Shuffling during a turn etiquette?

[Willy]

I was not sure if this is an actual rules question, as I can't find a rule saying one should not shuffle during a turn, but this has come up at our FLGS.

After the turn starts, shuffling, drawing etc completed, we have a player who constantly shuffles and reshuffles their deck. They are not shuffling in their discard pile, just handling the deck over and over. The rules state that after a player shuffles their opponent should have a chance to cut the deck, but no one has asked. No one thinks the player is neccesarily cheating, but I suppose that is a possibility in some folks' minds. The shuffling bothers some players, but not others, and I was wondering if this had come up in other venues and whether there were protocols or game etiquette guidelines that we may have missed. Should the bothered players just ask to cut every single time (20-30 times a turn), ignore it, or something else?

[zFiend]

I think he just shuffles his deck at the start of the turn and doesn't shuffle it unless he runs out of cards, then he reshuffles the deck and leaves it be. Not sure is there a rule on that though.

 

Why is he shuffling it? 

[PeregrineFalcon]

I would consider this bad etiquette and probably would avoid playing with this person. 

 

Just the fact that he is touching his deck after a turn starts is rude. Sure I've knocked my deck and reshuffled, but some people when shuffling show bottom of decks and if that happens and I notice it I mention it to my opponent. If the person was shuffling constantly I'd ask them to stop. It also seems like a way to distract/slow the game down. This would be a big no no for me and the people I enjoy playing with.

[SpiralngCadavr]

The only time it would matter in any practical way is if either side has an ability to see cards or place them back on the deck in an order... however, because of that, I'd argue that it's a good practice to avoid shuffling, so that doesn't come up as a problem.

[rancor709]

You shuffle draw and then you don't shufile again till you run out of cards or the turn ends. Not correct play on etiquette and I would address it.

[The Godlyness]

Times you allowed to shuffle (sans butter fingers)

1. Shuffle Discard Piles

Players shuffle their Discard Piles back into their Fate Decks. Players should set aside their Control Hands so they do not accidentally shuffle their hand back into the deck as well. Page 34 big book.

When the player would draw or flip from her Fate Deck and there are no cards left, the player shuffles her Discard Pile and uses it to refill her Fate Deck.page 24 big book.

Otherwise he is technically cheating. Just let him know no touching.

[valhallan42nd]

While it gives an appearance of impropriety, I don't think it would have any effect on the random distribution of cards. As an opponent, I would insist on a cut, however.

[Tuttleboy]

His deck shouldn't be shuffled unless something requires him to do it. If he needs to fiddle with something suggest he use another deck of cards.

[Math Mathonwy]

My suggestion:

Address the player like this: "Sorry, this might sound silly, but I'm sorta distracted by you shuffling your deck. Would you mind not doing it? Thank you, much obliged" and then smile

No reason to start flinging accusations of cheating or whatever. Just talk it out.

[rythos42]

Sounds like a nervous habit. I've got a friend who constantly mixes up the tiles in Carcassonne while we play. It's distracting sometimes, but I'd never ask him to stop - I probably shake the table with my leg, or hum Christmas carols or something equally annoying.

 

In casual play, I'd just leave it. If someone else had a problem with it, they can bring it up.

 

In tournament play, there's a ton of opportunity for cheating or accidentally gaining information and no, that's absolutely not ok. Anything to do with the game, that isn't in the rules, (or hasn't been ruled by the TO), is right out.

[Jeebus]

well because of how easy false shuffles are, i'd definitely call them out on it in tournament play. Casual maybe not so much. 

[hypoking]

Where does he find the time? If he's shuffling cards he's not flipping them, or moving models around come to think of it. Can't help thinking this would fall under the stalling/ delay of game header.

 

Edit: Not that I'm stringent about it myself but cutting is also mandatory apparently. So there's that.

[Willy]

To answer some of the questions, I think it is a nervous habit, or something to do with his hands. Sounds like the consensus is that it veers severely towards bad form in casual play, and is right out in Tournament play. I will bring that up with him next time we play ... Thanks everyone!

[Hateful Darkblack]

That sounds really annoying.

 

If there are abilities that stack an opponent's deck (like Malifaux Raptor) that have recently been used then it's CERTAINLY cheating.

 

Theoretically, the rest of the time it's randomized and shuffling will have no effect.

 

Occasionally I'll ask to shuffle mid-turn it looks like I didn't shuffle sufficiently somehow (new deck, for instance) or if we agree to bury a card that was misplayed.

 

Just shuffling as a nervous habit seems irritating. And potentially super uncool if someone is using deck-stacking abilities.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Yep, it's pretty obviously just a nervous habit, but can be counterproductive.

 

And yeah, the only time I shuffle out of sequence is if something's been drawn where it shouldn't have and would affect a decision before the extra card was re-drawn.

[Fetid Strumpet]

The rules are a permissive rules set. They tell you what you are able to do, not what you can't. The rules don't allow for constant reshuffling of your deck.

Now if its just a nervous or comforting habit, which we all have, I'd bring a different deck of cards, totally different from his play deck, and offer them to the player to shuffle instead. Unless they are superstitious, or are trying to manipulate the deck for advantage, it shouldn't matter what deck they shuffle if they feel they need to.

[wopr1986]

The rules are a permissive rules set. They tell you what you are able to do, not what you can't. The rules don't allow for constant reshuffling of your deck.

Now if its just a nervous or comforting habit, which we all have, I'd bring a different deck of cards, totally different from his play deck, and offer them to the player to shuffle instead. Unless they are superstitious, or are trying to manipulate the deck for advantage, it shouldn't matter what deck they shuffle if they feel they need to.

Exactly what I was thinking takes any possible ambiguity out of the situation.