Explorers Upgrades. What do you take?

[Cranky Old Man]

I stopped taking upgrades because i would forget i had them! Which ones are you taking and with which models in Explorers?

[TheUnseemlyOne]

I like Flush with Cash on Botanists

[im_open_to_suggestions]

Flush on any minions for the card draw.

im the same as you with the others. totally forget them. Hidden agenda i always forget the ping damage and treasure map i always forget the push until the model died in a position it wouldnt have been in if i had actually moved them. 

[Mindbadger]

Flush with Cash seems to be the best of them, I tend to use it on models who need to be relatively close to the action but aren't the most surviveable, bonus points if you have models who are likely to die nearby. So models like Anya 2 or Dr Meredith Stanley. A special note goes to Winson Finnegan, forcing a duel to fail causes his Luck Thief ability to heal him. The card draw on the minion ability seems powerful, but I tend not to put the upgrade on minions as much, probably something I should try.

As for the other 2 upgrades, they seem a bit less impactful for their cost. Hidden Agenda can give a ping of damage occasionally, but needs to be someone who is either taking a lot of actions or is taking a lot of hits, so I wouldn't really want to put this on a minion which might die too fast to get any benefit. Even then, it requires your opponent to decided to cheat. The cheating face-down can give some nice mindgames, but if your enemy wants to win a duel, they will just cheat high. You can maybe make them waste a card. I haven't really used this much.

Treasure map is again a bit low impact. Deadly Pursuit is nice, especially in Guard the Stash, but Buried Treasure is a bit situational with such low range and takes away the model's normal bonus action. Again, Carry the Loot would be good, but minions tend to be a bit easier to kill and this puts a bigger target on it's head so I again don't think I would take it often on a minion. I haven't tried this one out much, though I have considered taking it on someone like Anya 2, a slower model who you still want up the field, without having to waste AP on it. Plus she has a relatively situational bonus action so having 2 of them isn't as bad.

There are definitely stronger faction upgrades in other factions in my opinion, Explorer's ones aren't amazing, just ok.

 

[Adran]

Treasure map is a solid tech upgrade. If you discover you are facing Fae then the ability to remove undergrowth can come in very handy. I used it a lot when I was facing Kaeris, and removed several pyres each game. But it does want you to find a model that doesn't have a great bonus action ( or has a situational one) which isn't so common in explorers. 

[Cranky Old Man]

Good discussion thanks people. I will try flush with cash on a Botanist.

[Maniacal_cackle]

When I first started I liked Flush with Cash on minions, but have grown to appreciate Flush with Cash (with a big cache) on important models critical to the gameplan.

Harata with flush with cash is the clearest example of this IMO. The difference between Maxine 2 and Harata vs Maxine 2 with Flush Harata is pretty big IMO.

[santaclaws01]

2 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

When I first started I liked Flush with Cash on minions, but have grown to appreciate Flush with Cash (with a big cache) on important models critical to the gameplan.

Harata with flush with cash is the clearest example of this IMO. The difference between Maxine 2 and Harata vs Maxine 2 with Flush Harata is pretty big IMO.

And then the other FWC goes on a minion.

[hydranixx]

On 8/11/2022 at 10:48 PM, Mindbadger said:

I haven't tried this one out much, though I have considered taking it on someone like Anya 2, a slower model who you still want up the field, without having to waste AP on it. Plus she has a relatively situational bonus action so having 2 of them isn't as bad.

100% this, I glue Treasure Map to Anya2 for this very reason. It's basically the equivalent of an extra 5 Walks throughout the game, except those Walks happen in the End-Phase, just before scoring, so you can scoot her around to deny enemy Scheme Markers.

 

I also really like Treasure Map on Botanists (with McCabe2 Relic attached), if Catch & Release is in the pool, and/or if the opponent is bringing a particularly marker-reliant master, provided I can afford the 2ss. Deadly Pursuit allows it to effortlessly score 1-2vp off Catch & Release, and it also becomes a serious threat to marker-reliant masters like Hoffman, Kaeris and so on with the  trigger on its Flesh-Eating Spores combining with the Buried Treasure action to rip their markers apart.

Buried Treasure also has natural synergy with the Botanist since it will get a grow token and heal when it removes most types of marker, and if you're counter scheming with it you'll get to draw a card if/when you remove enemy Scheme Markers.

Treasure Map will often just make your Master completely immune to enemy schemes like Catch & Release and Public Demonstration so if I'm not bringing any Henchmen, I very strongly consider stapling Treasure Map to my Master just to remove those options from the scheme pool. In some games where I want a Henchman, I'll consider putting a Map on each. It's not cheap, but it can be worthwhile to dictate what kinds of schemes your opponent is allowed to take.

 

Outside of that, Flush with Cash is rightfully very popular on Minions.

The Once Per Game effect is particularly strong when you cheat for initiative, and it's even more powerful if you end up tying with your opponent and cheating for initiative twice, or even 3 times, since regardless of how many cards you discard, you always get to redraw to your maximum hand size.

It's technically possible to cheat 3+ times for initiative, then pitch your remaining cards and get 6 or 7 new ones, but that'd be a one in a million play.

[Mindbadger]

3 hours ago, hydranixx said:

100% this, I glue Treasure Map to Anya2 for this very reason. It's basically the equivalent of an extra 5 Walks throughout the game, except those Walks happen in the End-Phase, just before scoring, so you can scoot her around to deny enemy Scheme Markers.

It does seem great on her, but I find myself torn between Treasure Map and Flush with Cash on her. She seems like an ideal candidate for Flush, she has relatively low health and defences, needs to be at least a bit near the action to be most effective and will have friendly models dying around her (low health drudges) to collect more soulstones. She seems like an obvious target for an enemy beater with how much passive power she puts out. Do you find that her bonus action keeps her safe enough or are you stapling her to the Emissary/Catalan Brawler? Is it just that you value the mobility of Map more and are happier to take the risk of her getting jumped on?

[hydranixx]

On 8/13/2022 at 7:31 PM, Mindbadger said:

It does seem great on her, but I find myself torn between Treasure Map and Flush with Cash on her. She seems like an ideal candidate for Flush, she has relatively low health and defences, needs to be at least a bit near the action to be most effective and will have friendly models dying around her (low health drudges) to collect more soulstones. She seems like an obvious target for an enemy beater with how much passive power she puts out. Do you find that her bonus action keeps her safe enough or are you stapling her to the Emissary/Catalan Brawler? Is it just that you value the mobility of Map more and are happier to take the risk of her getting jumped on?

I generally find Anya2 operates behind the frontlines pretty nicely so is hard to jump upon - and I also generally hire the Emissary and keep it near to her if it's likely she'll be threatened. Most of her keyword is extremely flimsy so he is a massive help to staying alive, plus his Take The Hit has great synergy with Yannic. 

Staying behind the frontline, it might seem like she won't be able to influence the game enough but her ranges are good, her summon doesn't even have a maximum range, and of course, Treasure Map itself lets you play her more conservatively during the turn but still have another 4" threat to be in position to deny Schemes. That said,

I usually feel like Flush with Cash is not worth it on most Soulstone users; buying and using it even once costs you 3ss and gives your opponent 1ss which is a huge cost, and your Soulstone user could have just used Soulstones to Block or Prevent damage 3 times for that price. Flush with Cash can still be worth it on a model like Harata or Meredith - who are key build-around models for their keywords that also happens to be short ranged, and in Harata's case, can't use Soulstones to protect himself. 

I tend to have most of my Drudges summoned quite far away from her, protecting and repositioning my Scheme Markers near the frontlines where I'm trying to score things like Set The Trap or Leave Your Mark, or pulling enemy Scheme Markers out of position. But if you like the Drudges being closer to Anya, and if you know your opponent will definitely kill them, then yeah I could see the value of popping on Flush with Cash - though you could just put it on the Emissary who could intercept any attack that comes your way anyway.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Hmm... I don't think you can use Flush with Cash after using Take the Hit now that I think about it.

[Adran]

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Hmm... I don't think you can use Flush with Cash after using Take the Hit now that I think about it.

You're right you can't. 

[hydranixx]

On 8/16/2022 at 12:07 AM, Maniacal_cackle said:

Hmm... I don't think you can use Flush with Cash after using Take the Hit now that I think about it.

*Dreams of stopping Tara2 kidnap combo comes to a sudden and violent end*

[Kogan Style]

I like Hidden Agenda as a deterrent if assassinate is in the pool, but FWC does a similar job. I do think the ping damage is useful, especially with Cooper2 as a defensive measure as if they cheat, they will trigger scent of blood. This can be used offensively as well if you have a bad control hand and don't flip well. If the opponent cheats to win the duel you can ping them for one damage and trigger scent of blood so you still get to attack them. I don't know if you can proc. Scent of Blood twice if opponent cheats and you still win the duel as it would be two separate sources of damage from Cooper2, but dumping 2 cards from the control hand would be expensive.

EDIT: With the FAQ stating that a model won't do an action that would kill itself, can a 1 health model cheat a duel with a Hidden Agenda model? 

Like others, I think Treasure Map is a GG3 staple. Being able to shift into scoring positions for Covert Ops/Guard the Stash in the End phase is very valuable, alongside Hydranixx's comments about scoring/denying schemes. 

Flush with Cash on minions is very useful in the start phase as you can cheat initiative (hopefully winning) then discard 3 cards to replenish your hand back up to full (4 cards). going through 20% of the deck (assuming no cards held from previous turn) can give you a good read on whether you can push your luck or hold back depending on what has been seen/discarded.

 

TL:DR ExSoc upgrades are amazing, with Hidden agenda being the least amazing, but still really good in certain situations.

 

 

Edited August 30, 2022 by Kogan Style
Question!

[TheUnseemlyOne]

4 hours ago, Kogan Style said:

EDIT: With the FAQ stating that a model won't do an action that would kill itself, can a 1 health model cheat a duel with a Hidden Agenda model? 

Yes, because the damage is coming from an enemy model.  That FAQ entry is in regards to things like paying costs 

[hydranixx]

On 8/30/2022 at 10:59 PM, Kogan Style said:

I like Hidden Agenda as a deterrent if assassinate is in the pool, but FWC does a similar job. I do think the ping damage is useful, especially with Cooper2 as a defensive measure as if they cheat, they will trigger scent of blood. This can be used offensively as well if you have a bad control hand and don't flip well. If the opponent cheats to win the duel you can ping them for one damage and trigger scent of blood so you still get to attack them. I don't know if you can proc. Scent of Blood twice if opponent cheats and you still win the duel as it would be two separate sources of damage from Cooper2, but dumping 2 cards from the control hand would be expensive.

Huh, I never thought about that, but yeah that actually sounds really spicy on Lord Cooper2.

It would trigger twice in that scenario, and as you point out yes, that'd be very costly card-wise. But, you could be biting someone twice with Rex at Stat7, plus potential Adversary, plus Predatory Instinct, so it'd be very accurate. Assuming you hit with both bites that's still anywhere between 9-17 damage plus up to 3 triggers from a single AP....

... I gotta get Lord Cooper2 on the table more!

 

I like Hidden Agenda on many masters both offensively and defensively. You just have more AP to take advantage of it and your actions are more meaningful so cheating face down is often very strong. Anya's a great example where Stat 7 with a Stun trigger is very dangerous, and the ability to cheat Face Down makes it significantly harder to play around.

[James Gus]

I'm just taking the dive into EVS and I'm thinking Hidden Agenda seems interesting on Calypso.  Anyone tried this?  If you have it in the thick of things it's survivable enough that it should proc "Backup Plan" with some regularity.  Plus, with Dr Beebe inside, your opponent can't be sure if you're cheating a throw away but reconfigured low card/9 or a severe.  With Armour 2, maybe you don't care!

Thoughts?

 

[DevilCat]

I don't take them often, but Hidden Agenda is glued to Cooper2 because of Scent of Blood.

[Gheist]

12 hours ago, James Gus said:

I'm just taking the dive into EVS and I'm thinking Hidden Agenda seems interesting on Calypso.  Anyone tried this?  If you have it in the thick of things it's survivable enough that it should proc "Backup Plan" with some regularity.  Plus, with Dr Beebe inside, your opponent can't be sure if you're cheating a throw away but reconfigured low card/9 or a severe.  With Armour 2, maybe you don't care!

Thoughts?

 

I think it's okay to do it, question is why not put it on your master if you are playing maxine2 instead of on calypso. Otherwise its fine you can put out 4 attacks to pressure cheating and reconfigure is indeed kind of nice to lead your opponent astray.

However, there is stuff running around that can blow up calypso in one go and your rebuild calypso doesnt get the upgrade, so i would in those cases refrain from putting more eggs into that basket

[hydranixx]

On 9/21/2022 at 2:16 PM, James Gus said:

I'm just taking the dive into EVS and I'm thinking Hidden Agenda seems interesting on Calypso.  Anyone tried this?  If you have it in the thick of things it's survivable enough that it should proc "Backup Plan" with some regularity.  Plus, with Dr Beebe inside, your opponent can't be sure if you're cheating a throw away but reconfigured low card/9 or a severe.  With Armour 2, maybe you don't care!

Thoughts?

 

Could be worth trying, but I generally find Hidden Agenda on EVS models to be a bit sketchy. Half the power is being able to Cheat Fate facedown, but I find myself discarding cards to cheat via Deep Discovery at least as often as cheating regularly, so it doesn't come up as much.

[Moinetbeard]

I'm sure it's already been noted but Flush with Cash was clutch for me last night in a game against Hamelin - Nexus had about 10 blight on her at the end and was able to tank the first bleeding disease that came her way and then bribe the second. It's worth noting that crews that do alot of small chip damage don't mind giving away stones that much because the enemy henchmen and masters can only stone to prevent a single point of damage at a time, as was the case last night. I took it on Meredith Stanley and Nexus both.