Doppelganger and Changelings

[Whut]

Rants and Ramblings:

 

Doppelganger is constantly considered an auto-take for many people that play our faction. But now we have a new choice, Changelings.

Since Wave 3 came out, I've been trying to fit changelings everywhere. I would have 1 in every list, sometimes 2. The (0) is fantastic for getting extra movement to place markers/get in engagement range. They can copy all our best attacks like Nekima and Teddy, although at Ml4, without dumping a card for it. Theyre cheap. They can also copy masters' actions.

Doppelganger on the other hand, needs a 7 but can get a Tome trigger to take the action immediately, though this suffers from the Black Joker creeping up sometimes. It copies at a much longer range, and keeps the high stat if the action comes with one. She also provides Ill Omens, which is AMAZING in a faction that often brings at least one heavy damage piece (Teddy, Nekima, Mature, Chompy, McTavish)  so you can ensure initiative on crucial turns when you need to charge or escape. This has synergy with you wanting these same expensive models to copy from. On top of all of this, she's moderately tanky with Manipulate 14 and has Don't Mind Me, for just 7 cost.

 

My issue comes when wanting to include these options. Doppelganger is nearly the price of 2 changelings, but Ill omens is such a powerful ability with Nekima or Teddy that I don't want to leave without taking her. Like I said, she's basically an auto-include for most people, and I'm starting to agree with that idea. I'm hard pressed to find a better value for 7ss.

So that leaves Changelings. 4 stone models that (with some careful positioning) can have 3" melee threat with a 4/5/6 damage spread, and have a (0) action that nearly mirrors Nimble. Amazing. Incredible. But this comes with a few issues:

1) You have a lot of dependence on your heavy hitters. Sure, you can take Nekima, Doppelganger, and 2 Changelings, but then what if Nekima dies? Now you have a bunch of models that have to scramble to copy enemy actions. Therefore the more "copiers" you include, the more things to copy you should include, for redundancy. But this is a lot of points. Nekima, Mr Graves, Doppelganger, and 2 Changelings already defines nearly your whole list at 36ss of models.

2) They compete with other 4ss models. Depleted are INCREDIBLE for holding points and jamming up your opponent. Terror Tots are great scheme runners.

3) You get more Manipulative/Perfect Camouflage overlap.

4) If changelings want to copy something like Howard Langston, they're going to die. Copying and/or being near enemies that have weak or moderate damage 4 spells death for the changeling, because their only decent defense is Manipulative, which can be cheated.

How do you use changelings? Aside from spamming snipers, because that is pretty self-explanatory. I can see on paper that they are utterly fantastic, but in practice they often end up doing very little for me, usually just following things around and dropping scheme markers (and getting an occasional pair of attacks). Much of the time I feel like I would have been better served with a Depleted that could run into my opponent's crew and just jam things up and prevent charges and such, ESPECIALLY with Dreamer because he needs that buffer to prevent alpha strikes while he gets the summoning and healing engine working. My Doppelganger just does more, especially providing more board control (because she can sit 8" away from what she has to copy, she can threaten more of the board, unlike Changelings who are more like doubling down on an already scary threat due to often staying in base contact with what they copy due to their (0)).

Tl:dr:

This is obviously an issue with being spoiled for choice. These "copiers" are such amazing options that I'm stuck between an amazing choice and an amazing choice.

How do you plan to take advantage of either changelings or dopple? Do you prefer one over the other?

Also, as a side note, I'm thinking of neat things changelings can do:

 

Cheap Freikorps Trapper Spam

Copy Graves' push (but needs a 10)

Copy Zoraida's Bewitch (needs an 8)

Copy Widow Weaver's Exhale Terror - the horror duel is the same, and Web Markers make the Ca4 more relevant.

Follow Envy around. Envy walks, (0) focus, shoots. Changeling (0) follows envy, focuses, and shoots.

Copy Pandora's attack and attack her. If you fail (Ca4 vs Wp7 plus cheating) Pandora gets a free push. If you somehow succeed, Pandora takes no damage (because Pandora herself has no damage track and neither does the changeling)

 

[Phinn]

Unfortunately, I do not have any experience with Changelings, but you have to keep in mind that they can be summoned by Mysterious Emissary.

[Ludvig]

They don't really do the dopplegangers cheat initiative, give everyone negatives to survive or interact while engaged which is a big part of what makes her good. They do copy stuff so that's nice but I don't see them as filling the same role at all.

[Ryin]

Why choose when you can take both? 

Also, Pandora only gets a push from enemy models.

And I don't necessarily consider the Blink a gimmie every turn either. You need a 7+ which isn't exactly low.

however, I DO think changelings are pretty awesome.

[PeregrineFalcon]

I take them both consistently. Need to try them more with Pandora but really like them overall. Use Dopple and pretty much every list, and Changelings have shown up a lot (almost always) in my Collodi lists.

[4554551//]

Changelings seem like a neat thing to summon. But the cards required to make them work are a big drain. Doppelganger still reigns supreme. The versatility she can provide that Changelings can't is insane. 

[tunagami]

Changelings seem like a neat thing to summon. But the cards required to make them work are a big drain. Doppelganger still reigns supreme. The versatility she can provide that Changelings can't is insane. 

For 3 more stones, I would hope the Doppelganger is better than a Changeling ;-)

[4554551//]

Changelings seem like a neat thing to summon. But the cards required to make them work are a big drain. Doppelganger still reigns supreme. The versatility she can provide that Changelings can't is insane. 

For 3 more stones, I would hope the Doppelganger is better than a Changeling ;-)

I'd take her over 2 changelings in a heart beat, but I get the joke haha

[Masquer]

I prefer Doppelganger by herself.

[Jeebus]

I plan on trying out a crop of changelings and Lazarus with Collodi this Sunday. In a perfect world you can get a total of 16 grenade launcher shots off. (Utilizing My Will and Surprize). 

 

Another one that is kind of silly: copying a lucky effigy's crusty blade. It actually gets better with the Ml4! 

[Clyde_Davis]

In terms of copying abilities I think the Changelings are far more worth it, as it's a passive ability, even though the stat on the attack is 4 with no suits.. I'm looking to try 2 Changelings with a guild rifleman and Dashel in my next Lucius game.. 

[Ludvig]

43 minutes ago, Clyde_Davis said:

In terms of copying abilities I think the Changelings are far more worth it, as it's a passive ability, even though the stat on the attack is 4 with no suits.. I'm looking to try 2 Changelings with a guild rifleman and Dashel in my next Lucius game.. 

The doppleganger is so much more than a copybot. She adds cheatable initiative flips, don't mind me and that other (0) that can make her really tough to shift.

 

What are you planning on using to trigger the Changeling's pounce-thingie?

[PeregrineFalcon]

Trappers are always a nice combo with changelings  

[Clyde_Davis]

20 hours ago, Ludvig said:

The doppleganger is so much more than a copybot. She adds cheatable initiative flips, don't mind me and that other (0) that can make her really tough to shift.

 

What are you planning on using to trigger the Changeling's pounce-thingie?

In terms of copying the Changelings are just less resource intensive that the Dop, but she does surpass them with her other abilities.

For their pounce, in terms of Lucius, not really looking to use it that much.. However, a Changeling running in Neph list of Barbaros or a Mature, exploiting their push shenanigans may be quite fun ?

[Ludvig]

I'm thinking a push or lure might come in handy to include in the list. Free AP aren't to be sniffed at.

[lusciousmccabe]

Do they copy any type of action? Because if so they might be nice with a Beckoner since it comes with Lure and a ranged attack together. 

[Ludvig]

I think it's only attacks but they could copy both actions of a beckoner. TÓn second though, they don't copy the suits of the original action so I think the lure of beckoners becomes impossible to actually do.

 A popular trick seems to be getting focus on the changeling and luring something so they can copy a freikorp trapper and shoot 36" for free.

[feagaur]

If you're worried about paying for changelings as well as a doppelganger, why not take the mysterious emissary?

It'll give you more fun for the doppelganger to copy and spits out changelings for you to use!

Now to find an avatar I can use as a proxy!

[Ceodoc]

Any ideas on Changeling proxies please?

 

[Philosfr]

2 minutes ago, Ceodoc said:

Any ideas on Changeling proxies please?

 

I painted up some old metal Stolen to use for Changelings. White hair and silver eyes makes them look sufficiently creepy! I am sorta loath to switch to the real models when they come out

[Ceodoc]

I understand that we cannot expect the Emissaries until after GENcon, I suppose the Changelings will be the same.

So I am looking to build both.

I fancy the below for Changelings with new heads, just got to find some heads now.

 

[lusciousmccabe]

I would just run them with those heads

[Jeebus]

23 hours ago, Philosfr said:

I painted up some old metal Stolen to use for Changelings. White hair and silver eyes makes them look sufficiently creepy! I am sorta loath to switch to the real models when they come out

I used metal stolen for mine as well. But I drilled out the faces so they have a hollow shell like look. Gave them 40k Harlequin masks for extra spookiness. 

[Ceodoc]

I find it very curious that wave 3 models take so long to come out?

If you think of the upcoming tournament scene, the W3 models players need/use will be proxied or such.

How does the planning of releasing the book but no models for what could turn out to be most of the tournament year add up to sales?

I am going to my first tournament in 2 months, I will be making any W3 models I need, that seems a missed trick for Wyrd to me.

Because maybe later on this year I will just stick with my proxies.

What am I missing?

[RobertSirc]

16 minutes ago, Ceodoc said:

I find it very curious that wave 3 models take so long to come out?

These are the best NB models in the new book (imho). Wyrd know this they are in no hurry to release them.