Marcus M3E Tactics

[Ogid]

1 hour ago, KingCrow said:

What are everyone's thoughts on bringing the Mechanical Rider with Marcus? While it is not a Beast, it has the damage capability with psuedo-auto trigger to draw cards (needed for all the discards in the crew), it can get Marcus out of tough spots with Ride With Me (perhaps the main reason for bringing it and useful to keep Marcus up with the rest of the crew - saving AP to throw up upgrade/charge other Beasts), can be tanky and can place different types of Markers at range.  The only concern is the cost and thus going down to 7 models in a crew. 

I'm not an arcanist player but Riders in general are solid. The MR has 0 synergy with Marcus crew but he can be pretty independent so it'd probably work fine.

1 hour ago, KingCrow said:

Also, just realized that the Initiate isnt even a Beast so it cant be a damage shunt or forced to move/charge.  There is no reason to ever bring this model!!! But... I'll have to give one a try here sometime although I dont have high expectations. 

They are beast, without being beast they would be crap tier XD

1 hour ago, KingCrow said:

Lastly, it kinda irks me off that I have to worry about who is Chimera and who are Beasts in the same Keyword crew.  Seems like I have to play a juggle game in my own crew when there are crews like the Viks that have everything affect everyone. It just seems like a bad idea and I'm surprised it wasn't caught during the beta testing.  I wonder if those actions that clarify Beast or Chimera only should just say both to make the crew mesh easier. I think it would. 

Hehe, it happens to some crews; but at least in this one is kind of easy to see the difference. If it's fluffy/non-human is probably a beast, the humans are the chimera.

[KingCrow]

4 minutes ago, Ogid said:

They are beast, without being beast they would be crap tier

According to the Beta files, they are not Beasts.  They're only Living and Chimera minions.  So for one more soulstone, I get more synergy and capability in a Cerberus.  This, not point in ever taking an initiate.  It's a dead model that will never see use. 

[KingCrow]

6 minutes ago, Ogid said:

Hehe, it happens to some crews; but at least in this one is kind of easy to see the difference. If it's fluffy/non-human is probably a beast, the humans are the chimera.

Just irks me that this crew isnt a synergistic as almost every other crew out there.  Especially when the base models are so expensive cost-cost-wise. 

[Ogid]

23 minutes ago, KingCrow said:

According to the Beta files, they are not Beasts.  They're only Living and Chimera minions.  So for one more soulstone, I get more synergy and capability in a Cerberus.  This, not point in ever taking an initiate.  It's a dead model that will never see use

They should have been changed them at the end of the beta, the cards in Wyrd's webpage have the beast keyword...

21 minutes ago, KingCrow said:

Just irks me that this crew isnt a synergistic as almost every other crew out there.  Especially when the base models are so expensive cost-cost-wise. 

It's more a support/beatstick theme. The humans are the supports and the beast are... the beasts lol. The crew is very good and versatile.

Also If I recall correctly, only Marcus and Crocket are the only 2 100% humans, the other 2 humans are shapeshifters so they can gain the keyword and get the orders if needed. The non-beast give a lot of buffs and heals to the beast, so they are worth it.

[KingCrow]

23 minutes ago, Ogid said:

They should have been changed them at the end of the beta, the cards in Wyrd's webpage have the beast keyword...

Didnt realize that Wyrd had put out their M3E cards and made that last minute change.  That's what I get for being busy and not reading newsletters. Lol. 

I agree about the versatility and they seem pretty good.  I'm just trying to figure out ways to shore up their weaknesses, such as outdistancing Marcus (possibly using the MR to move him around) and Marcus getting targeted (deciding which Beast to keep near). 

[Ogid]

mmm beasts to keep near... you have a few options;

• The initiates, bad protected target but they give you card draw, his charge with at least 2 mutations will hurt (3/4/5 + stampede) and may move other models.
• Ferdinand: Not a beast but it has impasioned defense and a spell. The beast is a good protected target (H2W df6) plus heal shapesifting
• Cojo: bad protected target (but a lot of Wd), but the toss is golden to both reposition marcus and send dangerous threats away (also you can use it to keep the Armored Plates shielded up in Marcus if needed)
• Bear: Good protected target (H2W, Grit, juggernaut)

The beast are better to pass the damage, but unless they are also doing other stuff (droping schemes while near of him or defending the center for example), these are a lot of points just standing around Marcus. Ferdinand and the Initiates are worse (or illegal) protected targets, so Marcus will need a defensive mutation just in case; the advantage is they may do some stuff at distance while supporting Marcus.

But the best deffense is a good offense, the threat of your beasts should keep most enemies away from him; if they are worried for your 2 attuned cerberi lurking around, they won't attack you

[Clevelander]

I've returned to the game for the first time since the M2E Beta.  I tested Marcus a lot back then, but I never played when the actual edition change came around.  I am loving M3E and Marcus.  I've slammed 7 games with him now, and it just keeps getting better.   At first I was pretty annoyed that I no longer owned a full crew(Just had Marcus and a slew of other factions' beasts).  However once I opened my wallet, the chimeric revelry began.

One nuance I played improperly at first:  When Myranda shifts into a beast, any attached Mutations are discarded.  This is in Part 3 of the Replace mechanic.  It broke my heart when I realized a flying, armored myranda couldn't shift into the Bear and maintain those potent upgrades.  

I find Myranda to be a great Claim Jump model.  Shifting into a Cerberus for deadly pursuit to the centerpoint is pretty easy to pull off.  When I am certain my opponent has taken CJ, shifting Myranda to a bear or a cerberus is a great way to tie up their CJ model.  I had a blast taking Ototo prisoner when the attempted to jump my claims.  

I am feeling like Paul Crocket is important in Reckoning and Turf War.  The damage potential and target selection that he brings can really.  I keep taking him in other strats too, because I keep expecting him to perform poorly.  However he always seems worth his points.  Perhaps I'll drop him when stealthy models are expected.

One clumsy mistake I have made a few times is not bringing enough beasts.  Call of the wild is great but it's easy to let my fast beasts get too far away.  My group often plays 35 SS matches.  A few matches have started with Ferdinand, Paul, and Myranda, that doesn't leave a lot of space for Call targets.  

The match that really made me groan was playing against Misaki in Reckoning.  Extended reach is a pain when my crew relies on AP efficiency through Charges.  

[Mycellanious]

41 minutes ago, Clevelander said:

One nuance I played improperly at first:  When Myranda shifts into a beast, any attached Mutations are discarded.  This is in Part 3 of the Replace mechanic.  It broke my heart when I realized a flying, armored myranda couldn't shift into the Bear and maintain those potent upgrades.  

This used to be an issue in the Beta that both Myranda and Vogel had, but it was brought up and corrected. You will be happy to know that both Vogel's Shapechange and Myranda's Beast Shape both specifiy "without discarding any upgrades" as part of the action

[Nikodemus]

4 hours ago, Clevelander said:

I had a blast taking Ototo prisoner when the attempted to jump my claims. 

As was pointed out, Myranda gets to keep her upgrades when replacing due to her special rule. Ototo however is not a legal Prisoner target. That scheme specifies minion or enforcer, and Ototo is a henchman.

I would imagine Paul Crockett suffers at lower point sizes, since so much of his power is seemingly tied into having other models to combo attacks with. Preferably Beasts, which you don't have a lot of. Guess not if it hasn't bothered you.

I think Marcus has decent options for dealing with Extended Reach, far as melee crews go. If you bubble up (though again at lower point size you may or may not be able to afford that due to scheming needs), you can get quite a bit of non-charging movement. Marcus' bonus (3-4" likely) + Leap (~8" on a Cerberus) let's you punch things that are just shy of 13" away without doing charges. More if you don't need to chain activate and can spend ap on Call of the Wild. Sure it really puts a dent on your threat ranges, but I'd say most melee crews struggle to do even that.

[Clevelander]

Thanks for pointing out those nuances.  

 

[Ludvig]

The mech rider is pretty scary with Marcus. You can have a crew with four models that have onslaught (+pouncing strike on Marcus and the jsckalope) and the rider can pulse out automatic masks for everyone within 6" giving you a pretty nice offensive turn.

[diki]

18 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

The mech rider is pretty scary with Marcus. You can have a crew with four models that have onslaught (+pouncing strike on Marcus and the jsckalope) and the rider can pulse out automatic masks for everyone within 6" giving you a pretty nice offensive turn.

Mech also adds a bit of range, scheming or feeding cojo* focus. With Soulstone Cache and good/lucky cards you can be double activating late game as well

* Although I find cojo VERY squishy - it's hard to know if the main value is scaring your opponent into wasting Ap killing it

[Ludvig]

He's pretty nice as an anti schemer if there are markers in the pool. Cojo, the rider and two cerberi would make for an expensive but fun core. Four (six with the free ones) models at 37ss sounds like a steal to me, I hate having too many damn activations to worry about.  

[KingCrow]

How are people enjoying the Scorpius? I'm debating bringing it into my next game with Marcus in a game of Turf War. It seems self-sufficient but I dont want to spend stones on something that is very swing-y.  It also almost seems that it should be a "finisher" model to use The Feeding's trigger. 

[Jinn]

2 hours ago, KingCrow said:

How are people enjoying the Scorpius? I'm debating bringing it into my next game with Marcus in a game of Turf War. It seems self-sufficient but I dont want to spend stones on something that is very swing-y.  It also almost seems that it should be a "finisher" model to use The Feeding's trigger. 

The Scorpius is (IMO) one of the few beasts that is good for its cost before upgrades (along with the Cerberus and Blessed), which makes it great in a Marcus crew. If your opponent can't ignore armour then you can put it up to armour +2 and it becomes very difficult to kill.

It has extra movement, ceaseless advance, armour, stat 7, poison (and the poison damage aura), and can turn off stoning and triggers. I would consider it close to an autotake for any Marcus list.

[KingCrow]

So I did a little write-up on how I've been playing Marcus for a guy on FB and figured I'd post it on here as well for anyone who didn't see it on the Arcanists FB page.  Tell me what y'all think. Maybe I should do an actual tactica with Marcus as writing this all down was pretty fun, unless there already is one and I've missed it? Can anyone do tacticas? Do I have to have it approved by moderators? I know 3rd floor wars did one already but writing one might be helpful to some people, eh?

 

Anyways, so here are my experiences with Marcus.  Granted I've only had about 10 games with him but over those 10 games, I've tried quite a few things out and determined some things that I think work best, at least for me and hopefully for you too.

First, I'll start with my crew I have played most regularly:

Marcus - 3 stones
Jackalope
Cerberus with Soulstone Cache
Myranda
Ferdinand Vogel 
The Scorpius
Soulstone Miner with Magical Training
Hoarcat

Marcus is a middle tier master and his crew runs a very thin line of being good and getting slaughtered.  To stay above that thin line, positioning and card draw is key. The nice thing is that this crew is very mobile and can strike from multiple vectors. About nine out of ten times, I have most of my models with Mutation upgrades within range to trigger Primal Domain because Cycling cards is one of the strongest ways to keep the crew going. Not to mention the bonuses that come with Adaptive Evolution that trigger the discarding/drawing effect. Saying this, I do like to send my Cerberus (with the Soulstone Cache upgrade and at least two Mutation upgrades) into the enemy backlines or hunting scheme runners as it's the easiest model to do so and to get Soulstones back upon their deaths. Also, remember, when the Cerberus dies, it gives you a Soulstone back due to the damaging timing sequence (step 6C page 34 of the Rulebook).

The Scorpius is an interesting Frontliner/Flanker mostly due to it's Neurotoxins ability.  Once an enemy model within 3 inches (from a 50mm base) has Poison, the model CANNOT USE SOULSTONES OR DECLARE TRIGGERS. At stat 7 with built-in Poison, this model is going to inflict Poison. This prevents damage reduction from soulstone use, defensive triggers, etc.  Its huge. Not to mention the Scorpius can heal from Poisoned models and can draw cards from Poisoned models. Notice that I don't really have anything else that can inflict Poison though (although Myranda can, she will never be using her own melee attacks). This is mostly because Arcanists lack any other real ways to inflict Poison but this usually doesn't matter as most people won't bring Condition removal vs Marcus and the Assist action can't remove the Poison so the enemy model has to let it happen. 

In regards to Myranda, she is a very fluid model. If she is in Beast form and I need a Beast healed (most likely the Scorpius), I have her switch back, heal and then switch forms again to then Charge into an enemy. Her role is very fluid and as needed. I mostly like to change into Blessed of December for the free enemy push on the attack and the Deadly Pursuit to set up a next turn action but if needed, another Cerberus works too.  Usually the field maneuvering is something Cojo can do but I think Cojo is overpriced and I don't like to run him often. Usually only bringing him into Plant Explosives games to throw enemy models with Explosives 10 inches back into their deployment zones. 

Now for the Hoarcat. This model is perfect for when the enemy inevitably targets Marcus and you have to use Marcus's Protected (Beast) ability.  If you haven't activated the Hoarcat (which you shouldn't until last), when the Hoarcat becomes the new target, the enemy is at a negative because of the Manipulative. The Hoarcat also has built-in stealth so they can't target it from range farther than six inches and if the enemy is within 6 inches, they are already having to deal with the rest of the Beasts.  If, for some reason, you need the Hoarcat to run off and do schemes, you then have Ferdinand with you.

Ferdinand is a great model.  Able to help Marcus survive with Shielded +2, non-projectile 8 inch range with trigger to draw cards or push friendly minions around and can place enemies at negatives on attacks.  Oh, also, a huge ass Werewolf jumps out at any enemy who wants to come play which just so happens to be a Beast. 

As for some of you issues such as playing vs armor, it becomes a little difficult because you have to fit in a December Acolyte to get their Analyze Weakness ability or hope to trigger the Beast's Within Armor Piercing trigger. Or rely on Focus to achieve those good Moderate damage capabilities.  I haven't played vs Dreamer but I've heard he is above the curve and is one of the top tier crews so Marcus, as a middle-tier crew, would struggle vs him. 

As for schemes and strats I usually play Marcus into, I try for either attacking, maneuvering, or middle field schemes (although deep schemes are doable with a Soulstone Miner). Claim jump is hard but doable, Search the Ruins, Outflank, stuff like that.  Power Ritual requires you to basically take a model out of the action and with this crew, it's not a good idea although faking it early game is a good idea. As for strats, I personally like Plant Explosives and Turf War. Reckoning can be hard due to the Beasts having a rough time healing unless you're blowing all your Adaptive Evolution's on healing triggers and not more damage. Corrupted Idols is just too much damage. You basically have to get lucky (or your opponent real unlucky) but it's doable. 

[MuMantai]

57 minutes ago, KingCrow said:

 

Now for the Hoarcat. This model is perfect for when the enemy inevitably targets Marcus and you have to use Marcus's Protected (Beast) ability.  If you haven't activated the Hoarcat (which you shouldn't until last), when the Hoarcat becomes the new target, the enemy is at a negative because of the Manipulative. The Hoarcat also has built-in stealth so they can't target it from range farther than six inches and if the enemy is within 6 inches, they are already having to deal with the rest of the Beasts.  If, for some reason, you need the Hoarcat to run off and do schemes, you then have Ferdinand with you.

You are aware that Stealth does nothing for the Hoarcat when Marcus uses Protected (Beast), right? Manipulative is a neat trick, though, never thought of that.

[KingCrow]

4 minutes ago, MuMantai said:

You are aware that Stealth does nothing for the Hoarcat when Marcus uses Protected (Beast), right? Manipulative is a neat trick, though, never thought of that.

Aye, because the attacker ignores LoS, range and targeting on the new target as per the wording on Protected (Beasts).  The Manipulative is the reason to bring the Hoarcat.  Its 5 stones you're having a rough time finding anything to do with but it's also 5 stones that keeps Marcus alive. 

Plus, you should have the Disguised and Stealth upgrade on Marcus anyways so neither of them should be targeted until the enemy moves up.

Upgrades would be something I would cover if I did a full tactica. 

[Nikodemus]

There's no special club (or maybe I'm just not in it) for tacticas. As I see it it's more of a "build it and they will come" thing.

Neat insights. Nothing I can really disagree with. Food for thought for sure.👍

[Stumpyfjord]

I’ve found that success with Marcus is really contingent on knowing the other crew’s abilities well.

The upgrades give you flexibility but knowing if armor or stealth or butterfly jump is the right upgrade for the model seems to be the key.

Marcus only being able to target a model once per round with Chimeramancy and the pace of the game currently (action happening turn 1) means you have to know/guess right first turn.

[Ogid]

8 hours ago, KingCrow said:

Now for the Hoarcat. This model is perfect for when the enemy inevitably targets Marcus and you have to use Marcus's Protected (Beast) ability.  If you haven't activated the Hoarcat (which you shouldn't until last), when the Hoarcat becomes the new target, the enemy is at a negative because of the Manipulative. The Hoarcat also has built-in stealth so they can't target it from range farther than six inches and if the enemy is within 6 inches, they are already having to deal with the rest of the Beasts.  If, for some reason, you need the Hoarcat to run off and do schemes, you then have Ferdinand with you.

mmm, This is interesting. I didn't thought about this use for the Hoarcat. However, does it work better than a H2W model? With just 1 focused attack the hoarcat may be killed, and he has no built in healing.

[Mycellanious]

Idk man, I really like Cojo and the Rattler. I think yalls sleepin on them. I also tend to have Myranda turn into the Scorpius when I need Neurotoxins. Its much easier to catch my opponent off that way, and she can give herself Armor Plating if I want her to tank for Armor 2, I find it fairly survivable so the opponent cant snipe her out while she cant use stones. 

[Ogid]

8 minutes ago, Mycellanious said:

Idk man, I really like Cojo and the Rattler. I think yalls sleepin on them. I also tend to have Myranda turn into the Scorpius when I need Neurotoxins. Its much easier to catch my opponent off that way, and she can give herself Armor Plating if I want her to tank for Armor 2, I find it fairly survivable so the opponent cant snipe her out while she cant use stones. 

Cojo is amazing just for Toss and the Rattler require some finesse but it's also a good beast. How do you find SS cache in Myranda? It let her turn into a less sturdy beast and be safe or turn into an attuned sabertooth if needed.

I'm curious btw, is anyone using initiates?

[Nikodemus]

2 hours ago, Ogid said:

I'm curious btw, is anyone using initiates?

Been using them for the last... +5 games? Fair few times certainly. Not a fan. Uninspiring on paper and fairly meh on the table. Fragile. There's that occasional spark of brilliance where they punch someone for 4/5/6 and I can manage 3/4/5's reasonably consistently, but they're very reliant on positioning etc.. Feels like most of my successes with them have been handed to me by the opponent's unfamiliarity with them. I could just pay +1 for a reliable beast and be done with it. Or swap them for a worthwhile versatile in that 6-8ss range.

Card draw is nice I suppose, but apart from maybe Corrupted Idols it hasn't felt like it overweighs the downsides.

Models are kickass though 

2 hours ago, Mycellanious said:

Idk man, I really like Cojo and the Rattler. I think yalls sleepin on them.

Do enlighten us on the Rattler. I'm just not seeing what it does for 7ss when I compare it to my options in the 6-8ss range.

[CD1248]

3 hours ago, Ogid said:

mmm, This is interesting. I didn't thought about this use for the Hoarcat. However, does it work better than a H2W model? With just 1 focused attack the hoarcat may be killed, and he has no built in healing.

I find that if I need a Protected target the Jackalope works just fine, I'd much rather use the SS on a model that will run off and do work. Plus he can recoup a card when he ditches an upgrade to not die.

Though honestly I don't find Marcus getting attacked all that often, unless Assassinate is in the pool. There isn't that much return on killing him unless you can take him out super early, which even without Protected would be hard because of his 6/6 defenses and ability to operate in the backfield.