How Much Terrain Do You Use?

[noob]

So, when I was taught how to play the game, the person teaching me said that there "shouldn't be any part of the board where you can put your hand down flat, fingers spread, without touching terrain."

In the main rulebook it doesn't clearly (that I have found) state how much terrain should be, or is recommended, to be used.

We use scatter terrain to augment the buildings so there are not all too many open spaces but still plenty of room for models to move.

I'm seeing pictures online of a wide range of the amount of terrain used and was just wondering what everyone's local take on that was!  Share pictures and ideas!

Here is an example of how I'd set up a quick game board:

 

[Paddywhack]

That doesn't look too bad, except I see a lot of Blocking terrain and not much else. I would fee good playing on it as I see lots of opportunity to hide if needed and still have open lanes for charging/shooting.

Adding in some more Severe and Concealing terrain would be good to break things up a bit. Concealing is especially important in the this edition as it helps tone down ranged crews who can otherwise be a terror. If you don't want forests you can use things like small steam vents, chemical spills, etc. for small areas of concealing. 

[LeperColony]

19 minutes ago, Paddywhack said:

Concealing is especially important in the this edition as it helps tone down ranged crews who can otherwise be a terror. If you don't want forests you can use things like small steam vents, chemical spills, etc. for small areas of concealing. 

I agree that some non-impassible concealing terrain would be a good addition/replacement for some of the blocking buildings.  

[Clement]

4 hours ago, noob said:

So, when I was taught how to play the game, the person teaching me said that there "shouldn't be any part of the board where you can put your hand down flat, fingers spread, without touching terrain."

In the main rulebook it doesn't clearly (that I have found) state how much terrain should be, or is recommended, to be used.

Pg. 40 of the rules pdf has you covered.

A standard Malifaux table is 3 feet by 3 feet. Roughly a third of its surface should be covered in terrain.

Using the correct amount of terrain and having a variety of represented Terrain Traits is important to ensuring that games of Malifaux are fun for both players Long range Actions are intended to be somewhat limited by terrain that offers Concealment and/or Cover Severe Terrain is intended to shape the game by making some areas of the table more difficult to reach

The hand rule seems a pretty good start though.

[Jesy Blue]

On my map, there are a 12" deployment line.  We just go around the shop adding stuff to push into that space until it's full, getting that 1/3 of the board, then spread it out across the table as equally as possible.

We have a good number of river pieces, lake pieces, and this cool graveyard area piece that we call sever and blocking height 1 (you have to pick through the tombstones so it slows you down, and if you're height 1 you count as in cover).

[LeperColony]

1 hour ago, Jesy Blue said:

We have a good number of river pieces, lake pieces, and this cool graveyard area piece that we call sever and blocking height 1 (you have to pick through the tombstones so it slows you down, and if you're height 1 you count as in cover).

Unless I'm mistaken, it should count as cover to a model of height 2 as long as one of the sight lines passes through the tombstone and the target is within the shadow (1").

[Jesy Blue]

Quote

Blocking: Terrain with the Blocking Trait cannot be seen through and therefore it blocks LoS if the Height of the terrain is equal to or greater than the Size of the models attempting to draw sight lines through it.

If the terrain is height 1 it does nothing for size 2 or greater models.

[CD1248]

21 minutes ago, Jesy Blue said:

If the terrain is height 1 it does nothing for size 2 or greater models.

Terrain grants cover to any model standing in it's Shadow, regardless of size, as long as a sight line crosses the terrain. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

4 hours ago, Jesy Blue said:

On my map, there are a 12" deployment line.  We just go around the shop adding stuff to push into that space until it's full, getting that 1/3 of the board, then spread it out across the table as equally as possible.

This seems like a solid, practical method. If you're supposed to do a third, just cover up a third of the board and then spread it around! I'll likely try this the next time I play.

[LeperColony]

1 hour ago, Jesy Blue said:

If the terrain is height 1 it does nothing for size 2 or greater models.

I don't believe that's correct.  My understanding of the rules is that blocking terrain or other models prevent drawing line-of-sight up to their height.  However, if any sight line crosses blocking terrain of any height, and if the target is within the shadow of the terrain, then it gets cover.  Even if the terrain is not sufficiently large to block LoS.

[Jesy Blue]

So.... it would be completly blocked from LoS to all height 1 models, therefore couldn't take a shot against them, and everything else height 2 or greater gets cover from all shots, yes?

You know that's cinematically much cooler!  Shots ricocheting off the marble, little guys crawling from stone to stone!

I might get them to make more tombstone terrain.

[LeperColony]

7 hours ago, Jesy Blue said:

So.... it would be completly blocked from LoS to all height 1 models, therefore couldn't take a shot against them, and everything else height 2 or greater gets cover from all shots, yes?

Yes, that's how I believe it works.  

[noob]

Good calls, everyone!  I have a lot of buildings and obstacles for blocking terrain but need to invest some time/money in making/buying some concealing terrain.

How about Hazardous terrain innately on the board? (As in, aside from being created by the crews playing on the board)  Do you all put a lot on there or commonly use it in your board set ups?

[Bakunin]

Barbed wire fences are always useful for Hazardous.

Another thing I try to keep in mind is how big are the individual terrain pieces? Severe terrain that's larger than 6" across is gonna take multiple turns to get thru for nearly any model that can't ignore it. Large blobs of concealing terrain take a lot more to get los than multiple smaller pieces in the same place. 

[Jesy Blue]

We've used a couple of swamps with weird coloring for toxic gas when in them for hazardous, were had some barbed wire left over from the 40k City Fight supplements, and a particular rose garden with thorns.

[Mortarion]

One thing to think of with terrain is to vary the density of it. When deploying terrain many people instinctively spread it evenly across the board. In my opinion, the game will be much more interesting if some areas have "too much" terrain while others have "too little". This will lead to more choises to make. Do you risk going through that open area in order to reach the enemy or a strategy marker faster? Should you let your incorporeal models go for a scheme, or leave them guarding that terrain heavy area where they can really haress your opponent?

Of course, this should not go overboard, but a little variation in terrain density is fun.

[Maniacal_cackle]

38 minutes ago, Mortarion said:

One thing to think of with terrain is to vary the density of it. When deploying terrain many people instinctively spread it evenly across the board. In my opinion, the game will be much more interesting if some areas have "too much" terrain while others have "too little". This will lead to more choises to make. Do you risk going through that open area in order to reach the enemy or a strategy marker faster? Should you let your incorporeal models go for a scheme, or leave them guarding that terrain heavy area where they can really haress your opponent?

Of course, this should not go overboard, but a little variation in terrain density is fun.

I agree, but also find that even small variations in terrain can give the attacker a big advantage..

So I have settled on slight variations (which still seems to result in favouring the attacker).

[unti]

Seems like I didn't see your thread but it's actually the same what I wanted to start here so I will just add my pictures. 

 

i always try to put something los-blocking in the middle because I don't like games where you can place your gunline in the middle and see everything...

How much of your terrain is usually concealing /severe/....? And do you use terrain with different heights to stand on?

[Maniacal_cackle]

@unti that seems like a sweet setup, I might try copying it.

I currently spread stuff mostly evenly across the board with some variation, but it doesn't work so well yet. We also tend to not put terrain in the exact centre since it can interfere with idols markers being placed or turf war markers. We've started to put a bit of terrain where they land, though.

On another note, I sometimes feel like terrain is overwhelmingly powerful in this edition. Some games are decided just by the way terrain ends up placed and who flips attacker/defender it feels like (but it could be just that when games are close, terrain is a deciding factor).

[Maniacal_cackle]

Although the rivers seem wayyyy to wide if they're severe terrain. I have started using 1" wide rivers, and they still feel absolutely crippling (since if you are in base contact with severe you're slowed down, crossing a 1" river takes away 1" + 60mm of movement for the smallest model. It takes 100mm +1" for 50mm models, or about 5 inches...)

[Jesy Blue]

Thats why you look at the table, then pick your crew.

You see something liked this and you pick a flying crew, or a leaping crew, or an unimpeded crew.

Picking your crew is not just scheme, strategy and opponent based; it's also table based.

You gotta lot of buildings on the table, you know I'm taking Hucksters.  If there are choke points I can fit a 50mm base through, I'm rolling up on you with the Lucky Emissary.  If there's very poor firing and movment lanes, I'm indirect firing on you with the Freikorps.

It's all connected!

[Maniacal_cackle]

9 minutes ago, Jesy Blue said:

Thats why you look at the table, then pick your crew.

You see something liked this and you pick a flying crew, or a leaping crew, or an unimpeded crew.

Picking your crew is not just scheme, strategy and opponent based; it's also table based.

You gotta lot of buildings on the table, you know I'm taking Hucksters.  If there are choke points I can fit a 50mm base through, I'm rolling up on you with the Lucky Emissary.  If there's very poor firing and movment lanes, I'm indirect firing on you with the Freikorps.

It's all connected!

That's true! It's a bit unfortunate for my playgroup, though. Everyone is new, and other than me and one other player, everyone owns only one master.

[mythicFOX]

On 8/16/2019 at 2:51 PM, noob said:

So, when I was taught how to play the game, the person teaching me said that there "shouldn't be any part of the board where you can put your hand down flat, fingers spread, without touching terrain."

I really like that rule of thumb.  (Pun intended.)

Generally I think a on good board you're able to answer 'yes' to these five questions (in order of importance);

1. Can a crew exit it's deployment zone and move towards any objective point by a reasonably direct route?
2. Are there multiple routs to each objective point?
3. Can models at each objective point hide from models at the majority of the other objective points?
4. Can players deploy models that can't be seen from the other deployment zone?
5. Are there gaps of >50mm between almost all terrain pieces which impact movement?

An objective point being places on the board VPs will be scored in the scenario being played.

One, two, and five tend provide for any crew to be able to move around the board effectively (not too much terrain).  Rules three and four test that the terrain is sufficiently impacting on play (not too little terrain).

I'll add @noob's rule to my list going forward. 

[LeperColony]

3 minutes ago, mythicFOX said:

I'll add @noob's rule to my list going forward. 

So if you have small hands, play a melee crew and if you've got piano player hands, go ranged!

[Mycellanious]

22 minutes ago, mythicFOX said:

I really like that rule of thumb.  (Pun intended.)

Generally I think a on good board you're able to answer 'yes' to these five questions (in order of importance);

1. Can a crew exit it's deployment zone and move towards any objective point by a reasonably direct route?
2. Are there multiple routs to each objective point?
3. Can models at each objective point hide from models at the majority of the other objective points?
4. Can players deploy models that can't be seen from the other deployment zone?
5. Are there gaps of >50mm between almost all terrain pieces which impact movement?

An objective point being places on the board VPs will be scored in the scenario being played.

One, two, and five tend provide for any crew to be able to move around the board effectively (not too much terrain).  Rules three and four test that the terrain is sufficiently impacting on play (not too little terrain).

I'll add @noob's rule to my list going forward. 

I'm not sure that like rule 5 too much. Certainly you want there to be paths for 50mm models to get across the board, but I think "make sure 50mm models can fit between all terrain" gives them a needless advantage. In general, larger base models have greater board control because they have greater reach, but 30mm models are more nimble because they can fit in more places and can pile in around models more. The game is more interesting imo when there are places 50mm models cant go, and its not like its a straight hinderance because you can use a 50mm model to block off a chokepoint you need to hold. It is also my opinion that the belief that the table needs to be acessible to 50mm models is part of what makes Henchman or Enforcer heavy beater crews feel so strong in Malifaux, because a lot of those models, (Yassunori, Archie, Izamu, Peacekeeper, the Golems, etc) are 50mm models whereas most minions in Malifaux are 30mm models. 

A compromise I've been playing around with lately is placing destructable objects between large pieces of terrain, so that in those areas 30mm models have the mobility advantage in the early turns, but they can clear the way for their big beater buddies to push up later in the game if either player deems it important