Nexus Problems, Bayou Solutions

[Maniacal_cackle]

Obey on Archivist is nuts if you can pull it off, even moreso with Ensorcel:

• Siphon power (1 irreducible damage to Archivist)
• Use We Are Legion to do one damage to any other Cadmus model (and the 1 irreducible damage on Archivist doesn't reduce)
• Then you attack for min 3 + draw a card.
• Repeat

So that's 5 damage to the enemy crew per obey (assuming they can't pass the damage back to you).

That said, I think the first obey will usually hit the Emissary, and you'll have to move the Emissary out of the way.

[santaclaws01]

11 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Obey on Archivist is nuts if you can pull it off, even moreso with Ensorcel:

• Siphon power (1 irreducible damage to Archivist)
• Use We Are Legion to do one damage to any other Cadmus model (and the 1 irreducible damage on Archivist doesn't reduce)
• Then you attack for min 3 + draw a card.
• Repeat

So that's 5 damage to the enemy crew per obey (assuming they can't pass the damage back to you).

That said, I think the first obey will usually hit the Emissary, and you'll have to move the Emissary out of the way.

Plaag didn't go for the emissary.


It's saying something that even time I look at his Nexus lists I think "Man, this is just not a good Nexus list" and then it does well anyways.

[Thatguy]

1 hour ago, santaclaws01 said:

Plaag didn't go for the emissary

You're right. I just read Effigy as Emissary. 

That makes the list way less scary.

[Adran]

4 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Obey on Archivist is nuts if you can pull it off, even moreso with Ensorcel:

• Siphon power (1 irreducible damage to Archivist)
• Use We Are Legion to do one damage to any other Cadmus model (and the 1 irreducible damage on Archivist doesn't reduce)
• Then you attack for min 3 + draw a card.
• Repeat

So that's 5 damage to the enemy crew per obey (assuming they can't pass the damage back to you).

That said, I think the first obey will usually hit the Emissary, and you'll have to move the Emissary out of the way.

This is completely right, except the ensorcel obey can't declare triggers. ( it can still add a suit with siphon power). So only 9 damage (  assuming both attacks hit and do weak). 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just now, Adran said:

This is completely right, except the ensorcel obey can't declare triggers. ( it can still add a suit with siphon power). So only 9 damage (  assuming both attacks hit and do weak). 

Oh yes good point! This actually could be very relevant if you are trying to ignore hard to kill on a model for example.

[SEV]

I l like the Syphon power + WAL trick. Still archivist is WP 6 and the cadmus player should be well aware that he's a prime obey target. He'll be kept well protect I guess (both with card and with terrain feature). 

Still with RJ/13 in hand this become a juicy play. The simple fact that the cadmus player know this might impact his game with this model...

[Thatguy]

33 minutes ago, SEV said:

Still with RJ/13 in hand this become a juicy play.

Mama Z is stat 7 though right? A 12 means they need to toss the RJ to get out of it. I think it might be worth it to throw a 10-11 to see if have a 12-13 in hand. 

[Adran]

Good luck with the game. Plaag is a good enough player to not easily let you ensorcelled obey the Archivist, so I wouldn't rely on it as a plan, but if you can manage it then you can have fun with it. Leave it as his problem to stop rather than rely on it as a tactic. 

I wouldn't underestimate any list Plaag puts on the table. This one looks to me as if he is trying to make sure he gets the web makers out to try and free up Nexus, although the emissary may well reduce that effectiveness. I also expect you will need to have a plan for dealing with that nest that is flush with cash. (My first plan would be, if its too close, charge it with the emissary, going right through it forcing the make way duel as well as the attack.  That might be enough to trigger off the Bribery on the first turn, although Dazzling Flurish is also going to not make for a happy nest if you're close enough to take that action)

 

[SEV]

@Adran: I wouldn't dare underestimating Plaag list! He clearly knows what he's doing. And just to lower the expectations: @Plaag= meticulous player with a sound strategy and nearly perfect technical play piloting a crew that he knows really well by now; me = mediocre player with a tendency for big blunders facing a Keyword for the first time... Yep, I'll need luck 😀

I'll say the odds are around 8:1 for Plaag.

But reading this thread is a good way to start. My goal is to learn and see first handed how strong Nexus is and how Mama Z can fair against them.

As soon as we have a date for the match, I'll post it here.

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Ooooo, right, you're playing round 2.

How murder-y are you? He'll have to be spending a lot of effort getting across the centreline, and anything you can do to shove him back is helpful. Killing the E&Es as they cross the centreline is good, and also destroying his web markers before the Creeper teleports is ideal (or just killing the Creeper).

Keep an eye out for opportunities to disrupt him by moving bridges for abilities (for instance, if a model is 12" away from Nexus to bridge for end of turn symbol, you can move that model and suddenly it can't bridge for Nexus to score with last activation), or by moving Creeper to not be able to teleport, etc.

Zoraida is probably going to be pretty easy to dive, so not sure about what to do there. One bright side is he can't save his high cards for end of turn diving Zoraida, as you can disrupt his hand at any time. As soon as you've activated Zoraida, that takes a lot of pressure off him.

[SEV]

As expected I've been crushed by @Plaagwith his steamroller Nexus list.

I did several mistake because I was not familiar with Cadmus and, also, because I'm just not a super tight player. 

I had a good beginning of T1, posting TFM in position to Eye in the night. So I double obey Meredith to put 2 shockwave in the middle on his crew (including her). This put dammage on is E&E. 

But than the string of mistake begin. I was to aggressive with the Emissary Steamrolling twice to put me in position to get a strategy  marker... I had a great hand at this point (11,12,13,13 if I remember correctly), so I was expecting to be able to defend him well enough... Plaag lure me with his last E&E... He cheated the Red. I cheated back a 13 just to learn that he can suffer 2 dammage to give +2 to his duel... Emissary went for a trop in the barbed wire... Injured Emissary in the middle of a nexus crew = death Emissary.

I failed to realize that I could had a clean shot on Meredith (on 4 wounds) with Rami before he put her back out of reach. 

On t2, I win init. I was going to pick my symbols with TFM just to realized that I did a positioning mistake and couldn't do in by 1/4"... than instead of reassessing my strategy (I should have go with the a Gupp to removed a web marker and make his life difficult for picking a symbol) I went for some nonsense. I obey my TFM to bring him in position to pick the symbols. He moved a husk to denied it. I switch gear with TFM going all in : leaping + pouncing strike to try to kill his dammage  est with FWC... He denied me this attack, I attack again with focus... He cheated the Red again! My plan was to charge back the husk protecting the symbols (on 1 life). TFM would have been safe (stealth + disguise + a bunch of stone)... But instead I was stock in the middle of his crew. Instead of assessing the danger, I just went berserk and use my second attack to try to kill the nest again... I failed. What I should have done here, is admitting that I had lost my gamble and disengage back to relative safety. Instead TFM in the middle of Cadmus bubble = a dead fish (even with butterfly jump).

So in 2 turns I had lost my 2 big mobile pieces and the game was pretty much over at this point. 

Lesson #1 : you have to be patient. That was my initial plan but after that first obey that went well, I put my Emissary at risk for not enough value (if it was to kill Meredith, maybe, but not to kill 2 E&E and remove a marker as I did). I should have positioned him far away, ready to snatch a marker on t2... 

Lesson #2 : E&E are real threat. They have a stat 6 lure of they want to and can bring you inside the bubble. Stealth is great to counter that (as long as you don go berserk with your Stealth models as I did).

Lesson #3 : They're super mobile for a bubble crew (with a lot of pushes). Creeper is especially dangerous if you let webs in the wrong place. 

Lesson #4 : Range pest control was not as effective as expected (LoS were bot super good on this map but still). Rami was fine, but you can't relied on him to do the job quickly. Still at 7ss I think he's ok. 

Lesson #5 : you have to play super tight (I obviously didn't). A good player like Plaag will always punish you for your mistake, but Cadmus are especially punishing (so many activation and parasite are just stupid).

Other tought:

Nexus range is just ridiculous. They don't need LoS on their relay model... That make Mama Z cry (and give her a big disadvantage in this matchup)

Z low mobility means that at some point the steamroller will get to her (even with Rami as a support). By this time your mobile peaces must have score points (instead of dying like mine).

I really like Spawn Mother as having your own summoning engine is probably a good idea in this matchup (I positioned her to far on a flank, but that's an other story). Gupp have a good shot at killing E&E and upgrading in to a Silurid.

As everybody know by now, getting a parasite is just stupidly punishing. 

Because of that, strong anvil as Juju doesn't seems good (that and Archivist ignoring demise). 

For Bayou I think Z can fare better than I did with her in the right pool (I would hire even more Stealth mobile pieces).  After playing against Cadmus, I think Zipp is probably the best pick. Maybe ophelia online (on the righ map)? 

I'll let better Bayou player than me show us the way (mine will be to jump in the salt bandwagon 😋)

[Scoffer]

56 minutes ago, SEV said:

For Bayou I think Z can fare better than I did with her in the right pool (I would hire even more Stealth mobile pieces).  After playing against Cadmus, I think Zipp is probably the best pick. Maybe ophelia online (on the righ map)? 

I'm not sure about Ophelia. Shambling Nests can be a real pain for her: sz 1 means no The Bigger They Are bonus, 8 wd with htw make them hard to take down. Nests can block Ophelia crew in deployment and give Nexus time to summon and gain control over centerpoint. 

 

[touchdown]

12 minutes ago, Scoffer said:

I'm not sure about Ophelia. Shambling Nests can be a real pain for her: sz 1 means no The Bigger They Are bonus, 8 wd with htw make them hard to take down. Nests can block Ophelia crew in deployment and give Nexus time to summon and gain control over centerpoint. 

 

I think you could take one out with your young lacroix and get the other one with Francois turn 1. That's a lot of AP just removing them and means putting upgrades on the Youngs rather than Ophelia turn 1.

[Thatguy]

@SEV

Thanks for the batrep. It was insightful.

Having your opponent draw the Red Joker both Turn 1 and 2 is going to be rough no matter what. 

1 hour ago, Scoffer said:

I'm not sure about Ophelia. Shambling Nests can be a real pain for her: sz 1 means no The Bigger They Are bonus, 8 wd with htw make them hard to take down. Nests can block Ophelia crew in deployment and give Nexus time to summon and gain control over centerpoint. 

I think Ophelia and crew could take them out, but it's going to eat like a whole Master and Henchmen Activation. 

Your Young LaCroix slapping Sammy around then hitting them with a triple Glimpse the void might the most efficient way to remove them. 

[Plaag]

3 hours ago, SEV said:

As expected I've been crushed by @Plaagwith his steamroller Nexus list.

I did several mistake because I was not familiar with Cadmus and, also, because I'm just not a super tight player. 

I had a good beginning of T1, posting TFM in position to Eye in the night. So I double obey Meredith to put 2 shockwave in the middle on his crew (including her). This put dammage on is E&E. 

But than the string of mistake begin. I was to aggressive with the Emissary Steamrolling twice to put me in position to get a strategy  marker... I had a great hand at this point (11,12,13,13 if I remember correctly), so I was expecting to be able to defend him well enough... Plaag lure me with his last E&E... He cheated the Red. I cheated back a 13 just to learn that he can suffer 2 dammage to give +2 to his duel... Emissary went for a trop in the barbed wire... Injured Emissary in the middle of a nexus crew = death Emissary.

I failed to realize that I could had a clean shot on Meredith (on 4 wounds) with Rami before he put her back out of reach. 

On t2, I win init. I was going to pick my symbols with TFM just to realized that I did a positioning mistake and couldn't do in by 1/4"... than instead of reassessing my strategy (I should have go with the a Gupp to removed a web marker and make his life difficult for picking a symbol) I went for some nonsense. I obey my TFM to bring him in position to pick the symbols. He moved a husk to denied it. I switch gear with TFM going all in : leaping + pouncing strike to try to kill his dammage  est with FWC... He denied me this attack, I attack again with focus... He cheated the Red again! My plan was to charge back the husk protecting the symbols (on 1 life). TFM would have been safe (stealth + disguise + a bunch of stone)... But instead I was stock in the middle of his crew. Instead of assessing the danger, I just went berserk and use my second attack to try to kill the nest again... I failed. What I should have done here, is admitting that I had lost my gamble and disengage back to relative safety. Instead TFM in the middle of Cadmus bubble = a dead fish (even with butterfly jump).

So in 2 turns I had lost my 2 big mobile pieces and the game was pretty much over at this point. 

Lesson #1 : you have to be patient. That was my initial plan but after that first obey that went well, I put my Emissary at risk for not enough value (if it was to kill Meredith, maybe, but not to kill 2 E&E and remove a marker as I did). I should have positioned him far away, ready to snatch a marker on t2... 

Lesson #2 : E&E are real threat. They have a stat 6 lure of they want to and can bring you inside the bubble. Stealth is great to counter that (as long as you don go berserk with your Stealth models as I did).

Lesson #3 : They're super mobile for a bubble crew (with a lot of pushes). Creeper is especially dangerous if you let webs in the wrong place. 

Lesson #4 : Range pest control was not as effective as expected (LoS were bot super good on this map but still). Rami was fine, but you can't relied on him to do the job quickly. Still at 7ss I think he's ok. 

Lesson #5 : you have to play super tight (I obviously didn't). A good player like Plaag will always punish you for your mistake, but Cadmus are especially punishing (so many activation and parasite are just stupid).

Other tought:

Nexus range is just ridiculous. They don't need LoS on their relay model... That make Mama Z cry (and give her a big disadvantage in this matchup)

Z low mobility means that at some point the steamroller will get to her (even with Rami as a support). By this time your mobile peaces must have score points (instead of dying like mine).

I really like Spawn Mother as having your own summoning engine is probably a good idea in this matchup (I positioned her to far on a flank, but that's an other story). Gupp have a good shot at killing E&E and upgrading in to a Silurid.

As everybody know by now, getting a parasite is just stupidly punishing. 

Because of that, strong anvil as Juju doesn't seems good (that and Archivist ignoring demise). 

For Bayou I think Z can fare better than I did with her in the right pool (I would hire even more Stealth mobile pieces).  After playing against Cadmus, I think Zipp is probably the best pick. Maybe ophelia online (on the righ map)? 

I'll let better Bayou player than me show us the way (mine will be to jump in the salt bandwagon 😋)

ill just take 2 cash on my key models, and will take emissary

and bokor is very unbalanced model-unlike tanuki, silent one he have built in suit, fast, obey, healing with card draw

he obiviosly need a nerf-remove magic influence and hard knock life

[Thatguy]

15 minutes ago, Plaag said:

nerf-remove magic influence and hard knock life

I think that's unnecessary. They're core parts of the Wong crew. 

Pulling Deja Vu would do a lot to balance them. 

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, Thatguy said:

I think that's unnecessary. They're core parts of the Wong crew. 

Pulling Deja Vu would do a lot to balance them. 

they are core part of every goblin master-they are versatile

[Cats Laughing]

2 minutes ago, Plaag said:

they are core part of every goblin master-they are versatile

Are you talking about Gautraeux Bokors? Because they are not versatile.

[SEV]

4 minutes ago, Plaag said:

they are core part of every goblin master-they are versatile

While I agree that Bokor find a way in most of my Bayou crew (they're 7ss versatile)... Don't let Plaag fool you : the name of this threat ain't Bayou problem 😋

 

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, Cats Laughing said:

Are you talking about Gautraeux Bokors? Because they are not versatile.

yes-for 6+1 u get a lot of healing, shielded, obey, card draw

try to find any other model with such possibilities

[Plaag]

if u need healing in faction-just remove card draw and built in obey suit-they will be fine

[Cats Laughing]

7 minutes ago, Plaag said:

yes-for 6+1 u get a lot of healing, shielded, obey, card draw

try to find any other model with such possibilities

Yeah, i get what you mean there, but the term versatile means something in game. And it's probably better not to misuse such terms and potentially confuse new players.

[Thatguy]

7 minutes ago, Plaag said:

if u need healing in faction-just remove card draw and built in obey suit-they will be fine

I don't think the obey is that big an issue. Getting glowy tokens means you're spending AP from another friendly to hit them, and wounds on the Bokor. And even once you have glowy you need a 9+ to hit the target number. 

It's a strong ability. But you're spending two AP, and at least one wound, and probably a card from your hand to do it. 

Probably more worthwhile against crews like Cadmus with lots of low WP targets that even a stat 5 has a good chance of beating.

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, Thatguy said:

I don't think the obey is that big an issue. Getting glowy tokens means you're spending AP from another friendly to hit them, and wounds on the Bokor. And even once you have glowy you need a 9+ to hit the target number. 

It's a strong ability. But you're spending two AP, and at least one wound, and probably a card from your hand to do it. 

Probably more worthwhile against crews like Cadmus with lots of low WP targets that even a stat 5 has a good chance of beating.

ulix crew have stampide, ophelia have totems, zoraida have dolls, somer have totems, and other can hire bauo gremlin to give tokens and fast to bokor

also bokor 50/50 can flip tn for healing or obey, he can heal twice to find cards and then obey(12" exchange 1ap 6ss model for 1 ap 9-10ss model or scoring staratagy)

and if u think this is not op-why not give built in de ja vu trigger on healing for silent one? will it be balanced? and if u think it will be a little op-look at bokor again

[Thatguy]

46 minutes ago, Plaag said:

ophelia have totems, zoraida have dolls, somer have totems, and other can hire bauo gremlin to give tokens and fast to bokor

Yeah and these are the crews what can make the most of bokors, and Sammy, for that matter. 

In Ulix I don't think you really want them in a position to be a useful stampede target. You could leave a piglet in the backline with them but at that point you're sitting at a 10ss investment. And bokors well probably preform pretty well at that price point but I don't think they're seriously at risk of being OP.

46 minutes ago, Plaag said:

if u think this is not op-why not give built in de ja vu trigger on healing for silent one?

The DejaVu trigger is the part that I recommended pulling.