Odin1981

It can't be bad for entry which it isn't. But balance more often then not should be tuned in to high end skilled players. They are the ones who find combo's and such and discover kinks that need to be worked out. However entry level to intermediate level players need to look for options and use them what often kills them is they get hit by something and just give up. Or do not seek to minimize a capability that there opponent has. Most players of these levels think the game works away it doesn't and when someone pilots a list that imposes a different aspect and wrecks there list they do not adjust. I know you like to play fluff crews and don't like dipping outside of the box(s) but the thing with those two models is the protection from Francisco and the + to damage for Papa that makes them so popular. For Francisco I think it is most often wrong to put his +2+2 on a master unless it is vital to tank 1/2 or more of a opponents crew list. In the beta I got more out of him by buffing other henchmen 9 times out of 10. A 2 man tag team of him and Samael is a thing of beauty to behold on the table from a kill team perspective even more so with obey user models to increase there ap (for free focuses or walks to get into range mostly). I don't know what his base def is off the top of my head but if it is 5 Samael becomes a force at def 7 if not 6 ain't terrible either. For Papa the DM is obviously for obey protection so he doesn't destroy your own crew but if you aren't facing against it you can leave the DM out of the list to save points. He is probably just too good at damage efficiency given the nature of the game nowadays. By providing a + to damage he really ups the reliability of being able to 2 shot or 3 shot 6-8 wound models and the rapid fire brings down if all 3 hit just about everything that isn't armor 2+ or have spend ss to heal. Your hitting models have to put in work in this edition and quickly due to 5 turns so he really is a strong option to include for a kill team of models while your other stuff goes and gets VP to win. Is it possible to turn 1 obey something know if your (papa) haven't left your deployment zone nowadays mate? Cause that is the only thing I could see that could get him before he goes in the box?

The big dual clawed man is often misunderstood in how he is used effectively. Most people see his damage track and think he is a offensive piece. Where in reality he is a counter punch piece. I haven't played this game in ages so i am not hip to current trends/ things that cool kids play. But with him in general he is a piece you take to support the ranged offensive component of guild lists so that when stuff gets to jamming up your ranged components he is the model used to unjam them. He in most of my experience is best used with Dita and Lucious. They have pieces and/or abilities that allow him to walk into combat and then activate and swing for the fences to clear stuff up. Because of his unfortunate movement stat he doesn't do well as a offensive missile that you can fire and forget about. They allow him the freedom (his ap) to get where you need him to kill whatever got threw your offensive package of characters that pew pew pew really well.

Familiarity with models and experiance helps but don't fret over that stuff just play games, get exp in the game system, find a particular playstyle that works for you, and then start to tweak with stuff to see if you get good results with stuff. The more you play and use stuff the better you get. It also can help if you try to tweak things to work in your favor given certain factors. Like yesterday for me I played a game first one in awhile. I purposely took stuff I wasn't use too to figure some things out. My list was kinda flawed given the models I had on hand but it let me see if my theoryfaux was correct in practice. I learned that changes needed to be made but I got experiance using stuff to see if synergies and combo's would work out. I took a Lucius list with full stones and the purchased loyalties upgrade, doppleganger, a beckoner, a performer, a austringer, and papa loco, a lawyer and tannen. Didn't need full stones and I didn't really see the benefit of papa in the list. Also I was lacking a actual heavy hitter which was one of the main reasons I got stomped. But the matchup might not have been good for me as well. Because of the ability when Lucius walks you can make something take a (1) action papa wasn't needed because a focus on the austringer in range of the lawyer for a + to the morale duel to get the ability was more than fine in itself. I wanted to try the performer cause it looked cool with its abilities and is a merc this edition. Seemed alright but my list could be refined better. Tannen was ok but I could see him getting changed. His effects weren't to prominent on the game. Also I was specifically trying to go too combo centric and it effected the lists performance in my eyes. Loved the doppleganger but I need more exp with that piece don't believe I got the most out of her in the game.

Yeah that is his full first name in the engrish prints.

Perdita isn't stupid she is smart . I would say that would be way overkill on just one asset though. Do the time honored fashion of the Ortegas and split up into 2-3 kill teams and wreck more than one model each turn obviously . I personally would drop sammy for Johnny Cash (because he is the damn man in black) or a latigo guy and a watcher to have a scenario presence but I like lists that have generalist components in them. Depending on positioning and board table you could overlap Granny or Dita to have support coverage for the another team if something bad happens.

The thing with him is like dita he has a use against cover without needing a watcher shot to relieve him of the benefit of cover against def 4-5. Against higher defense 6+ he is better off getting support from a watcher shot. But what he really gains from inclusion in a Perdita crew is out of activation movement so that his activation ap are always all live. With a shackled, or obey for witch hunt, or abuela x move he gets to reposition for free from his ap so that he can unload a rapid fire into said target. Also depending on positioning without moving up all by his lonesome and out into the wind he can threaten a fair bit of area with modest turn 1 movement without exposing himself to a unfair amount of attacks. Also in a synergy chain is with francisco he becomes something fierce. If Francisco needs a different best friend forever making Sammy def 6-7 wp 7-8 (don't know his exact stats off hand have to pick up a card set today) then you essentially from a damage perspective make two ditas in one list. Two models with def 7 and nice damage profiles are very nice, he has rapid fire naturally so no need for a rapid fire upgrade only needs witch hunt and he is golden. Plus two defense 7 models with access to healing flips stays around for awhile outside of red joker damage considerations. Plus in a purely high value impact duo they aren't a combo that you can just send one model after to take care off. Also a suicide stalker 4-6" in front of Sam take one for the team eating a charge/ap on him preventing them from getting full ap on a good model then turns him on full throttle for his activation damage wise. Or in the best case scenario you get activation at the start of the turn and stalker is in range to charge said model tying them up and doing some damage and burning on said piece so you hold said model in place so it can't get a charge to maximise its movement in addition to its ap usuage via attacks..

Ah ok thank you so much for the info. Good to hear you have been doing well also. Was weird perusing threw today seeing so many unknown posters.

Sup who is this in real world life? Been to long not really savvy to internet handles.

Why so mean bro ?

Hey man how ya been? Need someone to teach me about this forums multi quote use cause the next couple replies are gonna suck cause I'm computer illiterate.

Ah ok sup man. Drop me a pm about Portland then to catch up. Don't want to clog the thread up with off topic stuff .

Do you play with the cheated fates group Joe runs in Wixxum? Probably heading out there tommorow. I thought I saw you in another thread say you are from Michigan.

Yeah been around 3-4 months or so. I saw Dgraz in some titles. Our there still any other "oldies" around (say like jonas or one who fell types?). Edit: Nevermind I'm dumb. Been close to 15 months.

Been looking threw the forums for a bit this afternoon (no work today). And he seems rather forgotten about in these parts. But he is a great model that gets better if you take 1-2 stalkers with him. And that is a fairly cheap package to include into whatever combo of models you like. He is probably the best at damage per point spent in the guild faction. And he can be thrown into a dita list for great effect. He fits the theme with a Sonnia crew. And isn't half bad with J. I don't play hoff so I can't comment much on him. And I'm from the old days of 1E so Mcmourning will always be a filthy resser in my eyes.

You make sure samuel is within 6" of her when you finish her activation.