Maogrim Posted October 15, 2020 Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 As it says in the title, basically. I stopped playing around the time the avatars came out in ME1. And while I didn't play any of them I thought some of the models were really, really cool, for example Hamelin, Avatar of Contagion, or Rasputina, Avatar of Famine. They represented a different play style for each master, similar to the different versions of Warcasters and Warlocks in that other game from the States ( ). So, what about you guys? Did you like the avatars? Do you own any? Which was your favorite? And does anyone know what was behind the reasoning behind scrapping the concept altogether? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted October 15, 2020 Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 I'm not sure how many people here still remember Avatar rules... But I do. There were a few issues with trying to play with Avatars in first edition. You had to buy a cool centerpiece model that you might not even be able to get on the table. You added in a whole side game in trying to manifest in addition to trying to score points. And for some it was totally worth it, and other it was a waste of time. In the initial M2E release I think the intention was that Avatars were going to stay (there is a section in the rules about Manifesting), but in the end it got relegated to only happening in the Shifting loyalties campaign expansion. I think there were some interviews around that time where they talked about the difficulties of making Avatars work and that lead to them being written out of the story (Zoraida used the Effigies to "absorb" the enegies from the event so the Masters could no longer manifest, and the effigies then became powered up versions of themselves called Emmisaries). In M2E the upgrade system was supposed to try and have that "different" style for your masters (particularly Limited upgrades), but again I think interviews with the designers said how that didn't seem to work as well as they intended by the time it reached the community. People tended to have decided which was the best style, and just stuck with that. Personally I liked the Avatars as an Idea. Some of the Sculpts were very good, although I didn't like them all. That probably could be used for the rules as well. I don't think that they would have worked in M2e very easily, the game got a lot tighter and the divide between "must have" and "never seen" grew a lot more as players refined how to play, and "story abilities" got a lot harder to fit onto cards. (Remember how the first edition cards were "booklets". The Avatar cards were twice the size as a normal master) I have 15 of the sculpts I think, and whilst I never used them all as avatars, several have seen use in as Emissaries (which they became legal proxies for). I think My favourite Sculpt was Sonnia, just above Justice. My least favourite Sculpt was Marcus, just above Dreamer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maogrim Posted October 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 Wow, thanks a lot for the detailled answer. Now I remember there were like ingame requirements you needed to fulfill in order to manifest ... Well, if Zoraida got rid of them they are gone for good. But I think they could be implemented as Upgrades and then starting the game already manifested. But I guess that would need excessive playtesting, annd that is maybe better spent on new models for existing crews. How come you didn't like the Dreamer's avatar? I think he was really cool and creative, compared to something like Marcus or arguably Rasputina (though I really liked that model for her)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted October 15, 2020 Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 I didn't like the sculpt particularly. It had the potential to look good, but portal technology where you only have half a model I find needs to be painted well to look good, and I don't paint well. I also didn't like chompy looking different to both the previous chompy sculpts. ( I never bought it but I'd have been tempted to use the nightmare chompy as the avatar and normal chompy as normal chompy. ) Rasputina I liked, but it may be because I liked ice construct painting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted October 15, 2020 Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 I'm certainly sad I haven't been able to find a Seamus avatar! I think it is cool that you can use them as Emissaries. Wyrd does a good job of ensuring models remain usable as much as they can. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted October 15, 2020 Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 3 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said: I'm certainly sad I haven't been able to find a Seamus avatar! I think it is cool that you can use them as Emissaries. Wyrd does a good job of ensuring models remain usable as much as they can. I might know a place you can get one, are you in the US? I absolutely loved the Avatars, though agree that manifesting them was an issue. Many had weird requirements that forced a play style counter to what you wanted to do. I still contend they could have been made to work, but that ship has sadly sailed. I own more than I care to admit to. Many of the sculpts were beautiful and they should still be legal proxies for the Faction Emissaries. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted October 15, 2020 Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, Omenbringer said: I might know a place you can get one, are you in the US? I absolutely loved the Avatars, though agree that manifesting them was an issue. Many had weird requirements that forced a play style counter to what you wanted to do. I still contend they could have been made to work, but that ship has sadly sailed. I own more than I care to admit to. Many of the sculpts were beautiful and they should still be legal proxies for the Faction Emissaries. PMed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesy Blue Posted October 15, 2020 Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 I got a couple random ones in this year's Easter sale, but I wanted a Viktoria.... it's the only sculpt im missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Git Posted November 4, 2020 Report Share Posted November 4, 2020 On 10/16/2020 at 12:31 AM, Adran said: I'm not sure how many people here still remember Avatar rules... But I do. Seriously though, Avatars were a fun addition to the game, but most of them came down to either being awesomely awesome (Ramos), or basically a paperweight (like a lot of models can be). In the end, I don't think they were commercially viable for Wyrd as they were too niche (big expensive box, that only people who play that particular master will buy) in an already niche market. In M2E, we did playtest avatars, but they didn't turn out for the mainstream rules and went to campaign rules to allow masters to ascend and we got Emissaries instead (pretty sure the Dragon was originally going to be Shenlong's avatar). What's interesting is that they said they are going to make alt-masters sometime in the future to introduce different styles of play... Not sure what the difference between these and avatars are? Maybe it's cheaper to make them now that they're plastic (trust me, the resin/metal ones were truly "fun" to build!) or the company's big enough to handle it? Or they're just keep on using the original sculpts and just have a different card (hope not as that'd be really confusing...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thatguy Posted November 4, 2020 Report Share Posted November 4, 2020 Yeah, I'm hoping that Avatars make a come back as Alt-masters. The little blurb in the rules about "titles" gives me hope. They were cool fun models, even if not well balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solkan Posted November 4, 2020 Report Share Posted November 4, 2020 6 hours ago, Da Git said: What's interesting is that they said they are going to make alt-masters sometime in the future to introduce different styles of play... Not sure what the difference between these and avatars are? Not having to jump through hoops to turn the model on? More seriously, part of the point of titles is to give people some of the alternate play styles that you could get through M2E upgrade sets, but without the combinatorics explosion and at least trying to ensure it’s balanced. That’s what they said when the idea was brought up in the beta for M3E, anyway. Whether they end up going crazy with alt-models for the titles (or even do any), I suppose we all have to wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maogrim Posted November 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2020 It would be pretty cool if they did! Although I imagine it would require a massive effort in creativity and testing if Wyrd were to come up with different versions of each master again. Oh, and on topic of actual masters, I just had to get and paint this one: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clockworkspide Posted November 5, 2020 Report Share Posted November 5, 2020 9 minutes ago, Maogrim said: It would be pretty cool if they did! Although I imagine it would require a massive effort in creativity and testing if Wyrd were to come up with different versions of each master again. Oh, and on topic of actual masters, I just had to get and paint this one: Nice work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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