Sonnia Criid. i do not understand

[Justin]

39 Masters.

[papa smurf]

Ahem 33. Gremlins aren't a faction so their "masters" do not exist.

Is this joke not funny anymore?

[Tuttleboy]

1 thing to remember is that if you absolutely need to stick something with a bit of burning is that you can target your own models and do all cheating. If you end up cheating this to severe, don't forget about Pyrokinesis letting you place that 1st blast 2" away. 3 50 mm blast markers means you're reaching out about 8" from the original target, probably more depending on base size of said target and placement of blasts.

 

I like her, but am not a pro with her. Quite honestly I don't use her unless I'm running into Arcanists or lots of kill stuff for VPs in the pool.

[dgraz]

I agree with all of this. In fact, this is the exact crew I normally run with, except with the Malifaux Child instead of the Flame, and Francisco instead of Sam. I haven't run the Watcher with her yet, but I can see what you are saying, maybe I'll give it a spin.

I have taken 'Cisco a few times....but only if I have a strong idea that I'll be facing something super fast like the Viks or Marcus.....he's far, far from an auto-include.....generally I've been pretty happy with Sam. I've also played Papa with her, and that's not bad, but not needed.

With my style of not really using the Flame Walls, I haven't felt the desire to try the Child. My style has been effective thus far, maybe if I hit a brick wall I'll alter my play style and try it out.

[Justin]

I just deleted a lot of posts.

 

Topics, people. Stay on them.

[The Zinc Lich]

I have taken 'Cisco a few times....but only if I have a strong idea that I'll be facing something super fast like the Viks or Marcus.....he's far, far from an auto-include.....generally I've been pretty happy with Sam. I've also played Papa with her, and that's not bad, but not needed.

With my style of not really using the Flame Walls, I haven't felt the desire to try the Child. My style has been effective thus far, maybe if I hit a brick wall I'll alter my play style and try it out.

 

Probably a meta difference. I find most cagey opponents will slingshot something fast and disposable into melee with Sonnia before making important activations to keep Sonnia from dropping flame walls or just shooting something off the table. While Sonnia plays a fine attrition game thanks to Reincarnation, she isn't known for excellent activation control, and making an initiative flip after the enemy leaped a Necropunk into melee with Sonnia when you had no activations left to extract her from it is sad times.

 

Francisco is cheap, accelerates Sonnia, and improves her defenses, but his real value, in my mind, is Enfrentante a Mi. Can't tie a good witch down.

[papa smurf]

Expert Sleuth. Is by far one of the best guild upgrades around. Take 2 and Call me in the morning.

Also I find it hard to be out activated when my opponent is lacking in models.

[Martel]

I had a sneaky suspicion that I was over-thinking things.

 

The guy who ran that particular Misaki game has since admitted that 90% of that game was his amazing flips. It was so crazy. he never failed smoke and shadows, and kept all his guys on the outer edge to grab power ritual. by the time I could get my pieces moving toward him, he'd vanish again. it was unbelievable. lol

So what I'm getting out of this is....rematch? 

[NoHero]

One thing to consider is that opponents declare faction before building their lists. So if an opponent declares outcasts it might be a good idea to not take Sonnia in case they take Von Schill/Freikorps. It can be a frustrating game because not only the ability to ignore blasts, but also the trunk can take off burning.

[dgraz]

Also I find it hard to be out activated when my opponent is lacking in models.

That's exactly how I feel when I play Sonnia.........I AM the guy that needed at least 2 boxes of Stalkers. I think I own 7....and I've had them all on the table at once....so, yeah.

[MasterDisaster]

Dude, seriously, no. It's not.

 

It's really super good but it is not the most broken thing in this game.

 

Sonnia's Double Flamewall trick is really good but it's not any worse than Mech Rider with Colette, Bishop with Tara, Kirai Summoning 2 Hanged on Turn 2 and healing them up fully, McMourning Poison Bomb with 2 Belles + Decaying aura. Wyrd know how to balance out the game.... EVERYTHING IS FILTHY!

[trikk]

I love Sam, but I don't play him with Sonnia any more. He has a great damage output, but he also really appreciates having some cards and defensive tech to himself that Sonnia just can't spare. He has a permanent home, along with some adopted Stalkers, in a lot of my McMourning lists; the guild does not have a single model that deals more damage per attack than Sam does, and that makes him top a top quality option for McMourning's Precise buff. He's also a good elite pick for Lucius if you are bringing Stalkers, as What Lackeys Are For goes a long way in getting him to Rapid Fire locations.

 

A very neat trick Dirial mentioned is Doppelganger + Samuel with Witch Hunt. You can try Witch Hunt 5 times a turn which accounts to possible Burning 20

[Dirial]

A very neat trick Dirial mentioned is Doppelganger + Samuel with Witch Hunt. You can try Witch Hunt 5 times a turn which accounts to possible Burning 20

 

Only works wit Lucius though, but it's glorious. Even better if Samael can then shoot at the burning targets. Works the other way around, too.

[jonahmaul]

While Sonnia plays a fine attrition game thanks to Reincarnation, she isn't known for excellent activation control, and making an initiative flip after the enemy leaped a Necropunk into melee with Sonnia when you had no activations left to extract her from it is sad times

With Sam hanging around it is not going to be difficult to remove that Necropunk before Sonnia's next activation.

[Adran]

I honestly wonder how you deal with Ashes and dust with that crew. Your stalkers become aboms which might become stalkers again sure but just in general a&d hitting Sonnia is one of the worst things you can wish for.

from experience, by killing everything else. Ashes and Dust probably only kills 1 stalker a turn. If he turns them into Abominations they very quickly become stalkers again.

So he is better not generating Aboms.

Sonnia can kill Ashes and Dust fairly easily.  As Can Sam, so you can't really leave Ashes and Dust too close to them before they activate. Yes, Ashes can make a mess of either of them given a chance, Its not taht easy. And if they are in the middle of the table, when Ashes comes for them, then it won't get to reform on the same turn if it gets killed.

[MasterDisaster]

Ahem 33. Gremlins aren't a faction so their "masters" do not exist.

Is this joke not funny anymore?

 

It's still hilarious!

 

Stupid Gremlins 

[Jewomie]

So what I'm getting out of this is....rematch? 

Of course it does!!!

[Therril_83]

I feel a lot of people dismiss Sonnias interest in burning a bit too fast..  Sure, it's not strictly required, as it is with Kaeris, but if you know or anticipate that you will be firing into cover a lot with Sonnia, then putting out burning can of course be really helpful, it's just quite as easy to do with Guild in my opinion.

 

I prefer doing it with either the Freikorps Specialist or the Purifying Flame.

Freikorps Specialist has the advantage of also ignoring cover, and having the trigger both built in and affecting all models damaged, not just the target. Downside is that he's quite expensive, and not overly resilient, although not as bad as Samael.

Purifying Flame has the advantage of being like a cheaper Witchling Stalker on a suger rush. It's incorporeal and has a slightly better walk than the stalker, and it's charge is really high. It's not as good at dealing damage as the stalker, but comparable in dealing out burning.

 

I don't rate Samael personally, but I know others do and he has been discussed already so I'm not going there.

 

Stalkers are great for so many reasons, you can never go wrong with a couple. I tend to not take too many, but a few is awesome. And using reincarnation or not is a playstyle thing, I don't think it's bad but it's also not required. I use it sometimes and it's great fun.

 

 

I also want to give a tip to a tactic I don't feel has been given enough light in this thread, and that is the tactic of bouncing fire. There are two parts to this, and number 1 is to make a habit of really knowing your opposing models Df value and defensive abilities (most importantly Hard to Wound, the other abilities aren't as important in this case). A model with low Df and no defensive ability, standing close (ie within 2"+2blasts, roughly 6") to a model that is harder to hit, for example a master or a Rider-model, are just begging to be the bounce target of a fireball. if it has a Df of 4, all you need is a card with value 1 higher than your opponent to be able to cheat with Ca9.

 

The 2nd part of this is to consider the value of shooting your own guys. Try to see possible lanes of blasting that your opponent might not expect. A Guild Hound running up and standing 3" away from the opponent's master, big support model or sniper is going to be a pretty clear blast target and will likely be dealt with (might still be a good idea, if you can divert their attention), but your bigger model that happens to stand next to three or four models might not be so obvious. It could still be worth sacrificing a 10ss model to blast three 5 pointers. Or even better if it's a model that has some kind of damage mitigation, like a Peacekeeper with armor+2, or a Pale Rider with his defensive trigger, then it will still do the full damage on the blasts but your model will still be around to be a threat.

 

This can be resource intensive, since you might need to cheat both attack, defense and damage (especially if you use a Peacekeeper, then you need 11+ diff between attack and Df to cheat), but it's one of those things that is worth remembering. Other models with blast damage can make use of this too, but noone else can reach 6" of blast-threat with only cheating down a 6 for damage, and noone else can reach Ca9 to do it with.

[Jewomie]

Good points all around. This thread has me excited to try her out again.

I've never been so good at shooting my own stuff. I got a friend to give up on the game once when shooting papa loco in 1.5 and killing 2/3rds of his crew. I felt like a jerk and have mostly stayed away. but hey, if that's what Sonnia likes, then i'll certainly give it a try. I mean, if nothing else, it makes randomizing targets less scary. haha

[admiralvorkraft]

For what it's worth this spread inspired a little mirror match last night. I played defensive/control Sonnia and my opponent ran Papa's Favorite Box, Dashel, Guild Guard, and Stalkers (the theory being activation control and plenty of cheap blast bouncing targets, I think). The strategy and schemes we flipped weren't Sonnia friendly (Squatter's Rights, Assassinate, FfM, Protect Territory, Outflank) and I'm definitely more experienced with Sonnia than my opponent which makes a huge difference.

 

That being said, his Sonnia didn't do a whole lot more damage than mine and my more independent models allowed me to more flexibly go after the strategy/schemes. The game ended after turn 6 and I won 9-2. Does that mean my way is better? Obviously not, but it does mean that Sonnia can be viably played defensively (and without the stupid Child I might add. Hate, hate, hate that model).

[jonahmaul]

 The strategy and schemes we flipped weren't Sonnia friendly (Squatter's Rights, Assassinate, FfM, Protect Territory, Outflank)

In this situation why take Sonnia?  You can decide on your Master after you flip strategy/schemes (unless there was a particular reason for both choosing Sonnia in advance).  Can't see any reason she wouldn't do very well at the strat/scheme pool though.  Make sure you have enough minions to turn Squat Marks and get nearish to the middle with Sonnia and Blast anything that tries to go near the three markers around the centre.  Frame for Murder is pretty easy to score from as is Protect.  Sonnia can have Ca9 which means stacking damage onto a Master and Guild have some decent hard hitters so Assassinate isn't too hard either though of course it's very dependent on which Master you are facing.

[Jewomie]

I got the feeling that the point was to play Sonnia vs Sonnia, and the strat pool just wasn't in their interest.

I think you're touching on the other issue I kind of have with her. Figuring out what she is good at, and what I am good at with her, when it comes to strats and schemes. I ran into this with Hoffman. I think he suffers a little more since I feel like it is harder to build his crew to both schemes and strats, and still retain the things he wants to have around. (which should get better as Peacekeeper/Ryle/Wardens/extra watchers come out) With Sonnia, this is less of an issue from what I gather.

I think this is why I have historically done better with masters like Lady J, Misaki, and McCabe who care a lot less about what I hire since their synergy is there, but isn't reliant on certain models. And I tried to play Sonnia like she was dependent on certain things when (as you all have pointed out) she really isn't.

[papa smurf]

How is Sonnia bad at squatters? I guess I should rephase why is Sonnia flipping markers unless everthing with 14+ inches is not dead walled off or irrelevant.

Her crew is what does things. She just makes their crew Not do things.

Also this trick works for all guild. Clockwork trap. Austringer. Use the austringer deliver orders to the trap to flip squat markers. I think Sonnia is excellent for squtters. She can guard 2-3 (met-tc) but she be fun. Regardless.

[dgraz]

I got the feeling that the point was to play Sonnia vs Sonnia, and the strat pool just wasn't in their interest.

Well, he said:

 

The strategy and schemes we flipped weren't Sonnia friendly (Squatter's Rights, Assassinate, FfM, Protect Territory, Outflank) 

The 'weren't Sonnia friendly' part seems pretty clear. Though I don't know why? I'd take my above list for that any day of the week and twice on Sunday. 

 

Protect Territory is the easiest Scheme in the game.....you can easily drop two Scheme Markers for Sonnia to stand between....that's 3VP right there.

 

Even if they both took the Counterspell upgrade, Flameburst doesn't have a suit in the TN, so other than not getting the trigger they could still blast each other (and her Wp is high enough to give the on attack), so Assassinate is viable with that and depends on which Sonnia can get the drop on the other, but if one crew gets the upper hand for a turn with more models, you could also gun for Sonnia with the crew.

 

FFM only cares if you have support or killy masters.....Sonnia is definitely killy, so that's doable....and with the speed of the Witchling Handler (and how much faster she makes Stalkers) combined with the Watcher, Squatter's is totally doable. I'm not a fan of Outflank in general, and I don't like taking ALitS with Squatter's, but that still leaves three very viable Schemes.

[admiralvorkraft]

I should maybe explain; yes we decided on a mirror match in advance and then just ran with what was generated. I don't like taking Sonnia when FFM or Assassinate is in the pool because I feel that she gives those points up very easily. Squatter's is a fine strategy for her, especially in Flank which is what we flipped to deploy, but I would rather take Lucius/McCabe/McMourning for it, I find Outflank to be generally rough and Sonnia does nothing to make it easier. Of course everybody loves Protect Territory, but that pretty much goes without saying.

 

Anyway, like I said all we were trying to do was try out a couple of very different playstyles with the same master. Which I think we did.