Marcus M3E Tactics

[Pastori]

Greetings. So I am a starting Marcus player (two small m2e games under my belt with just Paul Crockett leading a few beasts). I play only casual and friendly games, but would like to discuss options and lists people have tried or might want to try with him. I would also love to hear if you have any ideas what are good models when teaching / demoing the game mechanics to complete newcomers.

That being said, I was thinking of trying Ms. Naidu, a Union Miner, Cojo, and a Mauler for some nice little synergies. Specifically Naidu giving the mauler solid damage track, and the miner feeding Cojo with some scheme markers as well as helping Ms. Naidu with defending herself. The bear and the ape should then be able to perform some heavy frontline duties. I am aware that this combination is very expensive in stones, so can probably just fit a ss miner and an upgrade or two to the list. Comments and ideas, please?

[Ludvig]

My demos are usually more like henchman hard-core games: hench leader, one enforcer/henchman with some scary abilities and 3 or so chaff models that share a statline. A strategy and one scheme per side (I prefer to have two beginners face each other and prepick their schemes). 

You could look at Myranda, Cojo and three molemen for example. Demos tend to take a fair amount of time and keeping track of too many statlines can get confusing. That list showcases the beast upgrade on Myranda, the replace rules from her shape change, defensive and aggressive triggers and bury mechanics.

 

As for stuff I want to try with Marcus I think I'll keep playing him like in m2e: full aggression with lots of big beasts throwing themselves at the enemy. A swampfiend sprinkle in neverborn opening up for some lure tactics also looks pretty interesting to let me play the game a bit more on my own terms. 

[Hawkoon]

The Sabretooth Cerberus with the feathered wings mutation are really really good. I've only tried him once with 2 of those and they were ace. Flight, leap and butterfly jump makes them extremely mobile, not to mention that you can have Myranda or Marcus move them as well.

[thewrathchilde]

Do you listen to Podcasts?

My understanding is the same guy that was the guest on Third Floor Wars a few weeks ago for the Molly deep dive was recently on again to talk Marcus. 

I believe I heard the Marcus episode is going to be released maybe next week.

 

 https://www.podbean.com/podcast-detail/uwxm8-87b4d/TABLETOP-TALK---A-Third-Floor-War's-Podcast

https://thirdfloorwars.com/page/2/

 

[Nikodemus]

I keep Marcus mainly as a fun, chill, casual 2nd faction.

With that said, I had my first game with him and what struck me, compared to my TT maining ways, was how many repeat triggers the crew seems to have. In my next few Marcus games I'm compelled to go for a fairly high cache, SS use upgrade on choice minions and just stoning for repeat triggers everywhere.

[Pastori]

@Nikodemus An interesting point. I was also thinking that I would either go with a cache of 5 to 6, or alternatively take a soulstone miner or maybe even two.

What would you use for running schemes, or is it better to avoid marker based schemes altogether with Marcus? Although he does have leaping models, they cost a lot and tend to have other purposes in the battle..?

[Ludvig]

I'll be trying Cojo with the thick horns upgrade, it looks custom made for him. Onslaught on a soulstone user and bonus to charge attacks on a model that can charge several times per turn seems really good to me. Inhuman reflexes from neverborn also looks sick with him, you could ping-pong around and cause damage to a bunch of models. 

[Nikodemus]

26 minutes ago, Pastori said:

@Nikodemus An interesting point. I was also thinking that I would either go with a cache of 5 to 6, or alternatively take a soulstone miner or maybe even two.

What would you use for running schemes, or is it better to avoid marker based schemes altogether with Marcus? Although he does have leaping models, they cost a lot and tend to have other purposes in the battle..?

I don't mind expensive scheme runners. Blessed did a fantastic job in my one game. In my TT experience,  Manos (9ss) has been repeated MVP in Yan Lo games. Ama No Zako (10+1ss) and Dawn Serpent (9ss) have also been worth multiple VP. Thing is, if opponent is doing the denial game properly, your scheme runner will get into a fight. Alternatively, my fast, decently hitting scheme runners can intercept opposing scheme runners, kill them, and proceed to place a few scheme markers.

Heck, I've gotten VP out of Misaki, Yan Lo and Marcus doing an interact or three during a game. No complaints from me.

I will gladly use cheaper scheme runners too if I have them available (again TT, Torakage at 6ss are lovely). But I haven't been disappointed when I've tried using expensive scheme runners in 3e.

____

22 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

I'll be trying Cojo with the thick horns upgrade, it looks custom made for him. Onslaught on a soulstone user and bonus to charge attacks on a model that can charge several times per turn seems really good to me. Inhuman reflexes from neverborn also looks sick with him, you could ping-pong around and cause damage to a bunch of models. 

Few reasons I dislike it on paper:

Cojo has 1" engagement. That makes it a lot harder to get multiple charges. He's an enforcer so needs the SS cache upgrade to use stones but doesn't get Empower ability to get +flips for stone use. Same thing with Inhuman Reflexes. Blade Rush is tough to get value out of when you're a 50mm model with mv5. Enforcer so no Diving Charge.

I will give the model a few tries when I go full Marcus mode, but for now I'm reluctant based on my own theoryfaux.

What I'm instead excited about is horned Slate Ridge Mauler (and Beast Within I suppose). 2" 2/45. Marcus commands them to charge. Accomplices and they charge again. Preferably stoning for Onslaught.

[Ludvig]

Aw shit. I could have sworn he was a hench now. Being an enforcer sucks this edition, only downsides. I guess he is basically just an expensive Marcus catapult then, might put something else in my lists like an upgraded cerberus.

Has anyone found a use for the rattler btw? It looks outclassed by all the other beasts to me.

[Nikodemus]

1 minute ago, Ludvig said:

might put something else in my lists like an upgraded cerberus.

New edition. Same as the old edition

[Ludvig]

Just now, Nikodemus said:

New edition. Same as the old edition

When they lowered Cojo to 6ss in the last errata I got good use out of him! Just having a 6ss model with a 3" engagement range won me several games (3VP on hold up their forces, yes please!).

[Nikodemus]

3 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

Has anyone found a use for the rattler btw? It looks outclassed by all the other beasts to me.

Tried it. It was "ok". I'm still struggling with the edition swap nerf (9 health for 6ss was great in 2e).

My one and only list so far for reference. It was Standard, Plant Explosives with a decent amount of marker schemes. I was against an infrequent 2e player playing his second 3e game, so I avoided some (on paper) power combos and models:

• Marcus
• Jackalope
• Blessed of December
• Paul Crockett
• Sabretooth Cerberus
• Order Initiate (Magical Training)
• Order Initiate
• Razorspine Rattler
• 5 cache

I used Blessed and Rattler as my primary scheme runners. Df6 is good when you flip good. It's decently fast even without the leap (and importantly, card free). For 1ss more Blessed does the job better and with more flexibility (more mobility, more hitty, sideways "better" survivability). For same ss cost Initiates are arguably more flexible with Mutation upgrades while "good enough" when running and scheming. I wasn't unhappy but I can't say it feels worth the price tag currently.

I don't even want to compare Rattler to actual quality scheme runners in Arcanists.

I will keep using it for a while because I adore the mini. Maybe I'll luck into a golden nugget of wisdom concerning its use. Maybe I should treat it less as a schemer and more as a constricting model? No idea yet. Seems somewhat unfocused as a model. Maybe in a Scorpius crew for massed poison play? Sounds more gimmicky than effective.

[Ludvig]

I'm find it hard to justify the rattler over pretty much any other beast. I'm leaning towards two initiates and a cerberus in pretty much any Marcus list. Dedicated scheme runners seem the hardest to pick, once I get some table time I'll try a couple of flying houds I think. 

[Nikodemus]

Thing is, I think the plastic Rattler looks really good and despite having improved a lot since I painted mine, I still think it looks pretty boss on the table That thing deserves a chance!

Doesn't hurt that Marcus is my "laid back" crew. Plus I can always compensate by hiring Arcane Emissary. That thing seems nasty. And pretty thematic when I use Marcus Avatar.

[CD1248]

Rattler seems like a specific scheme piece for Take Prisoner, and Hold Up Their Forces in some cases.

In other cases it's probably outclassed, but aint nothin wrong with a model that has a specific job in mind.

[Franchute]

Only two games so far in plant explosives against Von Schill. I have been appreciating the cerberus with soulstone cache and the stealth upgrade, coupled with a soulstone miner for more stones. It's crazy how many stones I have been eating over the first two turns.

I dont dislike Cojo to throw Myranda and Marcus forward. I would like to try Crockett. He seems good on paper. How did he perform in your list @Nikodemus?

[Nikodemus]

10 hours ago, Franchute said:

I would like to try Crockett. He seems good on paper. How did he perform in your list @Nikodemus?

Very promising. I hired him as filler model but he went to the top of my to-buy list. What impressed me was the action efficiency I alluded to earlier. One shot from Crockett can potentially trigger three extra attacks. One from Coordinated Attack (needs a suit). Another from Scent of Blood ability (needs a discard and a Beast engaging the target). And here's the beautiful part: Scent of Blood attack is not generated by a trigger, ie. it can declare it's own Onslaught trigger or whatever you like. So potentially we're looking at 4 attacks per 1ap spent, from Crockett. Perfect storm, sure, but not far off of what you can easily achieve.

If you've got an SS using Beast with an Onslaught trigger (all of which you can get via upgrades), all you need is to hit (with a ranged stat5 to be fair), discard any card and spend 1ss.

I didn't use SS upgrade in my game, but I was routinely getting +2 attacks out of single Crockett AP. He's somewhat fragile but 14" range ought to help out a bit. For extra protection throw him Armoured Plates.

[MrPieChee]

What beasts do you shift Myranda into?

The wording of the in the crew builder suggests you could shift into "The Beast Within", who could then shift into Vogel, and then back into Myranda. Gives you a load of free heals, but not sure how useful it is (or if it was intended).

 

[Adran]

3 minutes ago, MrPieChee said:

What beasts do you shift Myranda into?

The wording of the in the crew builder suggests you could shift into "The Beast Within", who could then shift into Vogel, and then back into Myranda. Gives you a load of free heals, but not sure how useful it is (or if it was intended).

 

Look at the beast Within, "Slumbering Beast". Myranda can't become the beast within because the Beast within can only replace Vogel

[Ludvig]

I'd use Myranda for her buffs now that defensive stance isn't around anymore. She can give others ap, heal, cycle upgrades for Marcus' card draw and provides defensive stance. When one of your cerberuses goes down shift into another one of those for beating power. 

[MrPieChee]

55 minutes ago, Adran said:

Look at the beast Within, "Slumbering Beast". Myranda can't become the beast within because the Beast within can only replace Vogel

D'oh. Missed that bit!

[Pastori]

Just confirming, how does Marcus' card draw ability work? Is it up to one card per friend activating and discarding nearby, or something else? (Hopefully getting my first M3E game tomorrow, and would want to play him right.)

[Adran]

Once per activation After a friendly model within 6 discards a mutation card, draw a card.

It seems fairly straight forward to me. For him to draw a card a friendly model must discard a mutation within 6" and Line of sight of him, and ne must not have used the Primal domain ability yet this activation.

So it will kick off when Marcus activates if you use Guided evolution to discard an upgrade (and its not an optional ability). It will happen when a model uses Aspect of the wild. It will kick off when a model uses Adaptive evolution, or the Jackolope  uses Creature of Caerbannog during its demise eternal. But it can not net him more than 1 card per activation.

He can at most get 1 card per activation, but it is possible to get a card during an enemy activation (although much harder, the only way I can see it are if you getthe jackolope killed, or if you are allowed to take a disengaging strike with a model with Adaptive evolution)

[Pastori]

@Adran Thank you very much for quick reply. Somehow for quite some time I was under the impression that you could only trigger this once per turn (on his own activation).

[MrPieChee]

Does anyone use Rougarou? Or corrupted hounds? Rougarou look like great fast beat sticks.

As a slight aside, two Rougarou's both with Eldritch magic upgrade, with a supporting Scorpious - worth it for the hand drain to give the Scorpious an extra action? Dispell might be a little wasted, but counterspell and veil suit the Rou's well.

(I've new to Malifaux, just starting in m3e)