Youku Advice

[Cursed25]

18 minutes ago, Ogid said:

Ty for the insight ,

I overlooked him. Tannen also looks quite good with her: Betrayal, rig the deck+2 and manipulative would work well with Youko; Boring Conversation would be amazing in enemies engaged by Geishas/Kabukis (but he would have to give up manipulative to activate early, so it might backfire), decent attack, long range distracted... yeah he looks legit.

It's true... Chiaki's ability is a pulse not an aura; so she would be out of range... It's still a decent OOK versus crews who will use states on themselves, stat 7 and slow is quite good, even without the relicary.

Thinking about it... Sun Quiang also looks legit, df 7 and wp 6 (lol), a pseudo buterfly jump to save allies that also heal, a healing aura, distracted or focused with 3 amazing triggers, healing, study... wow. More expensive than a tanuki or a Low river but seems to worth it.

I found Sun Quiang good in a Yan Lo crew but with another leader I would only take him against very aggressive alpha striking crew (Nekima or Viks). Because most of the time a Tanuki or a LRM will do mostly the same job for cheaper!

[Ogid]

2 hours ago, Cursed25 said:

I found Sun Quiang good in a Yan Lo crew but with another leader I would only take him against very aggressive alpha striking crew (Nekima or Viks). Because most of the time a Tanuki or a LRM will do mostly the same job for cheaper!

I'm not very into Yan Lo, I'm surprised with the stats of this enforcer...

It's true a Tanuki or a LRM would cover as good as him or better the buff/healing role; but just as an Distracted dispenser he is quite good (and all 3 Duality, Quick Reflexes and Hole in the World triggers are useful), on top of all the other utility and versatility he brings. Also a df7 guy with all the hand harass in a Youko crew may be quite hard to beat. Versus a alpha striker he will be a very good hire, but I think he could be quite useful even if the other guys aren't that agressive.

[Jesy Blue]

19 hours ago, Ogid said:

I overlooked him. Tannen also looks quite good with her: Betrayal, rig the deck+2 and manipulative would work well with Youko; Boring Conversation would be amazing in enemies engaged by Geishas/Kabukis (but he would have to give up manipulative to activate early, so it might backfire), decent attack, long range distracted... yeah he looks legit.

So call me paranoid, but I put trained ninja on Youko & Tannen to prevent alpha striking them; they're just too important as I learn them still.

[frumpypigskin]

@Jesy Blue apparently you're so paranoid you said it 3 times. 🤔😉

[Adran]

Modhat 

Nothing to see here. We aren't out to get Jesey blue and delete all his duplicate posts....😗

[bedjy]

Sun Quiang seems quite golden. You can't do a better use of duality trigger than targeting a model with Wp and close enough to Youko ! I'll give it a try tonight. Anyway, that's quite some games I'm taking him most of the time with me, rather than any other heal. He's make the break for me. It also makes a model like Mr. Tannen so much more difficult to get down.

Don't forget that h2k models can't be killed while close to Sun Quiang while you have at least a card in hand  

 

[Ogid]

9 hours ago, bedjy said:

Sun Quiang seems quite golden. You can't do a better use of duality trigger than targeting a model with Wp and close enough to Youko ! I'll give it a try tonight. Anyway, that's quite some games I'm taking him most of the time with me, rather than any other heal. He's make the break for me. It also makes a model like Mr. Tannen so much more difficult to get down.

Don't forget that h2k models can't be killed while close to Sun Quiang while you have at least a card in hand  

Hehe, pretty much this. It looks quite annoying with Youko's crew if a high ammount of models with Distraction are included. The Duality trigger is very good, but any of the others is great: Quick Reflexes double the Distracted handled out, Hole in the world is like a Lure but more powerful and can put that model in b2b with a dangerous beater/in range of Youko to do all her shenanigans; the adversary trigger is the worst, but if it happens in the first action, at least you'll get a positive flip in the second attack.

And he can heal without using actions and has a "free" asist action, which is always welcome. And any model may gain "Hard to wound" thanks to the upgrade "Silent Protector".

[zavros]

Youko's main defenses against aggressive crews are hand control and positioning.

Generally hinamatsu and bill can tank/pressure the bigger models but your smaller models have to rely on disguised and activation order to not just die. 

If your generating pass tokens, you can wait out your opponent's activations where your not already engaged. If your opponent hasn't scored yet, you activate youko early to attack their hand with shady dealings, hand out distracted, and generate pass tokens. 

Geisha can survive most single activations as  long as the enemy model isn't focused since they can't charge you, giving you the opportunity to effectively auto slow them and disengage making it awkward for your opponent to do anything.  I think up to 2 geisha is fine, but more than that makes your list really soft.

Kunoichi can pull models out of melee and work well with other disguised models. They are even useful with bill and kabuki warriors who have a 2" reach, a slight reposition with them will force your opponent to walk at you if they want to hit you. I find one kunoichi to be useful but more than 1 is not great.

Speaking of 2" reach, bill and kabuki warriors are great at fighting most melee models. Bill can easily maneuver people around and keep multiple models engaged.  Kabuki warriors will rarely get hit in melee. Kabuki warriors are probably what you want against aggressive factions most of the time.

Bunraku are just great in general, they can both fight and scheme efficiently.

You will definitely have problems with aggressive ranged crews, especially spellcasters. You will have to take things like samurai against ranged crews just to fight on even footing. I think youko's worst matchup is probably titania, they have lots of concealment, spells that attack defense instead of wip, and all the severe terrain makes positioning awkward for you.

[bedjy]

On 9/7/2019 at 1:21 PM, Jesy Blue said:

So call me paranoid, but I put trained ninja on Youko & Tannen to prevent alpha striking them; they're just too important as I learn them still.

Or you can take Sun Quiang and not be worried about alpha anymore
It will be very hard for your opponent to kill a model in SQ's bubble.

[bedjy]

yesterday night I played a game with Youko against Nelly. 

Scheme pool was : 

Corrupted Idols / Wedge

Vendetta
Detonate Charge (me and my opponent)
Take Prisonner
Hold Up Their Forces
Search the ruins

My crew : 

Size: 50 - Pool: 4
Youko Hamasaki
Chiyo Hamasaki
Hinamatsu Masked Agent
Kabuki Warrior Silent Protector
Sun Quiang
Mr. Tannen
Bunraku
Geisha

Tannen and Youko are there to mess up with my opponent.
Sun Quiang and Kabuki Warrior will protect my other models and distract/Wp aura.
Bunraku is the mobile asset, to go alone.
Hinamatsu was there to deal with Nellie, bringing the Kabuki warrior with him when declaring the charge action (after a move , so that Nellie would fall into the Distraction aura).

Moving hinamatsu so that he remains with 3" of the Kabuki, then Charge with rush for 8" + 1 range means your kabuki can be 15"/16" further with still 2 attacks from Hinamatsu, thanks to flurry and 2 from the kabuki with its great sword, that's pretty scary.

[Takoa]

Ok, so from the sound of it, I need to pick up Samurai, and Sun Quiang. I already have Mr Tannen, and was already planning on Kabuki Warriors (no idea when they will be released, and have to wait until October for the faction book). Once my Bunraku come in, I'll have all currently released Qi and Gong models, though it is a little sad that there seem to be more OOK models that fit the crew better than their existing keyword.

[Yew Arcane]

1 hour ago, Takoa said:

 it is a little sad that there seem to be more OOK models that fit the crew better than their existing keyword.

It's not that versatile and ook models fit better, more that they cover some weaknesses of the keyword, which is true for pretty much every keyword.

[mattbird]

1 hour ago, Yew Arcane said:

they cover some weaknesses of the keyword, which is true for pretty much every keyword.

I tend to disagree, as apart from a Low River Monk, I've been exclusively running only in-keyword models to this point, with 4 different masters. 

[Ogid]

2 hours ago, Takoa said:

Ok, so from the sound of it, I need to pick up Samurai, and Sun Quiang. I already have Mr Tannen, and was already planning on Kabuki Warriors (no idea when they will be released, and have to wait until October for the faction book). Once my Bunraku come in, I'll have all currently released Qi and Gong models, though it is a little sad that there seem to be more OOK models that fit the crew better than their existing keyword.

Being able to go OOK to tailor the crew for the match is something good; it make you less predictable and good versus more enemy crews.

This comes from someone who like summoning and try to fit them into any crew, so take it with a grain of salt:  What about the summoners of TT as a surprise strat for some games?

• Asami + Amanjaku (19 SS) is quite expensive, but Asami is tough for the summoner standards; with df6 and an attack with a damage track of 2/4/6 she can stand her ground. She has Arcane Reservoir that fits nicely the theme (hand of 7 versus a hand of 5), a very useful push and can bring Jorogumos or Obsidian Onis as beaters and meatshields while providing them all the support they need. Amanjaku for 3 SS will support the onis quite well and If Asami is killed, it becomes a monster with the Asami's soul upgrade.
• Minako Rei (8 SS), with this one you will need to include someone who create scrap or shadow markers (Ototo, Torakage, Obsidian oni...). Not 100% sure about this one, but 2 free Katashiros may be quite good, she rips anything with the Karmic Fate upgrade; and the Karmic Fate upgrade needs the enemy to discard cards to discard it, which also go well with the theme of hand harass.

[Yew Arcane]

1 hour ago, mattbird said:

I tend to disagree, as apart from a Low River Monk, I've been exclusively running only in-keyword models to this point, with 4 different masters. 

Not using something and it not filling potential gaps are not the same thing.

[Jesy Blue]

1 hour ago, Ogid said:

• Asami + Amanjaku (19 SS) is quite expensive, but Asami is tough for the summoner standards; with df6 and an attack with a damage track of 2/4/6 she can stand her ground. She has Arcane Reservoir that fits nicely the theme (hand of 7 versus a hand of 5), a very useful push and can bring Jorogumos or Obsidian Onis as beaters and meatshields while providing them all the support they need. Amanjaku for 3 SS will support the onis quite well and If Asami is killed, it becomes a monster with the Asami's soul upgrade.

The Arcane Reservoir/Unseen Manipulator combo is SOOOOOOOOOOO GOOD!

When I do this (and I don't always take Amanjaku), and it works really well but I need either a pile of soul stones or a really good starting hand; if I don't have a starting hand to get a Jorogumo out first turn, I will change my whole tactic in summoning.

.... and that's the best part: Asami is so (lower case) versatile that she's good for everyone!

[Yew Arcane]

1 hour ago, Jesy Blue said:

The Arcane Reservoir/Unseen Manipulator combo is SOOOOOOOOOOO GOOD!

When I do this (and I don't always take Amanjaku), and it works really well but I need either a pile of soul stones or a really good starting hand; if I don't have a starting hand to get a Jorogumo out first turn, I will change my whole tactic in summoning.

.... and that's the best part: Asami is so (lower case) versatile that she's good for everyone!

For Arcane Reservoir, would taking Misaki and Shang also be beneficial, or is Asami/Amanjaku better due to the summoning?

[zavros]

I've played asami with youko. You usually don't need amanjaku, he doesn't have a whole lot to do compared to in keyword.  Asami is just always a great hire since she's a self contained package.

Haven't tried misaki + shang in youko, just seems so expensive. Will definitely put it on the table at some point just to get a feel of how impactful that is.

[Jesy Blue]

3 hours ago, Yew Arcane said:

For Arcane Reservoir, would taking Misaki and Shang also be beneficial, or is Asami/Amanjaku better due to the summoning?

The problem with added on Misaki is there are so few ways to add Shadow Markers, which is really the point of her... or really the only point of Shang is for the Arcane Reservoir.  I'd rather have the available options Asami gives with optional totem then get less with Misaki and have to buy the totem to rate.

[Ogid]

On 9/13/2019 at 2:24 AM, Yew Arcane said:

For Arcane Reservoir, would taking Misaki and Shang also be beneficial, or is Asami/Amanjaku better due to the summoning?

Asami + totem or not seems a better option (I'd pick the totem tho, for 3 SS that model is a steal!), the onis are very very powerful and she cover their weaknesses pretty well, while also being a decent beater and having utility in his kit (that 6'' inches push seems like gold, and mother's love is very efficient).

For example, Jorogumo with the Focused+1 she gives him plus a Flicker could have a  to both duel AND damage, with a damage track of 3/4/6... on top of extended reach and 2'', if you are lucky you can bring 2 of these, they even have a bonus ability that deny healing and may shield them...

The obsidian isn't that good beater, but still pretty decent (2/3/4 range 1, stat 6 and with critical strike and blaze triggers). He has some tricks under his sleeve tho; you may throw him forward (charge and/or tendrils), try to engage 2 enemy models and activate his aura. If the other player expend actions killing your disposable summon with armor 1 they will get the aura burning + the demise burning; if they waste actions dissengaging and ignoring him them they will burn and waste AP anyway and you could charge with him and do it again the next turn (or go straight for a backliner). Win-Win.

And Amanjaku, while not 100% necessary, is very cost/effective. He may remove flicker from the onis (which is simmilar to give them a Focus), has manipulative (which is very good in a crew with extra pass tokens), so a very nice support just for 3 SS. And if Asami is killed, then with Asami's Souls he becomes very very hard to kill: If they attack him his defensive stats would be: df 5 (even with a posible) with Manipulative, 3 damage reduction that may reduce the damage to 0 (plus he gain attuned, so he might use SS on top of those 3 damage reduction)... On the offensive his damage track becomes 3/4/6 (only stat 5 tho) with a built in "Unnatural Speed" trigger (Onslaught that gives a flicker, which he may use for damage reduction anyway) and with critical strike (so it may go up to 5/6/8 if needed)... I'm sold for 2+1 SS.

Another possible good support for this strat is one terracota, he may copy A mother's love (so -flicker +Focused) and if you save a 13 or RJ in your hand, you can mold it into a Jorogumo when it gets killed (and that Jorogumo would come back without a summon upgrade, so you could even summon a third one!), or (if you cannot get that card) you can always use it to bring back other models like a kunoichi, a Kabuki, an obsidian or even Amanjaku if Asami is about to be killed and he was killed first, the key to play the terracota is keeping an eye for high mask cards and saving them.

With Asami Youko get a very strong frontline and ablative wounds, something his crew lacks; Asami and her onis will get a lot out of all the control and hand harass of Youko, getting the upper hand in straight combat on top of the focus+flicker mechanic, plus getting access to the high cards they need to summon the more powerful onis.

Getting the models to play this is a commitment tho: 3 boxes (core, Jorogumos and Obsidian+Ama). But if you also like the Oni keyword, It's not a bad investment (I love summoners and control masters, so I'd pick it hands down; but you know, different folks for different playstiles, pick things that fits you). For example, when I get the models, I'll play the NVB version of this strat with Pandora (control master) and the Dreamer (second master summoner), but The Dreamer will be my main master. This version with Youko/Asami looks really scary tho, the Dreamer doesn't have 9 SS summons that may hit you with the equivalent of double focused (which you can't normally do btw) lol, nor can just jump in your face and kill you like Asami can (well, at least he is cheaper XD).

 

Misaki seems to have some synergies with Youko's crew, they gain a lot lof pass tokens, which synergize quite well with her (less models activated, more Mv after unbury), however the package Misaki+Fox is very expensive. Shang isn't a bad model, it gives arcane reservoir, a mobile unbury point for Misaki and a heal (worse than a low river tho), but it is very squishy and hiring him cost 5 SS. The problem is Misaki will want to be buried and shang will need to hide, but Youko's crew will probably need those 21 points in the table to not being demolished...

Another better choice imo: Misaki + Minako; first turn bury Misaki and place the 2 shadow markers near of Minako, she uses both shadow markers to create 2 Katashiros, unbury Misaki in the deployment zone and continue playing. With those you have paid 24 SS, have 18 points over the table and 16 points who may remain buried (or not, she has extended reach and may protect other models), you'll miss shang but it'd probably be a more safe crew. If you bury Misaki, you'll need a safe placement for those markers (placing them in a way that no model could reach and remove them in 1 activation) and around where your crew is, so if they try to attack Youko's crew, she may unbury and punish.

She has some potential, even if she can't charge, his lightning strike may deal in the ideal conditions 6 damage during 1 turn in area (you'd probably need to spend cards/stones tho); the oyabun command is also useful to reposition your models while doing some damage, and can add some extra control with his stun. And If needed she may use her shadow markers to spinball hard when needed to chase some model... she won't be omnipresent like she is in her own crew, but the mobility is still there.

This doesn't seem like a top noch combo, but it will probably work in the right scenario.

[oryxwild]

Hey there! the path of soft control/less violent victory is a bit hard at first, but well worth the effort. 

 

As far as shooting goes: check out some versatile/ook stuff. You can bring the emissary for a cheap concealment aura (cover from bill, concealment from emissary is a pretty nice bunker vs ranged, and double negs vs youko makes her pretty hard to shoot). You can also try bringing a komainu; for 7 stones you get a lot of what the samurai does for 11 with silent protector and a very reasonable model in the deal. Also consider sun quiang, who brings a large amount of healing + bedside manner, which is a fantastic way to ruin the dreams of a melee beater who just charged. 

I think there are basically two ways of responding to an aggressive alpha, generally. The first is to stay very close to your deployment (maybe 1 move out of it) and use your second action to focus, buff, etc etc. If they're willing to go all the way across the table, you'll have an insurmountable advantage (you do need to bring and deploy your crew with a plan to punish the alpha, but youko can do that). If they're not, then you're both prepared for turn 2 (most models with focused, in proper position) and they have less time to kill you before they need to start scoring. 

The other way is to spread out around the map and use terrain to hide. You'll still get alpha'd, but if you do it correctly and your crew is built correctly, they won't have enough movement to efficiently take out your whole crew before you score. This approach is especially strong in some pools in tournaments because games often end mid-game, and so scoring early is very important. I play Seamus this way often; I'm not sure how easy it is with youko, because not everyone has a 12" place on their master. YMMV. 

I second whoever counseled you to use pass tokens to pass. You have to think of youko like a surgeon - you're not going to kill their whole crew, so you have to make each attack action count. Use your pass tokens to force them to commit to plays, and then when they're in deep, choose one model and scalpel it out. Sure, + flips are sometimes exactly what you need, but if you're cheating to ensure you kill a key piece anyway, then activation control is more important. 

Consider taking tannen with Trained Ninja. Tannen and Youko are a very powerful combo, and will really punish your opponent for trying to break your bubble. I'm eventually going to try a crew with youko, tannen, and gwenyth maddox for a 6" (you may not cheat) bubble of awesomeness. 

bring some damage, bring healing, bring some stones. The great thing about control masters is that they're generally only threatened by a few things - if you survive the crucial turn on 1 wound, you might as well have survived it on 12. Learn to see at which point you achieve control over the game, and bait them into getting very close to killing youko (instead of ACTUALLY killing the support models around her). 

Anyway, just some thoughts. I played Seamus all last edition (when he was considered bad, and even after reva came out and he was considered garbage) and in the end, player skill and experience can take you to the level where player skill and experience, not crew selection, is the primary factor in victory. 

 

Good luck!

 

Joshua