Trixiebelle vs Flurry

[Rostislav]

A model declares Flurry on Trixiebelle .
Trixiebelle uses "Don't fight over me boys" to change the target for the first attack action.

Where must other 2 attacks be directed - to Trixiebelle  or to a new target?

[WWHSD]

This got addressed in the 11/1/17 FAQ update.

138. Can Trixiebelle use “Don’t Fight Over Me, Boys!” (or Burt use Slippery) to redirect Attacks from a
Flurry or Charge Action?
No, as she can only redirect Attack Actions to other legal targets. Flurry and Charge set her as the necessary
targets, therefore making no other model a legal target for the resulting Attacks.

[Mr Janje]

To trixibelle, because flurry targetted her, and you can't redirect Flurry

 

[Myyrä]

10 minutes ago, icebreaker said:

Flurry targets nobody, It just gives ability to do 3 attacks to single model. Attacks targets...

"...this model may make 3 Ml Attack Actions with an AP cost of 1 against a single target."

There sure seems to be word target in there. There is no rule saying only Attack actions have targets, many tactical actions have them as well. Rules are very clear about target being one of the things you need to declare when you declare an action.

I personally think it's rather obvious you have to take the attack actions from Flurry against the target you declared. Assuming otherwise would lead to anarchy with people taking their charge attacks against anything they feel like and probably doing something even more silly as well.

[icebreaker]

Flurry targets nobody, It just gives ability to do 3 attacks to single model. Attacks targets...

[WWHSD]

I don't see anything about Flurry that has you pick a target. It just specifies that you take three 1 AP attacks against the same target. That target is set when you declare  the first attack.

[WWHSD]

17 hours ago, trikk said:

They can`t because attacks from Flurry have only one legal target so you can`t use "Don`t Fight Over Me Boys" as it specifies that you have to be a legal target to have the attack redirected.

 

Same works for charges. The only legal target for a charge-generated attack is the model charged.

Charges and Flurry are different. The Charge action has you declare a target, move towards the target and then you may take 2 1 AP attacks against it.

Flurry just lets you take 3 1 AP attacks against a single target. It doesn't declare a target as part of the action.

[WWHSD]

2 hours ago, Kadeton said:

I mean, that's basically the crux of this whole conversation. There isn't anything that suggests that the target is set when you declare the first attack, rather than when you declare Flurry, either.

In general, actions that mention a target require you to declare that target, so that's the logic I'd apply here by default... but it's very hazy wording.

It is clear that taking an attack action requires one to declare a target. If there's nothing that sets the target before the first attack action then it follows that one would be set then.

There's nothing about Flurry that requires a target. It's an action that affects the only the model taking the action.

The target being set when one takes the Flurry action requires players to be playing by rules that aren't actually written in any rule book.

Why should the interpretation that requires players to play by inferred rules be way to go with this? 

 

[WWHSD]

8 minutes ago, trikk said:

There is. You can take 3 Ml attacks against that target. Thats why you select him.

 

Which rules that are stated are not in the rulebook?

That's not how Flurry is worded though. It doesn't ever instruct you to choose a target. It doesn't use the phrase "that target". It allows the model to make three attacks against the same target.

There's nothing in the ability that requires a target to take the Flurry action. 

Having Flurry target a model requires text that doesn't exist either on the card or in the rule book.

[WWHSD]

4 hours ago, Ludvig said:

This. The wording asks for a target in the tactical so why wouldn't you choose the target when declaring the tactical?

But it doesn't ask for a target. It affects the model that took the action and allows them to take three 1AP attack so long as all of those attacks are against the same target.

I still don't see why the target declaration needs to be done during the Flurry action.

[Myyrä]

34 minutes ago, Mr Janje said:

To trixibelle, because flurry targetted her, and you can't redirect Flurry

 

Also, Trixibelle can't redirect the first attack, because only the target of the Flurry is a leagal target for the attacks.

[Myyrä]

22 minutes ago, Rostislav said:

So the question is "Does flurry target a specific model?"

If yes - then all 3 attacks only to Trixie.
If no - she can change a target.

Some of my fellow players think that Flurry doesn't choose target, because it's not written on it.

What do you mean it isn't written on it? Do you mean that the fact the ability's description doesn't start with word target?

The description of Nicodem's Reanimator, for example, doesn't start with target corpse marker, but I don't think anyone would argue it doesn't need one because it's mentioned later.

[Thottbot]

i always believed when you flurry you only designate that you will focus on one person, then when you make the first attack against a target, you THEN get locked into only attacking that person.

because of the wording "this models may take 3 MI actions against a single target" since it says single target and not just "this model may take 3 MI actions against target"

[trikk]

9 minutes ago, GrudgeMonkey said:

Correct me if I am wrong but Flurry is a tactical action. Don't Fight Over Me Boys works on attack actions. Since Flurry is a tactical it can target Trixie and does not qualify for Don't Fight Over Me Boys. However since it generates 3 (1) AP melee attacks against the target, each of those melee attacks is resolved as a separate attack and then can be shifted with Don't Fight Over Me Boys. She can use it against each of the three attacks as long as she has some poor gremlin around to get smacked instead of her.  

They can`t because attacks from Flurry have only one legal target so you can`t use "Don`t Fight Over Me Boys" as it specifies that you have to be a legal target to have the attack redirected.

 

Same works for charges. The only legal target for a charge-generated attack is the model charged.

[Sol_Sorrowsong]

36 minutes ago, icebreaker said:

Flurry targets nobody, It just gives ability to do 3 attacks to single model. Attacks targets...

This is true, but upon then declaring the first (1) ap atk action against Trix, you would be choosing a target.

As this goes, I would say the first action could be deflected to another target, but still remaining attacks would continue to target Trix.

 

"...this model may make 3 Ml Attack Actions with an AP cost of 1 against a single target."

But wouldn't this portion just be the resolved effect of completing the flurry action.  The target still has not been selected until the MI atk action is selected.

[Rostislav]

6 minutes ago, Sol_Sorrowsong said:

This is true, but upon then declaring the first (1) ap atk action against Trix, you would be choosing a target.

As this goes, I would say the first action could be deflected to another target, but still remaining attacks would continue to target Trix.

 

"...this model may make 3 Ml Attack Actions with an AP cost of 1 against a single target."

But wouldn't this portion just be the resolved effect of completing the flurry action.  The target still has not been selected until the MI atk action is selected.

It must be LEGAL target. The only legal target for this attack is Trixie

[Rostislav]

26 minutes ago, Myyrä said:

"...this model may make 3 Ml Attack Actions with an AP cost of 1 against a single target."

There sure seems to be word target in there. There is no rule saying only Attack actions have targets, many tactical actions have them as well. Rules are very clear about target being one of the things you need to declare when you declare an action.

I personally think it's rather obvious you have to take the attack actions from Flurry against the target you declared. Assuming otherwise would lead to anarchy with people taking their charge attacks against anything they feel like and probably doing something even more silly as well.

Thanks, I agree with your clarification =)

[Rostislav]

So the question is "Does flurry target a specific model?"

If yes - then all 3 attacks only to Trixie.
If no - she can change a target.

Some of my fellow players think that Flurry doesn't choose target, because it's not written on it.

[trikk]

2 hours ago, icebreaker said:

Flurry targets nobody, It just gives ability to do 3 attacks to single model. Attacks targets...

That seems to be a matter of interpretation but it says "target" which, as Myyra said, suggest you have to declare one during Flurry and not during the first attack.

[Ludvig]

Flurry definitely has a target. If the action tells you to target something you need to assign that target when declaring an action.

[looka]

there is also a word target. Should I target someone in this tactical action? how many duels should I go through under the aura of barbaros? 2 per enemy ? maybe you'll start reading what's on the card written rather than rip one word out of context

you declare a flurry under the aura of barbaros and without passing the first duel you lose all attacks?

[Ludvig]

7 minutes ago, looka said:

there is also a word target. Should I target someone in this tactical action? how many duels should I go through under the aura of barbaros? 2 per enemy ? maybe you'll start reading what's on the card written rather than rip one word out of context

you declare a flurry under the aura of barbaros and without passing the first duel you lose all attacks?

I hope you are just trolling. This action doesn't have a target because of how the word is used. I will ammend my previous post to reflect what I meant.

And yes, you need to pass Barbaros' aura for your flurry and for every single attack after it.

[TeddyBear]

so, with models like marcus or dreamer it's the same thing? (they can't redirect flurry?) or no?

And rasputina? (sorry but i'm confused as always )

thanks

[Angelshard]

27 minutes ago, looka said:

there is also a word target. Should I target someone in this tactical action? how many duels should I go through under the aura of barbaros? 2 per enemy ? maybe you'll start reading what's on the card written rather than rip one word out of context

you declare a flurry under the aura of barbaros and without passing the first duel you lose all attacks?

Uhh you do realize there's a difference between declaring a target and randomizing targets when shooting into engagement right?

The "here we go!" Action doesn't declare a target when you declare the action. 

Randomizing into engagement if you have a symbol is something completely different 

[trikk]

10 minutes ago, TeddyBear said:

so, with models like marcus or dreamer it's the same thing? (they can't redirect flurry?) or no?

And rasputina? (sorry but i'm confused as always )

thanks

Dreamer can because its a defensive trigger and the target that suffers the effects doesn't have to be a legal target (if the attacker doesn't have LoS to the Daydream you can still make him the target of the trigger)

 

I don't get the Rasputina thing

[Myyrä]

26 minutes ago, TeddyBear said:

And rasputina? (sorry but i'm confused as always )

Rasputina's Df trigger works just fine because FAQ says that ending the activation also ends the current action. Not really related to this question though.