CapnBloodbeard Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 Just a thought I was playing with - what do people think of the idea of using Rats in a non-Hamelin crew? I know they pretty much can't do anything themselves - blighted is useless with rats alone, and the intention is to have the rats as rats and not manifest into a Rat King. But, how would they go in, say, a von Schill or Viks (considering buying Tara too) crew just for the sake of annoying the opponent? Tie an opponent up in engagement (especially as vS can easily be out activated), allowing other minions to deliver schemes unimpeded? I have some Hamelin box sets, and while I don't really intend on going down the Hamelin path I'm wondering if I should grab the rats out of one.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 I suppose for 2SS they're one way of expending AP and setting the scene before your heavy hitters have to action, but on the other hand they don't do much so you're effectively just using them to burn AP. I think I'd take Void Wretches in preference. I wonder about using Nix in a non-Hamelin crew myself. With his Hollow upgrade you can protect units around him from blast, aura and pulse damage, and infectious melodies can make a minion or peon fast for a turn at the cost of them dying at the end of it. At 11SS fully upgraded he's a bit pricey though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey_C Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 But, how would they go in, say, a von Schill or Viks (considering buying Tara too) crew just for the sake of annoying the opponent? Tie an opponent up in engagement (especially as vS can easily be out activated), allowing other minions to deliver schemes unimpeded? Unless you can surround your opponent's model rat's can't actually tie anything up. They could be useful in Interference to engage models that have already activated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 The Rat Pack is very useful in any Outcast crew for a turn of guaranteed out-activation (one Obedient Wretch and two Rats to start, the Wretch summons two more Rats on her activation, the four Rats each activate - careful with your placement to avoid voltronning too early - and the last one forms a Rat King, the Rat King turns into a Rat Catcher and a Rat, for a grand total of 8 activations at a cost of 8 stones). However, if your intention is not to turn the Rats into a Rat King, then no, I don't think the Rats will ever really pull their weight. They can't keep a target in melee, can't do anything useful scheme-wise by themselves, are a liability when certain schemes are in play, and can't absorb enough damage to be worthwhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishSausage Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 I met a brilliant player last gencon who used wretch to make rats off of her own models, then combine them. Its quite a nice card burner and delays the risk of moving your key pieces in position Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lusciousmccabe Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 I don't think they're really worth hiring other than to guarantee a turn one Rat King like Kadeton mentioned. Obedient Wretch and Ratcatchers are both fairly solid models outside of a Hamelin Crew that summon them though so that's an option. They also make a good Killjoy Delivery system with Nix and Infectious Melodies, but it's probably not worth the investment unless you're bringing those models (and possibly a Ratcatcher) already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathnard Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 I met a brilliant player last gencon who used wretch to make rats off of her own models, then combine them. Its quite a nice card burner and delays the risk of moving your key pieces in position Unless someone else was using the Wretch/Rat combo, that player was probably me. A wretch plus three rats became almost an auto-include in my Outcast crews last year. Kadeton sumarised how it worked well enough - For 10SS you get something like 8-10 activations in the first turn for the cost of one crow card (or two if you aim for a second summoned rat, though I don't like to rely on getting that 2nd card). That's more than enough to out-activate most enemy crews before you even start moving your "important" models. Plus it nets you a Rat Catcher or Rat King. Both are fantastic for scheme marker shenanigans - something the Outcasts tend to otherwise lack. For those interested, I wrote a blog article about it (http://rathnard.blogspot.com.au/2014/09/wretched-rats.html). It's also in Wyrd Chronicles 14. I'd absolutely recommend grabbing the above models for anyone playing Outcasts (hopefully they'll be out in plastic soon!). If you just want to throw in a single Rat or two however, I wouldn't recommend it.IMO their strength is the ease at which other models summon them and their ability to merge into more useful models. So if you're not taking them for that, a 4SS Void Wretch is going to be more useful almost every time. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 I have an Obedient Wretch and blister of Rat Catchers in the mail at the moment. I also have the Hamelin box set (and an extra Nix) so three rats there. Unfortunately more rats are hard to come by at the moment, since it doesn't look like Malifaux are making them at the moment and I might end up having to use some third party models. I'm not sure how to represent the Rat King. Would four rats tail to tail on a 50mm base do it? A plastic box that provides an Obedient Wretch, two Rat Catchers, two Rat Kings, and eight rats would probably sell quite well if anyone wanted to pass the idea along to the sculptors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathnard Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 I have an Obedient Wretch and blister of Rat Catchers in the mail at the moment. I also have the Hamelin box set (and an extra Nix) so three rats there. Unfortunately more rats are hard to come by at the moment, since it doesn't look like Malifaux are making them at the moment and I might end up having to use some third party models. I'm not sure how to represent the Rat King. Would four rats tail to tail on a 50mm base do it? My rats are magnetised so I can move them from 30mm to 40mm bases at will, which works quite nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 Unfortunately more rats are hard to come by at the moment, since it doesn't look like Malifaux are making them at the moment and I might end up having to use some third party models. Distract a Skaven player with some cheese and grab a handful of Giant Rats, he won't notice that they are gone, then put them on 30 mm bases. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimTullis Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 I'm not sure how to represent the Rat King. Would four rats tail to tail on a 50mm base do it? I made two Rat Kings. Each has 1 blister of Malifaux Rats (3 rats) placed facing outwards and with tails twisted together. I also magnetized the bottoms of all my figs, and made some Large Bases that have a magnet on top. If I form a Rat King I just stick one of the Sac'd Rats on a big base. If you truly can't find Malifaux Rats, Skaven Giant rats are almost big enough. And clearly represent the Malifaux Rats well. I've got a blister of GW fantasy Bat Swarms coming to create some Winged Plague models from the Wave 3 Beta. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Warploque Miniatures make amazing Rats that fit extremely well with the Malifaux ones:http://www.warploqueminiatures.com/#!product/prd14/3121536651/bilge-rats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimTullis Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Wow, those are some nice Rats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Well there are a lot of rats incoming on Gencon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paxmiles Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Leveticus with Pariah of Iron can take the Ice Golem, which can "toss" Ht1 models (like rats) to do actual damage (rat "tossed" up to 10" and if it collides with another model, models in base take a TN12 Df duel or take 2 damage). Rats are the cheapest Ht1 models I've seen, so just including a single one has merit as something to toss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanilla_Dice Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 The only problem you can have wuth the obedient wretch summon ball is the fact that you need the crow to pull it off...... i've lost count of the amoint of times that turn 1&2 i haven't had a single crow in hand and my wretch just walks around with nothing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniello_s Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 She can always sacrifice herself for 2 rats so when you have previously hired to others then you will end up at least with one Rat King. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanilla_Dice Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 In which case why not just hire 4 rats for more activations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniello_s Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Because if you are lucky you can summon two Rats with Obedient Wretch, then summon Rat King who will sacrifice himself for a Rat Catcher and Rat. Next turn you can try summon at least one Rat with Obedient Wretch and on the third turn you can sacrifice her to get 2 Rats and finally another Rat King. I'll see how it works once I get Brotherhood of the Rat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lusciousmccabe Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) In which case why not just hire 4 rats for more activations?The obedient wretch plus 2 rats actually gives you an extra activation over 4 rats, since you get to activate the two rats she summons after sacrificing her. She'll usually get to summon a couple of rats most games. If nothing else is competing for the low/medium crows your luck has to be quite bad not to get them in the first couple of turns. I'd say it's pretty annoying though if you take her for that express purpose and don't have any other way of getting rats. Edited November 10, 2015 by lusciousmccabe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanilla_Dice Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Yeah i've seen people use the trick with viks.... hide em way up the back and puposefully burn through activations to allow a perfect viks slingshot..... leaves a sour taste in my mouth when i see it.... but i know it happens...... Different strokes for different folks i guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paxmiles Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 Leveticus with Pariah of Iron can take the Ice Golem, which can "toss" Ht1 models (like rats) to do actual damage (rat "tossed" up to 10" and if it collides with another model, models in base take a TN12 Df duel or take 2 damage). Rats are the cheapest Ht1 models I've seen, so just including a single one has merit as something to toss.I love Ice Golem....The Malifaux Rats aren't nearly as appealing as the Rat Kings, which are also Ht 1. And even there, there is much debating regarding the best Ht1 model to throw. Remember that if you've got pariah of iron up, then you have a lot of Ht1 models that you could throw.Beyond that, Toss is a (1) tactical action, and Ice Golem is a Melee Expert. Throwing things means likely not being in melee range and not moving towards melee. 5 turns, 10 tosses. I love pariah of iron and Leveticus, but tossing rats for just 2 damage is likely a waste. There are just too many other Ht1 models that benefit the crew in addition to being potential ammunition. For a tossed option, I'd look into one of those models with a pulse, aura, or base contact effect that aids your crew. In example, a tossed steam arachnid (since you already have the Pariah of Iron for the Ice Golem) has "Latch On" which makes enemy models in base have -1 Df. So, I toss the spider at an enemy, they take a Df duel, which they take at -1 because they are in base contact. And on top of that, the spider has armor, which reduces the toss damage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.