a single model in the Faction that I would never consider. The closest is the Nothing Beast, but only because I don't feel like a 10ss model should need babysitting (re: cards in hand) but if I was playing a themed Tara list, he'd be the first hire, because dropping cards is what the list would "want" to do.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Orian, that model is crap. Even with merc tax performer is 100% better imho. Blows my mind that orian and belles got put out in the same book and same cost range. Undead hookers are way more atractive then then living ones who knew. I would kill for these to get an update ya i know good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalcyonSeraph Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Wow can't believe the barbaros hate he's been doing fine in my games. Kade i completely agree with he's just 2 fragile and he only see's play when I utilize teddy and even then I'm getting more out of teddy and a beckoner, or teddy and an illuminated than the combo kid and bear. I've not had much luck or use for Santaigo Ortega. Waldergiest are great if your opponent has brought no armor cracking, the sever cover is occasionally a neat bonus but if your bringing them its for the staying power. For the most part I don't bother with them. Agreed on waldgeist. When they changed their forests from dense to severe they went from always take to almost-never take for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehren37 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Oiran do have Pleasing, which I think might come in handy with Jack Daw's crew, given their terrible willpower. But yeah, the loss of the suit on Lure is pretty bush league. Also, as has been pointed out, Barbaros is just Armor 1. And nimble only goes so far given his crappy speed. His wings are apparently just for show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalcyonSeraph Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Also, as has been pointed out, Barbaros is just Armor 1. And nimble only goes so far given his crappy speed. His wings are apparently just for show. I think his fluff actually addresses this, and says that the same spell preventing him from growing to Mature also makes his wings not work or somesuch. I may actually be conflating his fluff with Skarbrand the Exiled One from 40k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiralngCadavr Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Nope, that's basically correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Oiran do have Pleasing, which I think might come in handy with Jack Daw's crew, given their terrible willpower. But yeah, the loss of the suit on Lure is pretty bush league. Also, as has been pointed out, Barbaros is just Armor 1. And nimble only goes so far given his crappy speed. His wings are apparently just for show. LOl im glad they look good for some one it sure aint a 10t Sucks bad because I LOVE the models. Can we just print orion picture on performers cards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorbad Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 I'll take Oirans together with Colette depending on what I need. Their Lure is much longer range, they give out +1 wp(can be really important), they can't be charged (another huge but underestimated ability), and they got some decent triggers on their melee attacks. They don't make it into every crew but they show up especially when I think I need the extra WP. Similarly I'm surprised no one else like Kade, he have done well for me. Granted, I'll probably only bring him if I got Teddy as well, but the pair have done quite well for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelious1424 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 For me its Bette. I just don't see a place for her in my lists, as she seems too card intensive to actually be worth while. I may be wrong, but I just don't see my self getting much use out of her, especially for her cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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