Why beckoners?

[Frisch]

Every once in a while a thread pops up asking 'where do I go from here using master XX' or 'which Y models do you consider vital to your plans' - and in almost 100% of the threads the beckoners receive a lot of love.

 

I will gladly admit that I feel they are a bit overrated. A price tag of 7 stones should always cause you to re-think if the model is truly worth bringing, and everytime I re-evaluate the beckoner I see nothing but a fragile little lady.

Yes, she has lure - which both speeds up her friends and messes with the opponents plans. This ability is extremely potent, as anyone facing Rotten Belles will soon learn. However the Belles are cheaper (iirc) and - most importantly - has +2 Ca. These +2 Ca make the difference between 'reliable' and 'I hope my opponent let this one through'. I find that the beckoners are much more card intensive and at the same time easier to defend against.

 

Besides lure, the beckoners only function is to hand out drugs (brilliance) which is hardly useful for anyone but Mr Lynch and his friends.

True, the beckoner herself does interact with the brilliance mechanic by, for example, preventing enemies from interacting if close to her, preventing enemies from losing the brilliance characteristic or making it harder for them to hit her. However, all these skills require the beckoner to be close to the enemy - a situation that will quickly result in her being dead.

What I see is a fragile, expensive and unreliable lure with a minor potential for extra features in a very specific crew.

 

I am aware that comparing two models across factions (as I did with the Belles above) is not always sensible, but I believe that for a dedicated lure model, it makes more sense.

So please, could anyone explain to me why they feel the 7 stones are well spent on beckoners? I want to learn to use these thematically cool miniatures.
Why do you bring them?
Are they worth their stone cost, or are you simply in love with them (and their drugs)?

[Dirial]

Recently, Beckoners have been discussed HERE.

 

I have to say, I am not a Neverborn player, but I hate playing against them. They have Lure at a good Ca value (6 isn't bad), they can deny a model their interact from 12", they have a shooting attack (which is rare in Neverborn), they are nor easy to kill. For 7 SS they bring a lot of utility which is exactly what I wound want from a 7 SS model.

[asrian]

If I need a Lure I typically just go with Lilitu. She's the same cost, +1CA on her Lure, has a 4" melee range, and has a paralyze trigger. Overall it works out better for me, especially as a Mimic target for my Doppleganger.

[Mister Shine]

Beckoners are minions though, so they get buffed by the minion specific bonuses. Additionally, they can provide ranged support directly into combat, which is always fun for a melee centric faction like NB.

 

And Ca6 is not unreliable

[Lucidicide]

I often feel like people have strange ideas about what a good stat is. A good stat is anything that is 1 above average defense. Average Wp is 5, so a Ca 6 is good. Ca 7 is amazing. Ca 8 is WTF?!?!

 

Keep in mind that when attacking, attacker wins the ties. This means that, in sheer numbers, a Beckoner beats most models even if the card value is one lower. That is seriously good.

 

It's the reason Belles are considered so powerful -- they have a swing of 3, which is just... insane.

[Frisch]

Thank you all for your quick replies.

I tried searching the forums, but apparently my search-fu skill is rather low. I am sorry about that.

Aaron: You raise an interesting point about what a 'good' statistic is. I agree that having the upper hand in duels, which even beckoners do, is a good thing. However I still do not believe Ca6 is 'good'. It might be better than I expect, but I have never had it working for me.

Mister Shine: I believe that 'unreliable' is a matter of preference. Having to flip a 6 (any suit) for lure to go off before even considering beating your opponents flip means that 5 cards in each suit is useless as top-decking. This makes for 21 cards (including the black joker) of a 54 cards deck, which is 38% chance of immediate failure (or cheating) or the other way around: 62% chance of success before considering the opposed duel involved. I do not regard this as reliable. It is acceptable, but I do not like those odds.
Returning to Aarons point, I agree that Belles being at +3 against most opponents in the opposed duel is good, but in my world it is their 76% chance of getting to that duel in the first place (without having to cheat up front) that makes them crazy.

 

Dirial: You are right. I was sure the interaction denial was a 6" aura on brilliant models. Had to read the card twice to realize my mistake. This makes the fine ladies much more interesting for some schemes.

 

 

I will give the other thread a proper read through. Hopefully there will be some pointers that will make the girls useful on the battlefield - even in my hands.

[Fetid Strumpet]

I don't understand what you mean by "needing to get to the duel".

The sequence of conducting the duel remains exactly the same regardless of whether there is a TN on the action. The only thing a TN does is that when you are definitively assigning a winner you need to do a final check to make sure you reached the TN.

If you flip an a low number under the required TN, the opponent still makes their defensive flip right then, and if their total is under or equal to yours they still have to determine if they cheat right then, regardless of whether you at that moment have reached your TN or not.

It is totally true that top decking you have a high potential failure rate, but your top deck success is over 50% at least.

Beckoners are also exceptionally mobile as they auto trigger not that kind of girl with their lure. So every successful cast lets them push 4" in any direction. That's one of my favorite abilities in them.

[rubbe]

Beckoners are also exceptionally mobile as they auto trigger not that kind of girl with their lure. So every successful cast lets them push 4" in any direction. That's one of my favorite abilities in them.

 

this one

in my opinion and playstyle, a beckoner is always a must (2 with lynch, unless playin collodi), having a model, or two, making two lure each and also advancing up to 8" in the first turn is invaluable in a game where the player who control the centerline is at half way for a win.

 

but it's personal opinion, and i think malifaux is a game where personal playstyle and opinion (and aestetic) is worth 110%

[DeleteAccount]

Why are people not mentioning one of their greatest perks? The not that kind of girl trigger on her Lure is HUGE, it makes her a fantastic objective grabber that either keeps your crew moving or screws with enemy positioning.

 

Also, 6 Ca is good, no matter how you slice it, it's another thing that you either cast it on things at a higher weight class than you have any business targeting or simply have bad luck. Anyway, thanks to the not that kind of girl trigger, I find her more useful luring her own models and then luring enemies when you need it, not just for the hell of it since she can keep getting into the right angles of where you want to move your models, greatly speeding them up. Also, being able to blast into melee while focusing can get you a few kills and free up other models to do more relevant things.

[Frisch]

I am definately going to try them out again, but one thing I want to thank you guys for:
pointing out that I have been playing the game wrong!

I was sure, that if I did not meet a TN of a skill, I had to cheat it immediately. It makes a *huge* difference, if the opponent might have to cheat first.

Thank you for setting me straight in that regard.

I am still not 100% convinced of the girls' awesomeness, but I want to try them out now

Again: Thanks.

[Terrible_Knowledge]

The other reason to take beckoners is also to flood the board with lure casts. 2 beckoned and lilitu and lillith can lure 9 times. Not to mention luring your own models to get into better positions is amazing esp considering neverborn is usually super fast to begin with. I prob wouldn't play that much luring ability. For lynch I default to two beckoned as a brilliance output. And first turn ill use them to catapult themselves and someone else on my team. For other crews I wouldn't play more than 1 most of the time. But for a lillith gaze list I could see it working. Imagine turf war and you can cast lure 9 times a turn. You could literally deny models from being in turf war. Lure also can contest models in reconnoiter as well.

[Kadeton]

I'm looking forward to them specifically with Lucius - being Minions and Mimics, as well as synergising with Illuminated (the Faction's best beater Minions) makes them a very attractive choice.

[Therril_83]

Don't forget that as both of their attacks are Wp-based, they trigger Misery from Pandora and/or Sorrows, aswell as Smell Fear from Teddy. 

[Bodiless]

I really only use them with Lynch, and mostly I am using them to tag something with Brilliance for an Illuminated to murder (my Lynch game is not exactly subtle). I tend to only run one, but that one is probably my most frequent doppelganger mimic target. With the right tome in hand you can get 5 lures out of the two of them, or 4 lures and a brilliance tag. Whatever you dragged across the board usually dies at that point. 

[4thstringer]

I think the ability of a minion to shoot into engagement effectively cannot be understated.  It has a psychological effect that you otherwise don't see.

[Sevorin]

Personally, I would prefer to bring a Illuminated for those 7 points. I get so much more out of them. Since I face shooting crews regularly, the Beckoner just doesn't last long at def 4.

[NeilH]

Wish I'd read these beckoner threads last week.

Played against ressers a couple of days ago, turn 5, just my beckoner and a hanged to activate. Being a pretty new lynch and beckoner player I've only really used her for lure before so I double lure the hanged (pretty good going against terrifying and WP7). Except what's this? No engagement range.........woe is me. The hanged just walks off and drops the second breakthrough marker and turns a 9-8 victory for me into a 10-9 loss.

obviously if I'd read the card properly I would have just gone with the her brilliance attack and taken the tactical action and won the game.

Always learning the hard way.

[zFiend]

"except what's this? No engagement range."

Gave me a good laugh.

But yeah I do that kind of a stuff even now when playing new crews so not to worry, the lessons you learn the hard way are the most teaching.

[jonahmaul]

I was just about to post about being able to stop interact actions but NeilH is my regular opponent!  Having played against Pandora a lot the ability to shut down interactions is huge is so many stats and schemes.  Put Distract or Cursed Object on somebody then smash then put Briliance on them and keep the Beckoner in LOS and voila - no removing.  Same thing if Squatters is around.