Gokudo

[NeilH]

What are people using as proxies for these guys?

[Cursed25]

19 minutes ago, NeilH said:

What are people using as proxies for these guys?

torakage!

[Yew Arcane]

I personally don't like proxying, so I have been patiently waiting for them to be released (besides, I'm not happy with my Yan Lo anyway, so he's been put on the bench).

[Cursed25]

2 hours ago, Yew Arcane said:

I personally don't like proxying, so I have been patiently waiting for them to be released (besides, I'm not happy with my Yan Lo anyway, so he's been put on the bench).

not happy? with rule+lore adaptation or power level? because he is one of the strongest master in TT and he's even stronger in Res!

[Yew Arcane]

3 minutes ago, Cursed25 said:

not happy? with rule+lore adaptation or power level? because he is one of the strongest master in TT and he's even stronger in Res!

My hobby skills.

[Cursed25]

14 minutes ago, Yew Arcane said:

My hobby skills.

his beard is a nightmare to glue on! xD Luckily I did a good job the first time I tried it!

[Fog]

3 hours ago, Cursed25 said:

not happy? with rule+lore adaptation or power level? because he is one of the strongest master in TT and he's even stronger in Res!

What's the reason for the power gap?

[Jude]

I do a lot of cardstock modelling of terrian and stuff. Seems like a good way to do proxies. It's hard to be confused about what it is when you use the official artwork.

[Cursed25]

13 hours ago, Fog said:

What's the reason for the power gap?

a few reasons but don't forget he is really strong in TT and I play him mostly with the Thunders because I have a lot of models for this faction!  

 

-One of the thing you really need to get a Yan Lo crew going in the first turn is your 4+  and Res has The Whisper's upgrade that help in this regard.

-Toshiro is only really useful in Res because TT Yan Lo has no corpse genreration at all

-Bone Ascendant in TT will habitually only have one good target (Izamu) while in Res you can have a lot more good undead melee beater choices when you equip the upgrade. So you have more opportunities to equip it and do something meaningful!

-Corpse shenanigans! Gravediggers are really strong! They can create corpses for Dig their Graves, for Toshiro summon and can give a lot of focused to all your crew!

-Res have lots of ways to create new low cost models (Mindless Zombies, Ashigaru) that can be used to replace your dead Ancestor. While in TT you are forced to use Gokudo and if opponent manage to kill him/them (which can be really hard with Manos reliquary) you lose your infinite machine of Ancestors.

-Versatile and some OOK models in Res and in TT are really strong so they are pretty even on this point! (Archie with Manos upgrade is a wrecking ball)

-Defensive upgrades for Res and TT are different but strong for both sides.

-I've never tried it but I've heard Yan Lo with Kirai as secondary master is disgustingly strong.

 

These are a few reasons I've come up with but I'm sure there's a lot more synergies and shenanigans available in Res, but since I only tried it a few times mostly with in keyword models I don't know all of them! Either way while playing Yan Lo in TT or Res you will have lots of fun and if played well you have all the tools to win most of your game!  He is one of my favorite master in M3e!

[Nikodemus]

I use my High River Monks. They look pretty similar to spoiled Gokudo art anyway. Shenlong is on the bench for the moment so not like they'd see table otherwise (and they sure didn't back in 2e).

[mattbird]

I probably know the answer here, but any idea when these will be released?

[Cursed25]

1 minute ago, mattbird said:

I probably know the answer here, but any idea when these will be released?

I haven't seen any info on this yet! I think they will come out with the new Yan Lo core box but sadly I have no idea when this will happen! I am really excited about the Yan Lo and Lynch new core boxes!  

[Ogid]

3 hours ago, Cursed25 said:

-Toshiro is only really useful in Res because TT Yan Lo has no corpse genreration at all

3 hours ago, Cursed25 said:

-Res have lots of ways to create new low cost models (Mindless Zombies, Ashigaru) that can be used to replace your dead Ancestor. While in TT you are forced to use Gokudo and if opponent manage to kill him/them (which can be really hard with Manos reliquary) you lose your infinite machine of Ancestors.

I agree with what you worte about TT Yan-Lo. It's much harder than in Reser and I'm not sure how viable it would be (what follows is theoryfaux, so take it with a pinch of salt), but there are ways to include more model generation than Gokudos in a TT list (but it's much expensive tho)

Including Asami (+Amanjaku). You can summon 2 Akanames in the first turn, getting 2 corpses for Toshiro thanks to their bonus action. Then you can remove 2 flicker for one of them and let the other fade away; the second turn Asami may summon a true combat Oni and let the Anakame still alive generate the third corpse for Toshiro (again letting that oni die to be able to summon something good in the third turn).

Also Asami may keep 2 ancestors in the game using 2 Onis as vessels. The weird thing about this is the ancestors will keep the summon upgrade (lol), but as they don't have the "From Beyond" ability, the flicker won't be dangerous for them. However you'll have to wait for these ancestors to die to summon more Onis. That isn't that much of a problem because Asami by herself is a decent combat model and has utility with her tendrils.

Another way to generate extra corpses is using Minako Rei + something that creates scrap markers (Again Asami with the Akanames, but also Amber Onis or the Dawn Serpent), that model may summon Katashiros using them (and also a Wanyudo if she kills something with the karmic fate upgrade); the great thing about these is they don't get a summon upgrade, so you can replace them as soon as they are used to summon a new Ancestor.

 

[Cursed25]

3 minutes ago, Ogid said:

I agree with what you worte about TT Yan-Lo. It's much harder than in Reser and I'm not sure how viable it would be (what follows is theoryfaux, so take it with a pinch of salt), but there are ways to include more model generation than Gokudos in a TT list (but it's much expensive tho)

Including Asami (+Amanjaku). You can summon 2 Akanames in the first turn, getting 2 corpses for Toshiro thanks to their bonus action. Then you can remove 2 flicker for one of them and let the other fade away; the second turn Asami may summon a true combat Oni and let the Anakame still alive generate the third corpse for Toshiro (again letting that oni die to be able to summon something good in the third turn).

Also Asami may keep 2 ancestors in the game using 2 Onis as vessels. The weird thing about this is the ancestors will keep the summon upgrade (lol), but as they don't have the "From Beyond" ability, the flicker won't be dangerous for them. However you'll have to wait for these ancestors to die to summon more Onis. That isn't that much of a problem because Asami by herself is a decent combat model and has utility with her tendrils.

Another way to generate extra corpses is using Minako Rei + something that creates scrap markers (Again Asami with the Akanames, but also Amber Onis or the Dawn Serpent), that model may summon Katashiros using them (and also a Wanyudo if she kills something with the karmic fate upgrade); the great thing about these is they don't get a summon upgrade, so you can replace them as soon as they are used to summon a new Ancestor.

 

I thought about Asami for new summon but as you said they keep the upgrade which prevent for me the point of paying lots of soulstones for her! Yes she has a nice melee attack and tendrils is a good movement ability but I think it's way less efficient than doing it with zimbies or even ashigaru form Toshiro! Minako Rei is an interesting point! I didn't thought about her but I would not take her with Asami because I need a lot of soulstones for the base of my Yan Lo crew. Do you know any cheap model that drop scrap markers with an ability in TT or maybe a cheap Last Blossom that drop shadow marker?

 

It's feasible for TT to do it but I don't think it's worth the cost! I will look into your Minako idea and search for a cheap model to fuel her summon. That could be worth it and Minako is a strong model. I've found every soulstones is important in a Yan Lo crew because you often want 2-3 Ancestors! (Manos is so good and is Reliquary is awesome!) Chiaki is also a must have. Since her rework I always took her in my crew! So it's hard to get every thing I want in my list! ahah!

 

Habitually my core looks like this in TT:

Yan Lo

Soul Porter

Chiaki 7

Manos 9

Izamu 10

 

So half of my list is almost always the same! for the rest I can add these models dependent of what I need:

-Gokudo and/or Yin if I need scheme runners

-Samurai or Shenlong+1 student if I need more punch (I tried Shenlong a few times and he is really tanky with the Manos Reliquary. Also Shenlong can do every thing you want but he is expensive!)

-Sun Quiang, Tanuki, LRM or Ashigaru if I need support of any king (heal, focused, condition removal, tanking, etc)

[Ogid]

I'm glad it gave you some ideas

Yeah, the cost is an issue, i've not played Yan-Lo, so I'm not sure how well the above would fit the crew... It would require some testing to see which ones may work well.

For shadow markers the cheapest model that can do it are the Torakages (7SS)... it'd cost them 1 action + his bonus; Ototo can also drop them... but he is much more expensive (11SS) so probably not worth it.

To drop scrap... Asami + Akanames or Obsidian Onis; Obsidian Onis are TT so they can be also hired without paying for Asami, the dawn serpent too (note that some of these requires you to attack one of your models in turn 1). The Obsidian statue could also work, but that one needs your adversary attacking it, so it's not reliable. McCabe's dog can also drop scrap, but those are a lot of points and he also want the scrap for his artifacts, so it wouldn't be very viable.

I'd start testing Chiaki, Manos, Toshiro, Asami, Totem (+6SS). You'll get 3 extra ashigarus as disposable vessels and cannon folder + the 2 summons; Toshiro commanding Jorogumos from turn 2+ might be something disgusting.

Another possible Crew could be Chiaki, Manos, Izamu, Minako, Dawn Serpent (+7SS). Attack Izamu to drop the markers and then Heal him with Juggernaugh. With this one you might get 2 Katashiros + 1 Wanyudo.

And the third option Toshiro, Izamu, Minako, Asami (+7SS). I have serious doubts about this one because set up all of that requires a lot of time plus the right cards, and skipping Chiaki you also miss the buffs; but you could potentially get the 3 Asigarus + 2 Katashiros +  Wanyudo + 2 Summoned Onis... which may be quite overwhelming to the other player to deal with while Yan-Lo is scaling turn after turn.

If you try some of these, let us know how it goes!

[Ogid]

40 minutes ago, Ogid said:

And the third option Toshiro, Izamu, Minako, Asami (+7SS). I have serious doubts about this one because set up all of that requires a lot of time plus the right cards, and skipping Chiaki you also miss the buffs; but you could potentially get the 3 Asigarus + 2 Katashiros +  Wanyudo + 2 Summoned Onis... which may be quite overwhelming to the other player to deal with while Yan-Lo is scaling turn after turn.

Giving it a second thought... I don't think that one is very good; Yan-Lo would be too vulnerable without any Reliquary to shatter... Chiaki needs to be in the crew.

Toshiro, Chiaki, Minako, Asami, Totem (+7SS). That one would work better, it still requires a ton of set up; but with a wall of summons and 1 reliquary Yan-Lo shoud be safe enough I guess (not including Manos' reliquary hurts tho, that one is nuts)... In this case the Oni will attack the Akaname to get the scrap tokens in turn 2 (killing it in the process).

[Cursed25]

2 hours ago, Ogid said:

I'm glad it gave you some ideas

Yeah, the cost is an issue, i've not played Yan-Lo, so I'm not sure how well the above would fit the crew... It would require some testing to see which ones may work well.

For shadow markers the cheapest model that can do it are the Torakages (7SS)... it'd cost them 1 action + his bonus; Ototo can also drop them... but he is much more expensive (11SS) so probably not worth it.

To drop scrap... Asami + Akanames or Obsidian Onis; Obsidian Onis are TT so they can be also hired without paying for Asami, the dawn serpent too (note that some of these requires you to attack one of your models in turn 1). The Obsidian statue could also work, but that one needs your adversary attacking it, so it's not reliable. McCabe's dog can also drop scrap, but those are a lot of points and he also want the scrap for his artifacts, so it wouldn't be very viable.

I'd start testing Chiaki, Manos, Toshiro, Asami, Totem (+6SS). You'll get 3 extra ashigarus as disposable vessels and cannon folder + the 2 summons; Toshiro commanding Jorogumos from turn 2+ might be something disgusting.

Another possible Crew could be Chiaki, Manos, Izamu, Minako, Dawn Serpent (+7SS). Attack Izamu to drop the markers and then Heal him with Juggernaugh. With this one you might get 2 Katashiros + 1 Wanyudo.

And the third option Toshiro, Izamu, Minako, Asami (+7SS). I have serious doubts about this one because set up all of that requires a lot of time plus the right cards, and skipping Chiaki you also miss the buffs; but you could potentially get the 3 Asigarus + 2 Katashiros +  Wanyudo + 2 Summoned Onis... which may be quite overwhelming to the other player to deal with while Yan-Lo is scaling turn after turn.

If you try some of these, let us know how it goes!

I will have to try the Akaname summon to see if it's worth it with Toshiro! I'm not sure about it because you have to pay 16ss, use a 8+ or 12 of Mask (or any other 8+/12 and 1ss) for 1 or 2 Akaname, than create 1-2 corpse markers and finally for Toshiro to try to summon an Ashigaru with a 10+ crow or use another high card with a soulstone! There's a lot of hoops to jump and every one of those hoops needs a test which can be failed and put holes in the strategy! You've shown me the only way to summon reliably with Toshiro in TT and I'm glad you did!  never looked at the Akaname before today! ahah! But sadly I don't think it's worth it only for 2-3 Ashigaru in a game! Also masks are very important in the first turn for split the souls, so with only 1 mask in hand or none this whole strat costs 1 more ss to do!

 

Dawn Serpent does not have the built in trigger for the scrap drop and cost more than the Obsidian Oni, so really unreliable! Cheapest way to get Minako Summons is Torakage as you said and they are good scheme runners for turn 3+. I will try Minako and a torakage for 15ss, it gives 2 extra summons (worth 5ss each) and possibly a Wanyudo which can be really fun with Yan Lo's Ash upgrade and Treacherous path ability

 

Also I'm not sure I would take Amanjaku with Asami as a second master! I know he's cheap but the only thing he brings until Asami dies is a way to remove flicker which is good but with so few Oni and Asami doing the same thing I think it's better to save a few soulstones! One really nice strategy to do with second master Asami is a suicide bomb Obsidian Oni! it fits well with her limited summoning, can do a lot of dmg and you don,t need to waste actions removing their flickers!

[Cursed25]

2 hours ago, Ogid said:

Giving it a second thought... I don't think that one is very good; Yan-Lo would be too vulnerable without any Reliquary to shatter... Chiaki needs to be in the crew.

Toshiro, Chiaki, Minako, Asami, Totem (+7SS). That one would work better, it still requires a ton of set up; but with a wall of summons and 1 reliquary Yan-Lo shoud be safe enough I guess (not including Manos' reliquary hurts tho, that one is nuts)... In this case the Oni will attack the Akaname to get the scrap tokens in turn 2 (killing it in the process).

for a super summoning list with Yan Lo in TT I would try something like that: 

Yan Lo

3ss cache

Soul Porter

Chiaki 7

Minako Rei 8

Toshiro 9

Asami 16

Torakage 7

 

I don't think it's really competitive, but it could be really fun to try it! If everything goes well, after turn 1 I have summoned 1 Katashiro, 1-2 Akaname (use Asami's 1-2 Mother's love to prevent them dying turn 1) and 1 Ashigaru (total worth 14-18ss). Turn 2 at least another Ashigaru and Katashiro. After letting your akaname die because of flicker, you can summon something else with Asami or move to a better spot to summon something later (Obsidian bomb). So if I had the right cards in hand in 2 turns I summoned 28ss of models and it costed me 40ss to do so. After that Asami can summon more stuff, but she will take a lot of your high cards to do so and thus weaken your hand every turn! Also this perfect scenario needs a 12+ mask, two 10+ crow and two 10+ Tomes which is a lot of high cards in 2 turns and this is the main reason why I don't think it's worth it and competitive!

[Ogid]

3 hours ago, Cursed25 said:

I will have to try the Akaname summon to see if it's worth it with Toshiro! I'm not sure about it because you have to pay 16ss, use a 8+ or 12 of Mask (or any other 8+/12 and 1ss) for 1 or 2 Akaname, than create 1-2 corpse markers and finally for Toshiro to try to summon an Ashigaru with a 10+ crow or use another high card with a soulstone! There's a lot of hoops to jump and every one of those hoops needs a test which can be failed and put holes in the strategy! You've shown me the only way to summon reliably with Toshiro in TT and I'm glad you did!  never looked at the Akaname before today! ahah! But sadly I don't think it's worth it only for 2-3 Ashigaru in a game! Also masks are very important in the first turn for split the souls, so with only 1 mask in hand or none this whole strat costs 1 more ss to do!

 Glad it helps! Yep that strat has a lot of hoops to jump with, that's the reason I try to leave at least 6 or 7 SS, to have some room to redraw and get the triggers it needs to work; paying SS and high cards sucks, but getting free models is very good so it's kind of fair.

If i'm not mistaken the Anakames are the only way in TT to generate corpses, and without having YL as the leader you cannot hire Toshiro. So this double master is the only way to use his summoning capabilities from turn 1. And Toshiro in a summoning heavy list seems nuts thanks to his Aura (Probably it won't be a good idea using both in the same attack, but with Flicker, Focus and Leadership imagine a Jorogumo with  to the duel and  to damage XDD)

My idea of the list is first turn summoning 2 anakames with a 12 (stoning if needed), but with 1 it'd also works; Amanjaku remove 2 flicker from 1 of them. Both will use his ability to generate the corpses (one of them ahead, where Toshiro will be the second turn), one of them will die from the flicker and the second one will be at 2 flickers at the end of the turn. Then Toshiro may use one of these corpses to summon 1 Ashigaru and position near of the second corpse. In the second turn the alive Anakame will generate a third corpse and Asami will summon a true combat oni (Obsidian or Jorogumo if you are lucky enought to get a 13).

In the third iteration of the list (the one with Asami+Minako) the summon of the second turn will be an obsidian because you will need it to generate the scrap for Minako (that one will attack the Anakame to generating it), then Minako may summon both Katashiros in turn 2... wait... it could be a better way, the 2 Anakames could be used to get 1 scrap and 1 corpse in turn 1... yeah, that's better; that way they can do it again in the turn 2, let 1 die for the flicker and then summon a combat oni which could be a Jorogumo...

That is super hand intensive, but as Yan-Lo you won't want to engage in turn 1 anyway.

3 hours ago, Cursed25 said:

Dawn Serpent does not have the built in trigger for the scrap drop and cost more than the Obsidian Oni, so really unreliable! Cheapest way to get Minako Summons is Torakage as you said and they are good scheme runners for turn 3+. I will try Minako and a torakage for 15ss, it gives 2 extra summons (worth 5ss each) and possibly a Wanyudo which can be really fun with Yan Lo's Ash upgrade and Treacherous path ability

That's a very fair point... using the serpent taxes the hand more than the Torakage, but it has the advantage of giving you 2 scrap in turn 1; which is super good because Minako can use both the first turn to summon 2 Katashiros (her summoning doesn't have the "once per turn"). I guess that both ways will worth a try, the torakages are good scheme runners, but so is the serpent.

Haha, it's true, the treacherous path goes very well with him!

3 hours ago, Cursed25 said:

Also I'm not sure I would take Amanjaku with Asami as a second master! I know he's cheap but the only thing he brings until Asami dies is a way to remove flicker which is good but with so few Oni and Asami doing the same thing I think it's better to save a few soulstones! One really nice strategy to do with second master Asami is a suicide bomb Obsidian Oni! it fits well with her limited summoning, can do a lot of dmg and you don,t need to waste actions removing their flickers!

I like him a lot, for 3 SS he is a total bargain; the flicker for onis is like focused, and you will need to keep doing it with your summoned models because the summon upgrade give them flicker. That let you use Asami more agressively (or using flicker offensively with the onis); and his other stats and abilities are also quite good. Plus if Asami dies, the upgrade is nuts and your Onis won't die for the flicker because he can keep supporting them.

Another option would be a Terracota for only 1 SS more, he can mimic "a mother's love" and later into the game he can be replaced for an oni without the summon upgrade (an obsidian or a Jorogumo... or even Chiaki, that would be a way to have her and her reliquary in the game at the same time)... but I would pick Amanjaku for this kind of list hands down.

2 hours ago, Cursed25 said:

for a super summoning list with Yan Lo in TT I would try something like that: 

(...)

I like more the other version... 3 SS for a summon heavy list seems very very low and with the 2 Anakames you can generate 1 corpse and 1 scrap the first turn so the Torakage won't be needed for the Minako+Asami version; with only 3 SS you will need to get just the right cards and suits to pull off all Toshiro and Asami summons...

IDK... give it a whril! As I said before, this is all theoryfaux; check some of these list in some games with friends and tell us how it goes!

2 hours ago, Cursed25 said:

but she will take a lot of your high cards to do so and thus weaken your hand every turn! Also this perfect scenario needs a 12+ mask, two 10+ crow and two 10+ Tomes which is a lot of high cards in 2 turns and this is the main reason why I don't think it's worth it and competitive!

These heavy summon strategies are very hand taxing, that's true; but Flicker and Leadership are super efficient and Minako and Chiaki give some minor draw. Every minion flip will be at thanks to the aura and you can easily get  to the duel and  to damage in every oni attack with all the focus and the flicker removing that both Toshiro and Asami/Amanjaku are giving. Even using most of the high cards for the summoning, you won't need to use the hand that much in combat (and with all the to damage, the other player will probably use part of his hand defensively). That's why I think it might work if the schemes/strategies are good for that kind of playstyle... and meanwhile Yan-Lo is becoming a monster turn after turn.

But the cheaper onis are also useful, versus enemies with a low Df leaving 1 summoning spot open to summon 1 cheap disposable oni each turn with Asami (Katashiro, Tengu or Yokai) and sacrifice it using flicker with each attack could be a nice idea. These 3 have the Unnatural speed trigger, that trigger won't be hard to get having  to the duel thanks to the aura and the flicker (Yokai deals the best damage, Katashiro may attack 3 times per turn and Tengu has a Mutilate trigger; so in the best conditions they could do from 4 to 6 attacks). Yokais could also do some extreme suicide scheme runs if needed (in the best conditions, he could cover 16'' and interact the same turn... but he will die after it)

It sounds fun to try! This could be a sleeper... or a very stupid idea

[Cursed25]

5 minutes ago, Ogid said:

Yokais could also do some extreme suicide scheme runs if needed (in the best conditions, he could cover 16'' and interact the same turn... but he will die after it)

It sounds fun to try! This could be a sleeper... or a very stupid idea

summoned models can't do interact action the turn they are summoned! but they are very good scheme runners nonetheless, you just need to keep them alive for one turn by reducing their flicker!

[sakurazuka38]

On 9/24/2019 at 3:10 PM, Nikodemus said:

I use my High River Monks. They look pretty similar to spoiled Gokudo art anyway. Shenlong is on the bench for the moment so not like they'd see table otherwise (and they sure didn't back in 2e).

There is 99% chance that the new Yan Lo starter box will have gokudo. 
 

I have a spare box of high river monk still in their box...what would be a good solution to do a definitive conversion into Gokudo (since I don’t plan to buy the new starter with doubles) ?

[Nikodemus]

8 minutes ago, sakurazuka38 said:

I have a spare box of high river monk still in their box...what would be a good solution to do a definitive conversion into Gokudo (since I don’t plan to buy the new starter with doubles) ?

I'd say they're pretty similar already. Biggest visual difference to me seems to be their heads. Gokudo have hoods and no mask. So an appropriate headswap or sculpting some hoods would IMO do the job. If you have some shuriken-esque bits to go around maybe add those in too to further differentiate from stock High River model if you feel it's warranted.

edit:

Are you aware of the special order program? You can probably get Gokudo by themselves via that, when they eventually do come out.

https://www.wyrd-games.net/special-orders

[sakurazuka38]

1 minute ago, Nikodemus said:

I'd say they're pretty similar already. Biggest visual difference to me seems to be their heads. Gokudo have hoods and no mask. So an appropriate headswap or sculpting some hoods would IMO do the job. If you have some shuriken-esque bits to go around maybe add those in too to further differentiate from stock High River model if you feel it's warranted.

edit:

Are you aware of the special order program? You can probably get Gokudo by themselves via that, when they eventually do come out.

Thank you ! I will go for hood (and maybe alternate head).

I will check but I’m afraid that shipping fees for France are a bit expensive!

[Adran]

On ‎11‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 3:56 PM, sakurazuka38 said:

I will check but I’m afraid that shipping fees for France are a bit expensive!

The special order program is intended to also be avalible through your local gaming shop as a special order as well. In which case the shipping and customs charges ought to be dealt with with the main distributers order, rather than just on your order. (I don't know, but I am hoping its like this, will be trying it soon).

[bedjy]

41 minutes ago, Adran said:

The special order program is intended to also be avalible through your local gaming shop as a special order as well. In which case the shipping and customs charges ought to be dealt with with the main distributers order, rather than just on your order. (I don't know, but I am hoping its like this, will be trying it soon).

Due to the lack of distribution in France and French version (atm for this one) , we have almost 0 LGS in the whole country...