In theme Synergies

[4thstringer]

So, I have been thinking about in theme synergies in Guild Here's my summary

Marshalls : LJ's pulse focus for killing, but she so often ends up out ahead it rarely matters, undead with domadors I guess?  

Witch Hunters: giving out burning helps sonnia, but she gives out a ton on her own too.  No love for witchlings can be good in the right crew.

Guard: Queeg more than daschel, since the nerfed the focus for a rapid action I rarely have the cards to spend.  

Mimic/Elite: the card draw is a big draw for his, as is the targeting through theme models. I tend to take in theme, but I know a lot of people don't.

augmented: stay in theme for success.  Also has a nice varied pool that can address a lot of different problems effectively.

Journalist: I like Nellie more with other themes than her own.

Frontier: Home on the range, though it becomes a trap if you aren't careful.  If traps were versatile, I would see no reason to run frontier tbh.

FAmily: A por el is really good for maybe a few models, and family values can be too.  But she also functions really well with non-themed models so once again its down to the tax.

So it seems like, at least for guild, more often than not you really only want about half of your crew to be in theme.  The synergies just aren't there, and half the crew being versatile or paying tax isn't too heavy a bill.

But that is just my thoughts.  What has been your experience?

[Starrius]

Since m3e dropped I've been pretty much running pure keyword crews as much as possible, not really using versatile atm either as I refuse to use the riders atm.

 

Marshall's being purely in theme is fun but it can lack a few things, it does get the job done, DMR I think work best put of keyword because of the living on making death marshals, have preferred DMR with Dashel to cause mayhem.

 

Witch hunters now thus crew I feel doesnt actually need anything out of keyword except maybe the steward for a little healing, the crew to me functions well together and a DMR with witchlings is fun to watch as opponents have to chew through the same summoned model for ages.

 

Guard, they need card draw without it they seem to be mediocre, I love the theme and it's fun to play but it's by far the most card intensity crew once been playing

 

Mimics/elites oh the fun you can have with this crew sometimes chaining obeys is actually the beat way especially when you want to obey around a corner. Agent 46 is good at what he does but I take 1 field reporter for staggered to push my investigators into action and they can serve as multiple roles because of this, overall I love this keyword.

 

Journalist atm I run 1 non journalist in the form of an investigator, this will probably change once undercover journalist comes out, but this crew has done well for me in all pools and there is something ammusing about rekoning with nellie.

 

Frontier atm due to our group I'm avoiding atm mainly because when I run him I feel a bit dirty, having him  be in range to murder a model possibly 2 first activation due to him being 13" out of my deployment is a bit horrible and my opponents arent really sure how to counter it yet, his keyword has been really good for me and so I'm comfortable to not play him

Family. Other than the effigy I keep entirely in keyword and they really get the job done, they feel efficient and are simple enough you can concentrate on getting the job done.

 

While you can certainly do a lot mixing keywords and versatile the crews themself work very well utilising their keywords that's been my experience

[Adran]

I assume you are ignoring the obvious, things Like Death Marshalls Bury models, Recruiters can attack buried models, Jury hurts buried models, and Marshals gets bonus against undead, exorcists/domadors make things count as undead

[Starrius]

10 minutes ago, Adran said:

I assume you are ignoring the obvious, things Like Death Marshalls Bury models, Recruiters can attack buried models, Jury hurts buried models, and Marshals gets bonus against undead, exorcists/domadors make things count as undead

I use it as much as possible but also found by the time DM get into melee the things I'm shooting at are dead I dont very often bury anything they arent there long enough

[Myyrä]

49 minutes ago, Adran said:

I assume you are ignoring the obvious, things Like Death Marshalls Bury models, Recruiters can attack buried models, Jury hurts buried models, and Marshals gets bonus against undead, exorcists/domadors make things count as undead

Very easy to ignore because Death Marshals don't actually bury models.

[Adran]

1 minute ago, Myyrä said:

Very easy to ignore because Death Marshals don't actually bury models.

That's just a player playstyle issue.

They are capable of doing it, if you fail to play the game in a way that lets them achieve this, then you're probably not looking for the bury synergies

[Myyrä]

1 minute ago, Adran said:

That's just a player playstyle issue.

They are capable of doing it, if you fail to play the game in a way that lets them achieve this, then you're probably not looking for the bury synergies

I just think it's easier to just hit enemies instead of burying them first and then hitting them.

[Adran]

23 minutes ago, Myyrä said:

I just think it's easier to just hit enemies instead of burying them first and then hitting them.

Next you'll tell me you prefer to make models dead, not undead....

[Starrius]

5 minutes ago, Adran said:

Next you'll tell me you prefer to make models dead, not undead....

Undead is just the transition step to full dead

[Banjulhu]

Not totally in keyword but I'm liking the combo of Jury, Necro-dancer and Pale Rider in a Lady J crew.

Pale Rider does its things.

The Necro-dancer tells the Pale Rider to do more things.

Jury tells the Necro-Dancer to tell the Pale Rider to do more things.

Lady J bounces about causing havoc because people are more worried that one of the Pale Rider's eventual things is going to be that damn pulse.

[Cronex13]

A very non meta thought I had while thinking about synergies... Hoffman traditionally is entirely in keyword, and it's very very effective. I was thinking about kinda challenging that just a tad by hiring Grimwell and Langston (who is in keyword) in the same crew. 

I've been droning on lately about how effective Langston is at burning enemy cards and soulstones. I find that playing against an opponent who can't cheat tends to be much easier. Thus, I want to crank it up to 11. Grimwell is also a pretty good hand drain, with his melee attack having a potential discard and his triggers having either a guaranteed discard or potential multiple cards out.

Grimwell having Nimble and access to stones means he can reliably get up to someone and start making those attacks w triggers. He can keep up with the fast that Hoffman hands out to the rest of his crew, and he can use stones in place of Power tokens.

What do you think?

[le_wahou]

17 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

So it seems like, at least for guild, more often than not you really only want about half of your crew to be in theme.  The synergies just aren't there, and half the crew being versatile or paying tax isn't too heavy a bill.

But that is just my thoughts.  What has been your experience?

I tend to stay in keyword/versatile most of the time. The more I play, the more I think that I am wrong. The versatiles I use are an importantt part of my teams, and a tax of 1 for a strong model due to opponent/strat/scheme is not that expensive.

[Mycellanious]

Idk, this is just theoryfaux for me, but I read a lot of the keyword that people say are weak and I see a lot of syngergies that I dont see people talk about. I read the Family cards the other day and there are a ton of synergies. Like the Totem needs a 7M to Obey, which is ludicrously high. But hes got a trigger on his mele to take Obey with +2M, so he needs any 8 to Obey the guy he hit. Plus, hes cost 2 so anyone else can A Por El him. So you have a Pisterolo give someone Adversary, the. Chain Activate into the Totem who charges and Obeys Nino (for guaranteed Family Values) or Santiago (for a higher stat). And the best part of this is that since it all happens out of Activation, as long as Abeula exists on the table everyone gets plus 1 to their duel totals. So the Totem only needs any 7 to get his Obey off and Nino is shooting from a 14" range at a 6++ or Santiago is shooting at a 7+. 

Basically, if you've stayed in Keyword using A Por El on the Totem is super good because all the actions happen out of activation, and because none of the action (except the Obey) are generated by triggers, everyone can declare triggers, so you can Obey Fransico to Onslaught. 

Simply by existing this combo also grants some significant tactial advantages. For example, it ensures your battle sides are properly formed. It makes you put your Pisterolos in the front, the Insignificant Totem in the middle, and the important models in the rear. So on turns 1 and 2 you can spend all your cards on offense while your opponent kills the Pisterolos and the Totem and keep your important models fresh in the reserve. 

In addition I dont think the Family EVER stones for cards on turns 1-3. The Totem combo requires 1 discarded card, 1 Mask of any value, and 1 7 or higher. So you can dump a lot of low cards for good value and Hero's Gamble for any Mask. This frees those stones up for other purposes, like hiring another model or to be used to prevent damage. 

[Gnomezilla]

I’m glad somebody is getting use out of that enslaved nephilim but one discard and a 7 is pretty steep cost per action.

 

I have been trying Phiona with Hoffman because I don’t like harpoon guns for repositioning, this edition. He doesn’t lack for 10ss models but she does bring three attacks per activation before fast, as well as proper stats and wound pool, on top of the repositioning I wanted. Tests are still ongoing—I haven’t had her pull models into Vent Steam yet.

Nellie has been getting the peacekeeper instead of Hoffman. The scheme pools she plays have better Trail of Gore potential and she is less likely to face armor ignoring as a matter of course.

I haven’t investigated the full range of mimicry nonsense but Agent 46 mimicking Joss’s axe is possible, and tests over in Outcasts have convinced me that doubling up on irreducible damage sources is what tips that tactic over to reliability.

[Starrius]

I have to say the family keyword I've been enjoying I ignore the obey on the nephilim I can still use the frightening presence for a push  and if I really want to do obeys you have abuela and a pro el! For extra shots. They are just very efficient 

[Cursed25]

1 hour ago, Gnomezilla said:

I’m glad somebody is getting use out of that enslaved nephilim but one discard and a 7 is pretty steep cost per action.

you forgot it also need a mask of anything to declare the totem's attack trigger!

[Ludvig]

@Gnomezilla how would you be getting power tokens onto agent 46? Are you counting on hitting the trigger on the ax for the first one? 

[Mycellanious]

2 hours ago, Cursed25 said:

you forgot it also need a mask of anything to declare the totem's attack trigger!

And whoever you hit takes 1 dmg. So its a very aggressive combo but in the right scenario its an action movie team take down that your opponent probably wasnt expecting, and probably couldnt do anything about anyway. Not to mention that Family has some decently relable card draw, and if you Obey Nino you are guaranteed the suit for it. 

[Gnomezilla]

4 hours ago, Ludvig said:

@Gnomezilla how would you be getting power tokens onto agent 46? Are you counting on hitting the trigger on the ax for the first one? 

Hoffman can hand off power tokens to non-constructs on the free action, and since he had probably been spending other actions giving fast and more tokens to other targets, a non-construct recipient will probably have enough valid donors nearby to get two tokens per Hoffman power transfer. (This is also how you get non-constructs to respond to the mechanical attendant magnet.)

[Ludvig]

Amazing! Just started 3eHoff this week and hadn't realized you could do those actions on non-constructs. 

[Starrius]

No the question is does power tokens work on non constructs as the rules for the power tokens is part of the constructs rules and a non construct doesnt have the rule to use them,

 

Even Hoffman's  card doesnt specify their use 

[Durza]

Tokens don't do anything on their own, but there are no restrictions on having them, Actions and abilities can use tokens, and if you don't have anything that uses tokens then you generally can't use them, but can still have them. Hoffmans free action Emergency power transfer only has the restriction "Choose a friendly model", so can move power tokens to non-constructs, most models can't do anything with the tokens though. Agent 46 has Mimic, which can copy actions off other models, Joss' Arc Axe has discarding a power token for irreducible damage built into the action, so if you transfer a power token to Agent 46, then copy Arc Axe, you can discard the power token to make it irreducible. 

[Ludvig]

@Starrius

Power tokens only do what your card tells you to do with them, they have no inherent effect. Joss' axe will ignore reductions if you discard a power token, that's why the axe allows you to do that when you declare an attack with it. Spiders and stuff with no rules on their card for the tokens only allow Hoff to use the tokens off them.

Edit: Ninjaed by Durza.