Headcase2 Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 I kill basket loads of rats, they just reappear. Well, that's your problem right there. Why waste AP on killing something that will just repop and activate again to bite you? Learn how Hamelin's crew works (it's a one-trick pony) and you can beat him. Except in reconnoitre... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodDragonCC Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 I also had some problems with Hamelin although that was cause I was to lazy to read his crew. That all changed once I realized I could ignore the rats and just move through them to get to the rat catchers and Hamelin lol. Tbh I find niño is a good choice to be able to take out the rat catchers as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardlec Posted September 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 My point: Beating guild has been a solved problem. Take Hamlin. Engage the shooters with rats, then move the rat catchers in. Before long, any guild character is killed by the swarm of rats, and rats never die. If nix is availible, again engage the shooters, bring nix in close, and see if you can frustrate the guild player into quitting. With a - - in the Aura, there is nothing effective. I was able to kill Nix with my mechanical attendent from a suitable distance. I moved twice to avoid rats and shot thanks to machine puppet. The turn after I got Nix, the rats got my totem. If I bring Sonia, take tater tots and watch the witchlings kill themselves on black blood. If I bring Hoffman or Lady J, take a lot of little things and out-activate me. My favorite crew, most successful, is Lucius, 2 Austringèrs and 6 hounds. I use the rest of my points for something mission specific. As I will not play the Hamburgler, this is usually a way to Avoid being out-activated (overwhelmed by numbers) Kill myself on black blood (Austringèrs can hide behind terrain and strike at a distance) Kill Von Shill. Many attacks at minimum damage. Damage one to damage seven does the same amount of wounds. Six hounds will take him down. (It takes two rounds, unless he's been hurt )This works on spirits, too. I have all the guild masters except Perdita. I have All the arcanist masters as my wife plays arcanists. It is much much easier to order for her. Focus on objectives is how I played the Hamburgler. When you can't move or shoot because you are engaged with unkillable rats, that advice is moot. I take "frame for murder" a lot. That was how I earned one VP. As the league is over, I no longer have to reveal my strategy, that may help too. Disengage from a rat swarm: tried it. Tried it. Tried it. Tried it again. Sorry folks. The only way I will play Hamlin is when I can KILL RATS. Pale rider has been out of stock at the distributor my FLGS uses. I think they only cast twelve. Out and available are different things. This is the reason I believe Guild is being set up. With the fewest options, the fewest number of characters available, it is still hard to even special order figures. I want the Pale Rider because I am a Clint Eastwood fan. As a tactical option it seems weak for the point cost. The Guild, not just me, THE GUILD LOST. We need to rethink, regroup and learn to win. This means stop doing the things that netted a defeat. Develop new tactics. We're not getting reinforcements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 I have yet to have a problem like you're describing against Hamelin as a Guild player. Your LGS's distributor likely hasn't put in an order for a long while, the Pale Rider is in stock all over the place. It sounds like you need some time to vent. Go ahead and do that, and come back when you're willing to listen to people that beat Hamelin with the Guild masters using mdoels that are available right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 This is the reason I believe Guild is being set up. It's a conspiracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLord Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 Focus on objectives is how I played the Hamburgler. When you can't move or shoot because you are engaged with unkillable rats, that advice is moot. I take "frame for murder" a lot. That was how I earned one VP. As the league is over, I no longer have to reveal my strategy, that may help too. Disengage from a rat swarm: tried it. Tried it. Tried it. Tried it again. Sorry folks. The only way I will play Hamlin is when I can KILL RATS. Um... I don't know if you've tried hard enough yet - Rats cannot block disengaging models, and can be moved through, so unless the board is literally covered with Rats, I don't see how you can be failing to get away from them... Also, as some one else has previously noted, issues with Hamlin are on a clock - the rules team have already stated he is going to be errata'd... Once that happens, you issues with Guild will all be dealt with it seems... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin1981 Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) Well that definatley explains alot the one master you don't own is the one with the best matchup against hamelin imho. Sonnia isn't bad either if you have the right stuff. They cannot play the I make you insignificant game against guild chock full of shrug off and dispel magic. 3 shots or 3 swings kills nix and you play against hamelin just like you do pandora in that if you have a high wp crew every ability of his will generally require a ss use to get the stuff off and he/she will generally over the course of 2-3 turns spend their pool down to 1-2 ss and will then present a weakness that you can exploit. The austringers spend the entire game hunting stolen/obediant wrench totem dude. And until you kill any/everything within 6" that helps create rats you ignore them. There you go quit whining. You have the best advice to take on Hamelin as he currently stands. You also are playing the faction that can ignore half of what makes Hamelin a b$$$$ to play against in the insignificant stuff he is fond of. Also be hopeful for a new book 4 master release for us cause if that happens you buy the relic that can let guardsmen reactivate and positionally depending you could take out 4 stolen a turn with that with only 2 austringers. Hamelin can only make 1 a turn in addition to what he starts with and if he has already started to advance up the board they are already in range of hunting raptor strikes. Edited September 1, 2012 by Odin1981 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 the relic that can let guardsmen reactivate It's only Black Sheep that can be reactivated......of course Sidir is a Black Sheep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin1981 Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 That sucks then maybe he won't be as high of a priority on the book 4 buylist for me then. On a sidenote I can't wait for the book to be on sale at a lgs I frequent so I can read unit entries and formulate what can do with the models as their released so I could apply them to existing crews of mine or potentially make new ones (mei whatever is interesting from what I have heard to this point) plus the trappers and traps seem good from what I have heard up to this point so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 That sucks then maybe he won't be as high of a priority on the book 4 buylist for me then. If'n yer a big Guildee like me.....then he should be high on your list. He is amazing and a ton of fun to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracomax Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 And Movement shennanigans. We needed movement shennanigans, and we got them. shennanigans! *is carted away in a white coat, babbling about shenannigans* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroFire Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 (edited) It's only Black Sheep that can be reactivated...... Spell reads, "Target non‐Master friendly model with the Black Sheep or Guardsman Characteristic gains Reactivate." Edited September 2, 2012 by NeuroFire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 I stand corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin1981 Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 Oh ok cool then he and mei feng will probably be the two masters I pick up then. Super austringers with drill sgt totem and mccabe spell hear I come lol. ---------- Post added at 02:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:51 PM ---------- And Movement shennanigans. We needed movement shennanigans, and we got them. shennanigans! *is carted away in a white coat, babbling about shenannigans* As someone who regularly runs dita and watchers/dogs I find movement stuff overrated. Our counter to movement is ranged board control. Often after the first turn in most of my games running guild outside of objective grabbers the only time I have to move a model with a walk/charge is with obey for repositioning for a new threat range/charge vector. However the main thing I strive for in my guild lists is as close to a 1 to 1 ratio as possible between ranged models and melee capable models so I can 2 man team up models that support each together and don't require much beyond that. If you function your models as self supporting fire teams it really isn't that bad where you have the ranged dudes (say santiago in this discussion backed up with fransisco or the austringer with executioner and so forth, perdita and a stalker) you have a team of two models that cover for each other and strangle hold the opponent into having to overcommit to a specific location of the board to have any hope to get a scheme/strat that is guarded by any of the three above mentioned teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brettqpublic Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 If you function your models as self supporting fire teams it really isn't that bad where you have the ranged dudes (say santiago in this discussion backed up with fransisco or the austringer with executioner and so forth, perdita and a stalker) you have a team of two models that cover for each other and strangle hold the opponent into having to overcommit to a specific location of the board to have any hope to get a scheme/strat that is guarded by any of the three above mentioned teams. I tend to build my lists in a similar fashion. Creating modules that are self sufficient and well rounded is a solid list building strategy for Guild. Using the above mentioned strategy this afternoon I won A Line in the Sand 6-2 as the attacker vs. Rasputina. My force was split as follows: Module 1: Executioner; Convict Gunslinger; Enslaved Nephlim Module 2: Santiago; Francisco Roaming: Perdita; Watcher I also like Witchling Stalkers paired with Death Marshals, Francisco and Nino, and Brutal Effigy, Santiago, Guardian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 Guild did so badly in the recent dead heat campaign that they earnt the most sector points. Yes, they did a rubbish job of turning them into Campaign points, but I'm pretty sure you can't use the results of Dead heat to say guild can't win anything. I'm going to start on the assumption that you know when you are facing Hamelin or spirits. Facing Spirits Most spirits are low wounds to compensate for their spirit ability. Just keep hitting them with the guilds incredible damage profiles and they will die. Witchling stalkers will just eat through any spirit in melee. Exocist is very good when yo know you are facing spirits. A little slow, but a great support model. Facing Hamelin The biggest problem is the standard Guild tactics do not work. Focusing all your fire on Hamelin will just see him gettign up again. blowing up individual rat bases is probably completely ineffectual. Spearding damage onto a wide range of models will just see them healed. You need to dismantle the crew in the correct order. Early targets are the stolen, Ratcatchers and Nix. If you think you can kill any of thses, then do so. Its only worth attacking Rats if they are outside of the aura. Once Hamelin is out of Stolen, he can be killed. You need to learn what your opponents crew does, and how to stop it functioning. Its not hugely different in that aspect to any other crew, except the tactic of kill everything that gets close doesn't really work. Terror is a defence mechanism. If you have somethign with terror its got a good chance of surviving a swarm, and sperading it out. But like all defense mechanisms, it only works so far. Somedays it will win you the game alone, but it has no garentee so don't rely on it Von Schill does not remove the merc limit, he removed the SF limit on Freikorps. Two different limits. Von Schill says "Models containing this model may ignore the 2 mecenary limit" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozz Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 Von Schill says "Models containing this model may ignore the 2 mecenary limit" True, but he does still say only frikorps so you still can not hire the required mercs for the list this comment was made for:) Although i had never noticed that on his card before so thanks for the pointer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nix Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 Von Schill says "Models containing this model may ignore the 2 mecenary limit" Wow, I stand corrected. Clearly I do not play enough Resser's *grin*....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Git Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Wow, I stand corrected. Clearly I do not play enough Resser's *grin*....... snap!! However most ressers wouldn't know this either... crew + Von Schill as a one man kick a$$!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardlec Posted September 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 I have looked at Hamburger again and I do not see where I can ignore rats in terms of: I can disengage without a test or I can shoot at other things while in Base to Base contact with them. I would like to believe this is true, because then I can go after the stolen and rat catchers more or less unimpeded. Being able to defeat Hamlin will not much diminish my disgust and hatred of rats. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 I have looked at Hamburger again and I do not see where I can ignore rats in terms of: I can disengage without a test or I can shoot at other things while in Base to Base contact with them. I would like to believe this is true, because then I can go after the stolen and rat catchers more or less unimpeded. Being able to defeat Hamlin will not much diminish my disgust and hatred of rats. Thanks. It's a rule on the rat card I believe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Skies Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Unfocussed : This model may not block disengaging models. Models may move through this models base, but may not stop on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardlec Posted September 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 This changes my tactics on rats. Thanks. I still hate them. Who else likes the lawyer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunce002917 Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 I like the Lawyer.. a bit pricey but great for buffing/debuffing... plus, it a bit hard to hit/kill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLord Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 I don't much care for the Lawyer - I don't really see a place for him outside of having Lucius as well, as he's just so slow without the Reinforcements spell bringing him in to the action, and most of our masters want to play up the table quicker than that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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