Youku Advice

[Takoa]

Hey all,

 

I always seem to enjoy the aesthetic and story of control master's, so I've dived headlong into Youku. The problem is, I don't really see good ways to protect against killy crews like Nephalim, and the like. Planning on getting a game in tomorrow, but was wondering if anyone had any tips to try and not get destroyed by turn 2 by aggressive masters.

 

Any help is greatly appreciated.

[Yew Arcane]

Youko has access to armor through Hinamatsu and the Bunraku. From what I can tell she doesn't have a lot to deal with black blood though. So you might want to use the speed of Bunraku and Hinamatsu to manage schemes and strategies.

[Takoa]

Yes, I realized that Bunraku would mostly be my scheme runners, though I thought I might need Hinamatsu for potential deterrent against rushing Youku down. Possibly giving her the upgrade that gives her challenge. Although if you have tips for movement or particular things to focus on against teams like Nekima, Lady J, Parker, etc, I'm all ears.

[Ogid]

I'm still learning the game, so this comes from a rookie who also like the mechanics of this keyword; but I hope you find these general advices useful:

The first thing is learning about the other guys "threat range" (including pushes from other models). You don't want to get attacked by 2 or 3 actions from a master like LadyJ or Nekima, keep your distance so they have to rush you.

Use your tricks to engage in your own terms: Lure a dangerous activated model; use and abuse the Distracted and attack his hand with Chiyo and Youko (mind Youko "we own you" may use the bonus ability; check if there are models with abilities like consume that may be heavily abused). A rusher looks less scary with Slow, Distracted +3 and without cards. If they have cheap supports who may end conditions, make them a priority when they get near; you need the debuffs badly. Also don't be afraid to engage an overextended model. Youko creed doesn't look bad in a straight fight; models like Kunoichi, Hinamatsu or the Kabuki hit hard.

Kunoichi for me are one of the best models of this crew considering the cost. They have some decent defensive tech, plus tools to the job; that ability is brutal, you can get back high cards from the discard pile and choose a suit for your turn (combined with Youko and Chiyo attacking their hand, you will have a big advantage). If you play your distracted well their damage track may be 4/5/6 (keep them near of Youko, Geishas and Hinamatsu for this). And as scheme runners away from the core enemy list with Trained Ninja they looks great; they can get reliabily the "No witnessess" trigger against isolated enemy scheme runner. And on top of that "I've got your back"

Don't overlook the Geishas btw, they are very fragile, specially versus ranged attacks (so be extra careful versus these or use other models); but for their price they are quite good. Distraction make her attack "Sharp Wit" very reliable (Slow+Distracted is no joke) and Youko's abilities very hard to resist. Lure has a very good stat for a 4 points model (and could be also used to reposition your own troops, not only the other team (like make a Kabuki being able to attack twice without charging). Plus they are a cheap source of Leverage.

Buff and heal your party: I'd include 1 tanuki or 1 low river. Also some tricks: Lure with the geishas and trigger Galvanize. Use tools for the job and get the Galvanize trigger with your kunoichi attacking your own models twice the first turn (the tanuki or a low river may heal the damage done); a few focus in your beaters and some healing would also make rushers think twice. Save some SS to protect Youko (this is very important) and if you are really worried a tough minion (like a Samurai) with "Take the hit" from "Silent Protector" could also protect her but that might be overkill.

Remember you have a quite good versatile pool in TT to get from ranged damage, to support to more muscle; models like Tanukis, Samurais or the Lone swordman could be decent hires if you need their skills.

Without knowing who are you facing is hard to give extra advice, but the main one would be: don't be afraid. Youko crew have a lot of tools to adapt to the match, good scheme runners and can fight back or Lure the other models into their death if someone just rushes carelessly closer than he should.

[Da Git]

Some general tips for taking Youko into Nekima.

Disguised is a great defense as Nephilim are pretty much all about combat: Kunoichi, Chiyo, Geisha all have this. Combat Finesse on Kabuki warriors is also amazing for this too.

Avoid things with a 1" melee or less if possible to reduce Black Blood splash damage. For this I'd avoid Hinamatsu as well as she relies on lots of attacks, which will just kill herself from Black Blood. Try to Focus and do big hits. I'd take Bill over Hina.

Nephilim massively out-speed you so will dictate fights on their terms. To prevent this, use Lures to bring them into you (after they've activated). Another option is to take a shooter. My favourite is Fuhatsu.

Yamaziko could be a good choice... with Extended reach and Finesse, she's surprisingly durable and can protect others from chargers. Great teacher will greatly aid Kabuki warriors/Kunoichi actually hit Mature Nephilim (they also have Combat Finesse).

[Ogid]

17 hours ago, Da Git said:

Yamaziko could be a good choice... with Extended reach and Finesse, she's surprisingly durable and can protect others from chargers. Great teacher will greatly aid Kabuki warriors/Kunoichi actually hit Mature Nephilim (they also have Combat Finesse).

Love that suggestion, Yamaziko is amazing, and his Master Tactician go sooo well with Youko's theme (you forces them to discard cards or to reveal schemes early and activate Leverage, win-win).

[Takoa]

So, played against brewmaster, and learned a few things. If I'm using kunoichi, they need to be paired with a geisha for maximum effect. Also, Hinamatsu is super easily countered. Youku also has no real defensive tech unless you can pile on more distracted then they have AP, which is quite difficult. Moon Shinobi are also stupid.

 

So yeah, I'm going to look into getting Samurai and probably run with two of them each game until the Kabuki come out, which may be months from now.

 

In the actual game, I realized we have a lot of neat movement tech but it all relies on winning duels, and every plan I set up to try and utilize failed due to failed duels heh. However, it's a start and I'll just have to get more and more games in, though I really worry about anyone who has consistent ranged damage in a crew with essentially no stealth.

[Nikodemus]

5 minutes ago, Takoa said:

though I really worry about anyone who has consistent ranged damage in a crew with essentially no stealth.

Youko's totem has Stealth. If I recall correctly, besides her only Stealth model in TT is Torakage (Last Blossom, 6ss + tax).

So arguably Qi&Gong is right up there when it comes to TT stealth crews.

[Takoa]

You can also hand out two stealth via upgrades. What I really mean is, if someone has consistent ranged damage, I see then ripping through the keyword as there isnt much armored, no shielded, relatively no stealth (minus the totem), and only one model that gives cover. I think this might change some with Kabuki as they have armor and lure, so they can move forward to lure and not worry too much about being shot, but geishas, Youku, charm warders, etc, you really have to play conservatively.

 

Maybe I should look to see if there is more consistent ranged distracted out of keyword, and I definitely need to get my hands on low river monks for consistent healing.

[mattbird]

The more I read all these cards, the less I see here worth taking. Nothing really threatens the opponent; it just annoys them constantly. 

 

[NickDub]

If you want to calm down an aggressive master, get 2 samurai with the Trained Ninja upgrades. It’s a commitment but it puts pressure on the opponent. 

[Yew Arcane]

21 minutes ago, mattbird said:

The more I read all these cards, the less I see here worth taking. Nothing really threatens the opponent; it just annoys them constantly. 

 

Malifaux isn't really a game about killing your opponent. It's about completing objectives and preventing your opponent from doing the same. Qi and Gong are great at prventing the opponent from completing their objectives.

[mattbird]

I am aware of the game objectives.  I just doubt that Qi and Gong can achieve them, because all their models will be dead. 

[Takoa]

20 minutes ago, Yew Arcane said:

Malifaux isn't really a game about killing your opponent. It's about completing objectives and preventing your opponent from doing the same. Qi and Gong are great at prventing the opponent from completing their objectives.

I'm not sure I quite see it.. we have lures, distract, and hand manipulation. If the opponent schemes, we essentially get free positive flips, but schemes don't get extra points for scoring them early, so they can just focus on killing us and then scheme later after we are broken. The hand manipulation is neat, but if the opponent simply front loads his turn.. you miss out on that feature completely. I do enjoy the lures, but they have to go off, and if you simply stop those, a lot of the Qi and Gong turn becomes wasted actions to compensate.

 

I do want to find a way to make this all work, though I am noticing a lot of weaknesses currently, but I also need to play more.

[mattbird]

You can lure them, sure. But then they are closer to models that are easy to kill, and don't exactly threaten the enemy. 

[Takoa]

1 hour ago, mattbird said:

You can lure them, sure. But then they are closer to models that are easy to kill, and don't exactly threaten the enemy. 

I believe we can use it to leverage our No Witnesses trigger, or to help with the 1" engagement range of Hinamatsu, but it is more difficult to do. I also believe that the Kabuki will be more of that threatening presence due to their damage track, but we still have to wait for their release.

[mattbird]

Kabuki and Hinamatsu are solid, and I'd field either. (yes, I know only Yokou can field Hinamatsu)

I don't think trying to set up No Witnesses is worth the bother. 

[Ogid]

Brewmaster is a tough one for Youko, all those drunked kung-fu wreck distracted, distraction and serene counterance. I've not played them but I think you are being too negative; their tools seem good enough:

Youko isn't tough, but she has serene countenance and Informants; a model without distracted and with focused is needed to not having negatives flipping versus her, and Youko can get rid of the first card of the deck if it's a good one. A good adversary will try to focus before engaging her; control those with distracted and if possible, debuff them with tanukis and get rid of that Focused. Also have ready some SS to reduce damage just in case.

The hand manipulation is not that easy to control, they will have 1 less card and you'll force them to discard random cards (and when you force them to discard, you will draw; so your hand will get better at the same time); good cards would go to waste sooner or later. Plus if they activate near of Youko you can peek the first card of his deck and discard it, add the Kunoichis getting back good cards form the discard pile and we can say that Youko's hand should be better than the other player. And if the other crew decide to try to frontload his damage to "counter" the hand manipulation, then take advantage of that! Your hand should be better anyway and their good beaters would be activated and overextended, kill them. Thanks to the Kunoich distracted is both a defensive and ofensive tool for this crew (so pile distracted+2 and just kill them with the Kunoichis) or just control them with Geishas, distracted combined with slow is much more effective; the next turn they will be sitting ducks.

Lure is much more effective in an already activated model, and can also be used in your models to reposition them (like putting that Hinamatsu in charge range)

Don't look at the extra pass tokens only as flips, they are much more valuable as pass tokens in some scenarios. Just let them activate before you; if they go deep, they will be more vulnerable.

Focus in scoring your points early, not in looking for trouble. If they ignore you and go for his points; leverage will activate giving you the edge. If they try to engage early, they will have to be the ones rushing into you and getting exposed, again take advantage of that.

Abuse Distracted (Geishas and Kabuki), that is a great way to use Wp abilities very reliabily (like almost all Youko's).

This keyword has crappy healing, so Tanukis or Low River monks would be good additions.

Versus lists that may field good ranged firepower you'll have to adapt to that game. You have Bullet proof, armor, the shadow emissary, trained Ninja... use those and also make sure you have enough cover. If the map is too open and the other faction may field good shooty crews, then maybe Youko isn't the best choice. But you can always go OOK and get Fuhatsu, Samurais and Yamaziko and just fight the fire with fire.

 

IDK, maybe you are right and they are under the curve; but Youko doesn't seem easy to play; give her a few more tries and let us know.

[Takoa]

Oh, I totally will, and thank you for the tips. I plan on playing a wide variety of control masters, but Youku is my main one atm until the rest of Lucius's crew comes out. Thank you for all that advice and I'll be doing what I can to out it into effect.

[Ogid]

Np! Let us know how it goes. I'll get Youko's crew sooner or later so I'm interested in some feedback (but I'll probably play it more from the NVB side, as that is my main faction)

I'm not sure how big is your TT collection, but I'd recommend you to focus a bit first in one faction before getting too many control master from different factions. Having at least 2 or 3 keywords from TT and the best OOK and versatile models will help you a lot to tailor the right crew for the game. In TT Jackob is another good controlish master inside the faction if you like that style (and some of his models might be OKish OOK as they have rig the deck and long range distracted); Misaki as a second master would probably work quite well (she gets a lot out of pass tokens); and her crew is quite versatile and have good shooters, not a bad addition. Asami crew is pretty good and again not bad choice as a second master taking in count Youko can get the high cards needed for summoning... and those are just some examples, every  TT master is quite good.

I recommend you to pick 1 main faction, having master from different factions is nice; but it'll hurt your choices when you have to adapt to one particular crew.

[Adran]

I haven't played with the Qi and Gong crew, so I'm only basing it on my reading of the cards, but the crew don't look easier to kill than anyone else. And that's before you start to look at the hand control of the crew. Knowing your opponents hand from Backroom dealings is a huge power that she has. You can use that knowledge in every duel that happens for the rest of the turn, knowing what level you want to cheat to. And you can also alter the opponents deck throughout the turn.

What the crew doesn't have is a lot of damage dealing (but there is certainly some available through Bill and Kubuko warriors and even the Kunoichi ir you're getting a decent abmoutn of Distracted out there as well as Hinamatsu). You will probably need to go into the game with a plan that doesn't involve killing much which is what makes the crew feel fragile, is that you think you can't punish the opponent for coming to you to attack. You can, just not in the normal way.

[Ogid]

Check these OOK models, they might worth a try (not counting masters and obvious contenders like Tanuki, Fuhatsu, the lone swordman and the like). Most of these would try to take advantage of Distraction:

• Lust, thematically a perfect match :P. She has 3 Wp abilities with long/medium range, 1 of them end focused and gives distracted, the other place and also gives distracted. "Now kiss" looks quite good, place the other model with a model engaged by a Geisha/Kabuki for maximum profit.
• Beckoner: Lust would be much better imo, but it's 1 SS cheaper and has rig the deck and a long range distracted...
• Ten Thunder Brother: Cheapish; diversion, missdirection and keeping the peace are quite disruptive. Best use for diversion if there are short range  you want to avoid. Not 100% sold with this one tho.
• Terracota Warriors: Copy Bill's tacticals actions; replace fallen Kabuki/Kunoichi/Chiyo.
• Jorogumo (summoned): Extended reach, good beater and heal denial (Wp ability).
• Wandering Monk: Cheap and fast scheme runner.
• Yamaziko: Extended reach, Great teacher/Finesse and Master tactician (wp, discard cards)
• Katanaka crime boss: Extended reach, decent beater, pressure (wp, discard or obey) and some scheme shenanigans.
• Chiaky: Draw card, Dispel + Slow (Wp range 6 stat 7, slow machine and may get rid of Focused), can attach his relicary to one friendly model (Guardian Spirit and Manipulative). Manipulative in a crew with so many pass tokens is amazing.
• Lotus eater: Threaten (Wp, adversary), Agressive stance (Distracted), some scheme shenanigans and a counterattack.

Personal favourites: Chiaky, Lust, Yamaziko and the Katanaka Crime Boss.

 

[Cursed25]

54 minutes ago, Ogid said:

• Chiaky: Draw card, Dispel + Slow (Wp range 6 stat 7, slow machine and may get rid of Focused), can attach his relicary to one friendly model (Guardian Spirit and Manipulative). Manipulative in a crew with so many pass tokens is amazing.

Sadly Chiaki can't split her own soul because the ability is a pulse and not an aura! She will only give her reliquary when she dies.

 

Also you forgot the best OOK model for Youko! Mr. Tannen is amazing with her!

[Jesy Blue]

4 minutes ago, Cursed25 said:

Also you forgot the best OOK model for Youko! Mr. Tannen is amazing with her!

Mr Tannen is the Bomb in Qi & Gong!

[Ogid]

Ty for the insight ,

I overlooked him. Tannen also looks quite good with her: Betrayal, rig the deck+2 and manipulative would work well with Youko; Boring Conversation would be amazing in enemies engaged by Geishas/Kabukis (but he would have to give up manipulative to activate early, so it might backfire), decent attack, long range distracted... yeah he looks legit.

It's true... Chiaki's ability is a pulse not an aura; so she would be out of range... It's still a decent OOK versus crews who will use states on themselves, stat 7 and slow is quite good, even without the relicary.

Thinking about it... Sun Quiang also looks legit, df 7 and wp 6 (lol), a pseudo buterfly jump to save allies that also heal, a healing aura, distracted or focused with 3 amazing triggers, healing, study... wow. More expensive than a tanuki or a Low river but seems to worth it.