scared of malifaux 2.0

[ooshawn]

Anyone else scared they are gonna have to throw away their models when the cuddle hammer comes to their favorite crews. Especially since im strictly neverborn...

[zKoTTe]

Why all the sudden talk of a 2.0?

The game works fine as it is, book 1 models are not as effective as newer ones, but they still fulfill a role and is not useless at all.

I would welcome some cuddles on the Neverborn, they are more cost effective compared to other factions, but they are not invincible.

I'm a Neverborn player and i wouldn't worry at all.

[rancor709]

I wouldn't worry about that. If and when they do a 2.0 or a mass update. It will be more making sure all factions o equal footing and that a majority of models are actual workable models at least thata my opinion. Teddy vs copallious should be a hard choice and so should the rest of thr models at that and other ss

[Fetid Strumpet]

I could be wrong, but I doubt Malifaux 2.0 is eminent in the near future. I'm also confused as to why you think you would need to throw away models if they get cuddled.

While, expressly in my own opinion, Wyrd hasn't gotten the balance right in many cases, as a whole they have done a very good job, enough so that outside of a few cases I still love this game immensely and play whenever I can.

If they cuddled any of the current power masters I would expect them to do it in such as way as the Dreamer and Hamlin Erratas, which so far has been seen as a very positive step by the community at large.

I'd also expect that, outside of a few situations very few models would get altered to be toned down in power all that much. I think it more likely that they would tweak one or two of the more aggressive problem children's abilities, adjust the initial SS caches of the current power masters, and then actually update the less powerful masters to be on a more equal footing.

Book 4, while a single book, and certainly having a few examples of real power models, Thomas the Pain Engine and Izamu the two I've seen most often, the book is overall remarkably balanced against itself, and shows a very large step in the maturity of design that books 2 and 3 simply don't even come close to.

While I personally don't like the 'faction within a faction' of the 10 Thunders, nor do I like that they added 5 new masters to the game when they had in the past stated that they weren't currently looking at expanding via masters and instead were going to go via the henchman route, I have to say that outside of one exception all the new masters are very neat, play very well, and you very rarely ever feel like you never had a chance against them.

That being the case I would expect that whenever Malifaux 2.0 comes around Wyrd will devote the same amount of care to the redesign that they have demonstrated in both the major errata and in the design of book four. Frankly rather than dread the onset of 2.0 you should be eager for it as not only will you get the opportunity to play against even more masters than are currently used, but even better, you won't hear people groan about Neverborn every time you take them out of the case.

[Gruesome]

I always felt like all the talk about 2.0 was more fishing from a couple people to:

1. Use it as a cover for complaining about things they dislike in Malifaux

2. A test to see if someone from Wyrd took the bait and confirmed or denied it.

Personally, there are a few words and rules I'd like clearer, but that's about it in terms of rules.

I'd rather not see Cuddling... I'd rather see select models get help instead to bring them up onto the same playing field.

It would not have to be a sweeping reform, just maybe "WORST 3" at a time... Like once a quarter. And if we reach a point where there is NO consensus on worst 3, then maybe we are done.

(Ice Golem and Malifaux Child, I got your back!)

[rancor709]

I still contend no finer paperweight than a malifaux child

[Soul Puppet]

I have to say that outside of one exception all the new masters are very neat, play very well, and you very rarely ever feel like you never had a chance against them.

Which one? I've played against Misaki and Jakob and didn't think either were unbeatable. Not come up against any of the others yet but don't fear any of them from what I've read so far.

I agree that 2.0 is probably some way off and is more likely to resolve relatively minor things than a complete overhaul. Of course, I've been wrong before.

[Odin1981]

I have this odd thought that the first iteration of dreamer was based around the designers getting sick of hearing about the "malifaux child" complaints and thought up dreamer an said ok now let me here the real complaints about punk kids in need of a babysitter .

[96p]

The first Version of the Dreamer wasn't all that bad... he got so bad after the Rules Manual because they changed the activation order stuff which made him much faster.

[Gorbad]

The problem with doing rolling erratas is that more and more cards become out of date, complicating playing and generally just being annoying. So either there need to be an easy, fast, cheap and official way of getting new cards or there should be a big update and something like faction decks containing all updated cards.

[Sliver Chocobo]

I'm pretty sure we are already at Malifaux 2.0 or 3.0 and nobody's noticed so i wont worry about it

[dgraz]

that being the case i would expect that whenever malifaux 2.0 comes around wyrd will devote the same amount of care to the redesign that they have demonstrated in both the major errata and in the design of book four. Frankly rather than dread the onset of 2.0 you should be eager for it as not only will you get the opportunity to play against even more masters than are currently used, but even better, you won't hear people groan about neverborn every time you take them out of the case.

qft.

[nilus]

I'm pretty sure we are already at Malifaux 2.0 or 3.0 and nobody's noticed so i wont worry about it

Nah we are at 1.5 Fix Pack 4

[Alviaran]

Why all the sudden talk of a 2.0?

The game works fine as it is, book 1 models are not as effective as newer ones, but they still fulfill a role and is not useless at all.

I would welcome some cuddles on the Neverborn, they are more cost effective compared to other factions, but they are not invincible.

I'm a Neverborn player and i wouldn't worry at all.

I disagree that the game works fine. Balance can use some minor adjustments but the rules themselves need a very big overhaul to streamline things and clarify interactions. Honestly, I feel this is the one thing holding Malifaux back right now. Warmachine was doing well, then they rolled out Mk2 which did some rebalancing, but was more about applying everything they have learned about game design to it, streamlining (you do not need six different abilities that all equate to the same thing. Rename the same so rules interactions with them are now consistent), etc. and then Warmachine has taken off. I played Warmachine during Mk1 and while I enjoyed the game, I don't love it the way I do now. There was a lot of rules ideas that plainly weren't healthy for the game and those were reworked or completely tossed out. Some for ease of play, some because the interaction was just clunky and was unfun or promoted unfun gameplay from opponents.

I feel Malifaux is in a similar spot. Book 4 IMO shows that Wyrd have learned a lot about balance. Easily the most balanced and interesting book to date. For the game's core systems, they can't really change that midstream though. The language with the rules themselves could stand to be a lot cleaner though.

And Wyrd, for the love of god, soulstone, whatever, PLEASE fix your index! Every time I have to look up an ability or characteristic, I have to go trawling through the book to find it. Put "Construct" or whatever in the index and refer me to that page. Please, print things like Lifer and other rules in the rulebook. Half the time, there is a single word for an ability that does appear on other models, but isn't considered a "common" ability, and so I can't look it up. As someone who does not play Malifaux often and comes back to it for months at a time amongst playing many other games, I don't remember the nuances of certain rules or need a quick refresher. So I end up having to sift through my rulebook constantly throughout the turn.

I do really enjoy Malifaux, but I think the game will be much better when a 2.0 rolls around. For now, I keep playing the current game because I do enjoy it, despite its many flaws. I think it can only get better and I eagerly await that. And considering how many people I have seen turned off of Malifaux because of its current rules, I know they eagerly await it as well.

[Korrosion]

Why all the sudden talk of a 2.0?

Several reasons:

1. Malifaux 2.0 was mentioned by a rules marshal.

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?38402-Yin-Mass-of-Viscera-and-the-old-Attack-vs-attack-question&p=497460&viewfull=1#post497460

2. I've noticed that the boards have slowed down a little in the past monthish. Could be holiday related or it could be because the most prolific posters are posting in the hidden playtest forums instead of here.

3. With Gencon being about 7 months away I'm making a semi educated guess that for the new book to be available at gencon it(and the cards/models which will both go through a similar process) has to be ready for printing in about 2-3 months. Thus lending weight to my thoughts that the playtest is alive and well. The time line for the book is probably something like 2 weeks to review proofs, 2 weeks for printer to make changes as noted in the review, 2 more weeks for final proofs to be approved, about 5-8 weeks in the "print que", a few days or a week for printing/binding, 3-6 weeks for the container(s) to ship. That is a rough guess of 14-20 weeks from the end of the playtest to the books/cards being printed and shipped. If I were the one in charge I'd want a month or more of "cushion" to handle the inevitable snafu's that will appear. Especially after the last promise that 70% would be available to purchase at the con. I'm not complaining, just thinking that Wyrd will be more cautious about their promises from now on.

That brings us to the playtest being done at least 18-24 weeks BEFORE Gencon. Thats roughly 4-6 months. So IF I'm correct that the playtest for book five (Special Forces? 2.0?) is going on now then this is the best time to talk about it. Later today I'll ask a friend who is a book publisher is my timeline guesses are pretty close.

Regardless of when or if 2.0 happens after the last few errata's I'm sure Wyrd will take the time to do things right. Or at least as right as humanly possible.

[CannonFodder]

I don't think a v2 is required. And as for balancing the game, I found during the last play test they took the feedback seriously. I'm in heavy gaming area and many of us have Been in beta tests before with other games and those beta tests feedbacks were completely ignored. I can confirm that some of the changes my group sent back were incorporated.

In general I think after the Hamelin errata was done, the game is balancing quite well. There will always be a bit of a power creep in any game but Wyrd has been doing what it can to slow it.

FYI: then original McCabe was so broken that on turn 2 my friend ripped apart an archer and then Misaki who was full health and defensive stance in a forest with 8 SS. I think we added up the actions he got in one turn and it was 13 actions, from a badly worded ability and reactivate. I was expecting an onslaught but not a slaughter.

[dgraz]

I disagree that the game works fine. Balance can use some minor adjustments but the rules themselves need a very big overhaul to streamline things and clarify interactions. Honestly, I feel this is the one thing holding Malifaux back right now. Warmachine was doing well, then they rolled out Mk2 which did some rebalancing, but was more about applying everything they have learned about game design to it, streamlining (you do not need six different abilities that all equate to the same thing. Rename the same so rules interactions with them are now consistent), etc. and then Warmachine has taken off. I played Warmachine during Mk1 and while I enjoyed the game, I don't love it the way I do now. There was a lot of rules ideas that plainly weren't healthy for the game and those were reworked or completely tossed out. Some for ease of play, some because the interaction was just clunky and was unfun or promoted unfun gameplay from opponents.

While I agree with you in part. I'd like to point out that you can go too far with stream-lining. I used to like Hordes. Mk2 vanilla-fied so many things that it lost its flavor to me. I quit playing it completely. You like Mk2 more, but I hate it....hopefully some middle ground can be reached. I do agree that there are some wonky things that could be worked out (Fetid Strumpet's favorite example springs to mind.....Shambling vs Scout) but I wouldn't want it to go as far as Mk2 did.

[MrNybbles]

I'm pretty sure we are already at Malifaux 2.0 or 3.0 and nobody's noticed so i wont worry about it

If we MUST apply version numbers to everything. . .

[Malifaux Version History]

0.1 Malifaux: A Character-Driven Skermish Game (November 2009)

0.2 Errata & Malifaux FAQ, Version 1, (January 2010)

0.3 Malifaux: Rising Powers (July, 2010)

1.0 Malifaux: Rules Manual (Feburary, 2011)

1.1 Malifaux: Twisting Fates (July, 2011)

1.2 Errata & Clarifications, Version 2 (Thursday, 31st May, 2012)

1.3 Malifaux: Storm of Shadows (August, 2012)

2.0 <<To Be Announced>> (Once enough issues have been accumulated to warrant major core rules changes).

Note: Versions 0.1 and 0.3 of the rules were actually marketing ploys to get people to buy their miniatures, 0.2 and 1.2 are patches. Version 1.0 was the first solid rules after Eric and Nathan realized what kind of Rules Lawyers were actually playing the game. Then 1.2 fixed most of the stuff that was missed that the Rules Lawyers found. Eventually there will be a 2.0, not because of some rumor, but because this is the cycle of Life, Death, and Reanimation of Malifaux.

---

MrNybbles, Version π

Edited January 31, 2013 by MrNybbles
Added Errata (Version 1, January 2010)

[shipwreckgirl]

I have a hard time imagining that there will be a 2.0 so soon after they put out the 1.5 book. Definitely in the camp that would like updated cards for all of the errated models to be made available, though.

[Setoth]

Eventually there will be a 2.0, not because of some rumor, but because this is the cycle of Life, Death, and Reanimation of Malifaux.

It's the cycle of Life, Death, and Reanimation of every game I've ever seen that's even mildly successful

[Jonas Albrecht]

I feel Malifaux is in a similar spot. Book 4 IMO shows that Wyrd have learned a lot about balance. Easily the most balanced and interesting book to date.

I agree. The issue is that Storm of Shadows is dragging around three books worth of "Not Quite There Yet".

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Mr Nybbles I think it is harsh to call book 1 a marketing ploy for models sale. It is a legitimate game system. I wouldn't even call it a beta. It need a lot of fixes for competitive gamers but for the average gamer they worked fine. Seriously gw has put out more broken releases than malifaux book 1.

As for book 2 I doubt we are that close. I imagine ten thunder avatars and a second set of henchman are due before next edition. I think developers have a v2 idea board from release but aren't as hasty to do reboot. Not surprising you would hear talk about it.

[dgraz]

Note: Versions 0.1 and 0.3 of the rules were actually marketing ploys to get people to buy their miniatures,

Wow, these Wyrd guys need to learn how to work smarter...not harder. What an incredible amount of work just for a marketing ploy....a few billboards would have been much easier.

[i_was_like_you]

And Wyrd, for the love of god, soulstone, whatever, PLEASE fix your index! Every time I have to look up an ability or characteristic, I have to go trawling through the book to find it. Put "Construct" or whatever in the index and refer me to that page. Please, print things like Lifer and other rules in the rulebook. Half the time, there is a single word for an ability that does appear on other models, but isn't considered a "common" ability, and so I can't look it up. As someone who does not play Malifaux often and comes back to it for months at a time amongst playing many other games, I don't remember the nuances of certain rules or need a quick refresher. So I end up having to sift through my rulebook constantly throughout the turn.

Or, even better, make the stat cards larger, as you are no longer constrained to folding them inside of clamshell packaging, so that the font can be maybe a wee bit bigger (at least for models like showgirls who have entire cards full of microfont), and then put the full text for the ability on the card (every card) so that we can just glance at it or show it to our opponent.

I find that is one of the biggest hindrances to teaching new players, as they can't just look at the card in front of them, they have to consult the RM, the Quick Reference, or another player (which, if it's just us, that means they have to ask their opponent), just to know what the ability does, much less how it could interact with other things.

So IF I'm correct that the playtest for book five (Special Forces? 2.0?) is going on now then this is the best time to talk about it.

Please, please, please?

I do hope that Hannah counts as a second Freikorps Henchperson, and that similar second Henchpeople appear for each Special Force. I've nearly lost all hope that they'll install the can be upgraded to henchmen rules template hinted at by the Ronin.

If we MUST apply version numbers to everything. . .

[Malifaux Version History]

0.1 Malifaux: A Character-Driven Skermish Game (November 2009)

0.2 Errata & Malifaux FAQ, Version 1, (January 2010)

0.3 Malifaux: Rising Powers (July, 2010)

1.0 Malifaux: Rules Manual (Feburary, 2011)

1.1 Malifaux: Twisting Fates (July, 2011)

1.2 Errata & Clarifications, Version 2 (Thursday, 31st May, 2012)

1.3 Malifaux: Storm of Shadows (August, 2012)

2.0 <<To Be Announced>> (Once enough issues have been accumulated to warrant major core rules changes).

Note: Versions 0.1 and 0.3 of the rules were actually marketing ploys to get people to buy their miniatures, 0.2 and 1.2 are patches. Version 1.0 was the first solid rules after Eric and Nathan realized what kind of Rules Lawyers were actually playing the game. Then 1.2 fixed most of the stuff that was missed that the Rules Lawyers found. Eventually there will be a 2.0, not because of some rumor, but because this is the cycle of Life, Death, and Reanimation of Malifaux.

See my signature and the threads that are still locked because of beating that particular horse. And I wasn't even playing as Showgirls at the time.

I have a hard time imagining that there will be a 2.0 so soon after they put out the 1.5 book. Definitely in the camp that would like updated cards for all of the errated models to be made available, though.

Even if they don't do like the v2 cards exchange program (which was wonderful, btw), having the stat cards with all of the errata applied, even in a text format, would be nice.

[Pierowmaniac]

Personally I think the game could do with a 2.0 sooner rather than later.

More than anything so that new players are not confronted with multiple rulebook options, erratas, card updates and the few rules that just are not clear enough.

I think the developers have enough information now on whats working and what needs adjusting to at least be able to start outlining any changes that need to be made, so I would hope that even if its not planed for this year (Personally I hope it is), then its at least showing up on the release plan within the next 2 years.

It does seem to have gone quite once again on the core game front, aside from the vassal module, which I can't imagine taken away significant game development time (other than Ratty on the graphics side of things).

I guess Im also hoping that the lack of movement on important things like updated PDF cards and the card being available in the store, is a very good Malifaux related reason such as 2.0.

I think I would be very dissapointed if somebody turned round and said 'hey we've not done the PDF's on the core game, because weve been busy making a CCG instead'

Book 4 to me was a good indication that Development are hitting all the right notes and I hope they are going to capatalise on it whislt they are still in the zone