Cards in pdf format...Do you want it?

[zFiend]

Then again. If wyrd is doing this whole card thing for the players, for no profit, why would pirating a zero profit product be considered as pirating?

---------- Post added at 01:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:17 PM ----------

Say $5 - $10 for the app itself, then maybe $3 - $5 for each Arsenal Deck. (giving you access to those cards and any updates to those cards forever) Or similar to PP make the app free and each deck $10 - $15.

For this, no. It wouldn't solve the problem in no way for Marcus and Levi players. It would make it more expensive.

[hackdZ]

Then again. If wyrd is doing this whole card thing for the players, for no profit, why would pirating a zero profit product be considered as pirating?

---------- Post added at 01:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:17 PM ----------

For this, no. It wouldn't solve the problem in no way for Marcus and Levi players. It would make it more expensive.

The prices would have to be fiddled with to get something that everybody would be happy to pay.

The general idea was for an app that contained the cards, rules and some other features to make up for the cost of development and launching it.

I think we can be safe in saying that if it were simply an additional copy of the rules/cards in pdf format, alot of people won't buy it. (Why do they need 3 copies of each card. Book. Cards. Pdf) Of course some people will, but making an app that has some additional features beyond a simple card library means Wyrd can make some money from it.

Catch my drift?

[Iron Heel]

This poll is on pdfs and not apps as high-quality app development is a totally different undertaking altogether. I am guessing that pdfs could be put together and posted in their shop in maanner of hours or days if they want to charge; perhaps even less than an hour if they want to put them up for free.

Doing a. 1-stop app is a different story. I'd buy the app if it comes into being, but for now I'd dig the pdf.

[zFiend]

This poll is on pdfs and not apps as high-quality app development is a totally different undertaking altogether. I am guessing that pdfs could be put together and posted in their shop in maanner of hours or days if they want to charge; perhaps even less than an hour if they want to put them up for free.

Doing a. 1-stop app is a different story. I'd buy the app if it comes into being, but for now I'd dig the pdf.

[Dracomax]

First, to the point of the poll-

I would buy a pdf of the cards, and fully expect that Wyrd will eventually do this if they can figure out a way to do it that doesn't encourage people not to buy their products. While I would love to get it for free, I have neither the expectation that wyrd will do this, nor the inclination to ask them for it. Thay are a buisness, and as long as I enjoy their models/game, I am happy to support them,

That being said, I fully expect that if you really look, all of the wave one cards are, or will be available very soon in pirated form. I think Wyrd would be better off offering something official and monetizable soon, than just waiting for the pirates to do it in a manner they get nothing from. But that is my opinion, as someone whose money is not tied into it. easy for me to say as an armchair consumer.

Now, onto app issues. I would buy an App with faction packs if it came bundled with a connected version of the crew creator, a scheme/strategy tracker, and a condition/wd tracker/summon adder/way to tell if it is activated.

Ideally, you could pick a crew with the crew creator, and it would pull up the cards chosen, and allow you to track them throughout the game without ever having to write anything down or track a condition externally. That would be worth 10 dollars to me, even if it only came with the models/upgrades available in one of the wave one/wave two arsenal packs, with $2-5 per additional; arsenal upgrade.

[PierceSternum]

I'd dig Print-Rules and all electronic cards.

So cards could be regularly tweaked.

Focus on selling models and not the distribution nightmares of updating model stats. (Or being like before and seldom/never updating model stats)

If cards could be instantly updated via electronic form, we would not have to have all sorts of crazy rulings to redefine words and discuss capitalization so as to pretend like the print versions of cards are still somehow rooted in reality.

Print Rule books are hopefully more stable and less prone to change.

Think of free PDF cards like the "shareware" version of the game. It might get more people to try them out and become hooked and the moment they want to participate with the rest of the community, they need Wyrd models to go along with their electronic cards. (But they could try it out on their own with proxies)

If we believe this game is great and that people trying it will make them want to play it, then exposure to the game is important. Do we care if there are 10,000 people that only use proxies and Wyrd never gets money from them if it means that another 100,000 people were exposed to the game that might not have been otherwise?

So many other industries seem to have figured out that free tastes lead to more sales. Why can't we?

[zFiend]

If an app should come in question at some point, take Dracomax on board in doing it, awesome ideas, I'd pay for that app!

[Iron Heel]

I'd dig Print-Rules and all electronic cards.

So cards could be regularly tweaked.

Focus on selling models and not the distribution nightmares of updating model stats. (Or being like before and seldom/never updating model stats)

If cards could be instantly updated via electronic form, we would not have to have all sorts of crazy rulings to redefine words and discuss capitalization so as to pretend like the print versions of cards are still somehow rooted in reality.

Print Rule books are hopefully more stable and less prone to change.

Think of free PDF cards like the "shareware" version of the game. It might get more people to try them out and become hooked and the moment they want to participate with the rest of the community, they need Wyrd models to go along with their electronic cards. (But they could try it out on their own with proxies)

If we believe this game is great and that people trying it will make them want to play it, then exposure to the game is important. Do we care if there are 10,000 people that only use proxies and Wyrd never gets money from them if it means that another 100,000 people were exposed to the game that might not have been otherwise?

So many other industries seem to have figured out that free tastes lead to more sales. Why can't we?

Agreed. Although, I don't know that I'd characterize it like Wyrd is backward or something as I feel that they are appropriately responsive to their fan base (listen to those who love their game while not backing down on what they find important).

I knew I wanted to buy into the game but didn't drop a penny for some time. This was primarily because there are so many very different models that I didn't know where I wanted to start. Picking up an inexpensive pdf of the cards would be a smart way for new players to get a sense of what they would like. I'm not a market researcher, but I'll go out on a limb a d posit that allowing people to feel they are making well informed purchasing decisions will help them give money to Wyrd more readily and rapidly.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Iron Heel

[Shadowdragon]

From what I understand most miniature gaming companies don't make their money by selling rulebooks and stat cards. In fact they could give them away for free if they really wanted to, but selling them basically covers their printing costs (not an issue with pdfs btw). The real flow of income comes from selling miniatures. I mean each person is going to buy one rulebook (if even that considering most groups share rulebooks) and maybe one deck of stat cards. But, each person is going to be dropping hundreds, even thousands of dollars on miniatures. So, I would happily pay for a pdf of the stat cards (I have three crews that need to be updated) but I seriously doubt Wyrd will go out of business if they gave them away as free downloads. If anything, giving away the stat cards as a free pdf would only encourage people to buy more minis (I know I'd be more likely to buy a mini if I could preview it's stat card first).

[bearn]

From what I understand most miniature gaming companies don't make their money by selling rulebooks and stat cards. In fact they could give them away for free if they really wanted to, but selling them basically covers their printing costs (not an issue with pdfs btw). The real flow of income comes from selling miniatures. I mean each person is going to buy one rulebook (if even that considering most groups share rulebooks) and maybe one deck of stat cards. But, each person is going to be dropping hundreds, even thousands of dollars on miniatures. So, I would happily pay for a pdf of the stat cards (I have three crews that need to be updated) but I seriously doubt Wyrd will go out of business if they gave them away as free downloads. If anything, giving away the stat cards as a free pdf would only encourage people to buy more minis (I know I'd be more likely to buy a mini if I could preview it's stat card first).

Uh.. GW would like to have a word with you about not making money off rulebooks. They are well known fanatics about protecting their intellectual property and not having any of their rules systems in electronic format.

[Gorbad]

Protecting your IP and digital rules are not really part of the same issue, and GW did actually use to have PDF versions of all the specialist games available for free. But its only very recently they have started selling electronic versions of their main games.

I guess its a matter of resources and relationships. I'm sure I read that the reason the old PDF was like it was was because many BnM stores didn't liked to carry books that are available for free online. So it could potentially harm people finding out about the game in stores. Its not always as simple as just sticking a pdf on your server.

[PierceSternum]

Finding PDFs online for the models and a "basic" ruleset could drive people to the BnM to BUY the books and models. I like the mini-starter rules that PP hands out for free. You could put that equivalent into a PDF so people could get a taste of the game for free.

http://privateerpress.com/files/WarmachineMKII%20Quick%20Start%20Rules%20Front.pdf

http://privateerpress.com/files/WarmachineQuickStartRulesBack.pdf

Regular updates of electronic versions of the cards keeps could keep the established competitive base happy by keeping things more balanced and rules clearer as time goes on and would allow anyone on the planet to try the game and see if they want to go to the store to buy the official full-rulebook and models.

Edited September 1, 2013 by PierceSternum

[JimTullis]

I would be willing to pay a small sum for access to PDFs of all the cards.

Even if they have no art and are watermarked.

I have a half sheet binder with my Hamelin Update PDFs and my Rasputina Beta PDFs in.

It's a lot easier to read than the cards, and Both sides of a card are on one page, so I don't have to keep turning them over. Still not sure what to do about upgrades.

[t4zz]

There are a lot of companies who leave the game rules for free.

Corvus Belli left all the rules for free (not the fluff, just the rules), made a wiki for indexing the rules and the FAQ, a free crew builder (with all the units info). That, in my local gaming club, made a lot of new players. It was just easy and cheap to try.

I think Malifaux is a great game. Different, and that makes a really good point too. But that should be just another reason to buy more minis, not the way to get money... Wyrd's miniatures are awesome for getting that

So I guess that option would be a great one for Wyrd too. Free the rules, cards, etc. Or something symbolic, like $10-15 for access to that material.

[Grim]

I wish the rules manual were available in PDF format.... and willing to pay at "Standard" PDF/e-Book prices. I like Infinity/Corvus Belli approach too.

[Duck21]

Looks like non of wyrd staff noticed this thread yet. Or pretend not to notice it.

[Tuttleboy]

Looks like non of wyrd staff noticed this thread yet. Or pretend not to notice it.

...or have and are super busy with Wave 2 and Through the Breach and don't have a fully developed plan yet.

[Mason]

...or have and are super busy with Wave 2 and Through the Breach and don't have a fully developed plan yet.

Not to mention all of the post-Gencon shipping that's been going on.

[PierceSternum]

Not to mention all of the post-Gencon shipping that's been going on.

I would pay handsomely (Like 8 or 9 dollars even), to get a picture of Eric, Nathan, Mack and Justin sweating balls packing boxes while Jacquelyne(sp?) looks down from the manager's air-conditioned window office at the shipping floor yelling at her minions to pack faster.

Gencon 2014 nightmare model!!!!

(P.S. PDF's for models please... I could get about 30 kids proxying their 40K stuff until they realize how much more they like Malifaux and pull them in. (And I could sell their parents on how much cheaper it could wind up being. (Unless they are silly like me))

[CRC]

Looks like non of wyrd staff noticed this thread yet. Or pretend not to notice it.

This would be a big decision for them to take. They're not just going to hang out in here lightly chatting about this sort of thing.

Further, even if they'd already decided to sell ebooks of the rules/cards, they might not want to announce it yet, for a wide variety of reasons.

[Duck21]

...or have and are super busy with Wave 2 and Through the Breach and don't have a fully developed plan yet.

And after wave 2 they'll be busy with wave 3.

---------- Post added at 05:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:22 PM ----------

This would be a big decision for them to take. They're not just going to hang out in here lightly chatting about this sort of thing.

Further, even if they'd already decided to sell ebooks of the rules/cards, they might not want to announce it yet, for a wide variety of reasons.

And the big decision I have to take is: do I absolutely need to play with everything I own or not? You see I invested in all factions, I own over 150 profiles. So should I spend £80 ($110) on cards Just to be able to play with all the toys I already bought from Wyrd? I was hoping to save some money by trading cards with other players. But Wyrd strategically closed that avenue by making generic upgrades only available in arsenal decks.

[Fenrir]

Has something changed? The rules manual and cards were always available for download?

[Fenton Crack]

Has something changed? The rules manual and cards were always available for download?

Yup. Neither the rules, the cards, nor the M2E beta versions of either are currently available for download.

[Fenrir]

Yup. Neither the rules, the cards, nor the M2E beta versions of either are currently available for download.

Wait to see if the equivalent appears for 2nd edition, then decide, I reckon.

[Adran]

Historically M1 rules and cards weren't availble for download.

They had to update the rules on several of thwe cards from book 1 as they were able to break the game. They decided to print V2 cards, and allow people to excahange theire V1 cards for the V2 cards for free. They put the PDFs of the corrected cards online. the cards that didn't need changing were no on line.

Then the requirements for errata continued, and involved core rules, such a schem, and they felt the need to republish the current rules in an upto date format - the rules manual. Thiey decided to put the core of it up for free on line. It didn't contain everything, but it was enough to play the game.

The M2E is a much greater change than eitehr of those two, and was a more planned and expected change/update. I don't think the same moral pressure is on them to publish electronic copies. They have already made the arsenal decks which are cheap ways to update your already purchased models.

If in 2 years they need to signifigantly Errata M2E, then we might have a similar situation, but I wouldn't be holding my breath.