Obvious tips that may not be so obvious

[Whut]

Sorry to post 3 threads in 2 days, hope this is okay!

So I kept hearing that one should always take the maximum 7ss in every game, and if you can't do that, then take 6 at least. And I took this advise at face value, but I never really knew what to do with them. Do I save them for damage prevention? Use them for triggers? Or for initiative? I didn't really know. I really wanted to use it for card draw, but I was hesitant because it didn't occur to me how useful that is and I thought it might be a waste compared to using it for triggers and such. And then yesterday in a thread someone mentioned that card draw is probably the best use for soul stones!

Someone more experienced might have thought that was obvious, but as a beginner I had no idea that the reason people max their ss is to draw more or better cards. To me it wasn't so obvious.

So for all the beginners out there, including me, I'd like to see if we can have people share advise that might seem to them as obvious, but might not be for a new player. As knowing these seemingly obvious things could be a great boon to someone that isn't used to the game yet.

Thanks!

[hypoking]

Soul stones aren't all that important. If your crew is particularly hand dependent or suit thirsty you may want the full compliment but you can get buy with cache + one or two with a lot of masters. I think a good rule of thumb is just to spend the damn things when you need/want to and not to over think it. I'll generally burn a stone when I have two or more cards < 4 at the start of the turn and see if I can't get anything worthwhile. Don't stone for init when the opponent has an eight or better.

[Whut]

Nice start! Thanks!

[AnythingBut]

I'm only new to the game myself but have found that you generally want to use them in a couple of key ways.

Firstly to swing am important duel but I will just point out you're much better off using them when defending in a duel as it gives the attacker a -flip to both attack and damage where as you only get a +flip on attack and NO bonus on damage when you burn a SS as the attacker.

Then there's to get a reflip for initiative. Obviously a risk as you do have a 50/50 flip again but in a key turn getting first activation can be the difference between a win and a loss. Other than that I've once or twice used them for a flip on the damage mitigation chat you get for burning a soul stoke but the first two options are where I spend them most.

[4thstringer]

I would suggest reading this-

 

http://joelfaux.blogspot.com/2014/05/the-five-dangerous-faults.html

 

It gave me a lot of insight into the game. 

 

Another good place to read for tips i- http://pullmyfinger.wikispaces.com/General+Malifaux+Tactics

Their article regarding focus and Defensive stance is nice too.

[Adran]

Soulstone use - the way I play

Drawing 2 extra cards - pretty big deal, looking at 8 cards and pickign the best 6 is a lot better. I normally will do this if my hand of 6 has 2 cards I'm happy to throw away (normally weak cards that I don't need the suit for an ability). Also useful if you really need a certain type of card for the turn. (looking for tomes for Marcus, or a mask for a leap for example)

 

Damage prevention - Can be good. Extra useful if you get to stop an after damaging trigger.

 

Initiative - only really useful if you've lost to a low card. I do this if I think going first is really going to help me, but as a general rule I try to play my previous turn as if I'm going to lose the next initiative

 

Suits in a duel - There are some abilities that are well worth garenteeing the suit for. If I'm doing one of these abilities and don't have the right suit in hand to get the TN, I'll add the suit to be sure. I personally don't do it very much to get a set trigger, unless I see the trigger as the real reasonm I'm doing that ability.

 

+ on Attacks. -I normally only do this to counter a negative so I will be able to cheat if needed.

 

+ on defence, - on damage - I almost never use this. I normally expect the opponent to already be on a negative to damage from the hit, so I'm not really expectign it to make much cahnge to the damage I face. and Normally I think I'm probably better to spend the stoneon Damage prevention. If I have no moderate or better cards in hand, Iand lots of stones, I might try this against somethign that has a much greater severedamage than weak.

[brdparker]

+ on defence, - on damage - I almost never use this. I normally expect the opponent to already be on a negative to damage from the hit, so I'm not really expectign it to make much cahnge to the damage I face. and Normally I think I'm probably better to spend the stoneon Damage prevention. If I have no moderate or better cards in hand, Iand lots of stones, I might try this against somethign that has a much greater severedamage than weak.

 

Never used this before myself, but reading this thread reminded me about the - to damage as well. I could see myself using it with Ironsides, as she wants to be hit for low damage. With a tome trigger, she'll do a fair bit more damage back to you. And the + to Df will give her a better chance of getting that tome. Come to think of it, most masters with a Df/Wp trigger would benefit from it. It's a toss up between SS'ing a suit and cheating high or simply SS'ing the +, but it might depend on the situation.

[Mister Shine]

Well, not SS related but I think everyone should give this a read:

 

http://pullmyfinger.wikispaces.com/Focus%26Defensive

[Parker Barrows]

I'm only new to the game myself but have found that you generally want to use them in a couple of key ways.

Firstly to swing am important duel but I will just point out you're much better off using them when defending in a duel as it gives the attacker a -flip to both attack and damage where as you only get a +flip on attack and NO bonus on damage when you burn a SS as the attacker.

Then there's to get a reflip for initiative. Obviously a risk as you do have a 50/50 flip again but in a key turn getting first activation can be the difference between a win and a loss. Other than that I've once or twice used them for a flip on the damage mitigation chat you get for burning a soul stoke but the first two options are where I spend them most.

 

Actually, it only gives the Attacker a  to Damage Flips. Their Attack Flip is unaffected.

[AnythingBut]

Actually, it only gives the Attacker a to Damage Flips. Their Attack Flip is unaffected.

Yeah I got myself muddled but it gives you a + to defence and a - to their damage. Still two benefits opposed to just a + to attack if you use it when attacking. That's what I was getting at.

[EntrepeNinja]

I would say that the way you use soulstones is gonna vary on a master by master basis. For instance-

 

C. Hoffman-

Because he's got a lot of defensive tricks built in, and rarely needs the suit to make a spell go off, I very rarely take a full complement. When I do use the soulstones are for card draw, initiative, or the occasional trigger if I want take new position to go off.

 

Doug McMourning-

He doesn't need a ton of triggers- one of the ones he'll like occasionally is the mask for "this one's ready" on his rancid transplant ability, so I may burn one there. But he's also usually right up in the action, so he'll probably take one or two if he gets to ~25% health to stay alive until his next violent assault can bring him back a bit.

 

Viktorias-

With two models that are important that only have 7 health and variable defense stats, I usually try and bring a full crop, and really only use them in two situations- one if I'm in just the PERFECT spot for a whirlwind, or to prevent damage. For reals- these girls just chew those soulstone candies up. 7/7 wounds, and take 2 damage? Prevent. 6/7 wounds take 3 damage? They die to a stiff breeze without them.

 

Nicodem- 

Or really, most summoners. If you've got a high card that's not a crow, you're gonna be glad you brought those extra soulstones. Drop it for a crow and cheat a 13 of masks, and you got yourself a hanged. 

 

So like I said, the way a soulstone is going to get used depends on your master, the way they interact with the world, and even strats and schemes. If Assassination is on the board and the enemy is making a big push on my master? I'll prevent a lot more. If I've got bodyguard taken and they're focused and attacking my hench? I may burn one to get them back to a negative flip. 

 

Keep playing- you'll figure it out.

 

ENinja

[Vorschlag]

As with everything in malifaux your soul stone use will depend on your schemes, your strategy and your crew.

 

Filling your hand as people have said is more important for trigger heavy crews where they need the suit for your set up, it can also be useful in a situation where you have drawn poorly.

 

Damage prevention is great especially when your trying to keep a piece around that is vital to what you are trying to accomplish, the same applies to using the stone for duels when defending.

 

I rarely use stones for attacking flips but this will depend on your crew and how badly you need to get rid of something.

 

Burning for suits, I hate doing this but sometimes you just NEED an ability to go off so this shouldn't be underestimated.

 

Initiative, again schemes and strategy dependent, how badly do you need it....and the number of times it backfires....

 

As for the number of soulstones, well again this comes down to your crew and possibly your opponents crew, I often run only 3-4 stones spare, if however you have a number of henchmen this may not work for you as they are all greedy soul stone dependent addicts.

 

You'll find your own style of play eventually and that will determine how and when you use soulstones, each plaqyer in my group has a different attitude towards them, so I think it comes down to your own set of tactics and crew.

 

Which crew/crews are you playing with/against? 

[EntrepeNinja]

 

Burning for suits, I hate doing this but sometimes you just NEED an ability to go off so this shouldn't be underestimated.

 

 

And then when you do burn the stone for the suit you flip it on the draw! Lol, But if you hadn't.... Schrodinger's Summon.

 

 

Initiative, again schemes and strategy dependent, how badly do you need it....and the number of times it backfires....

 

Or you flip the red joker on your reflip. Yay, you won initiative! Boo... the red joker isn't live anymore....

 

Eninja

[Whut]

Just fyi, the advise doesn't have to only be about using SS, you can give advise about anything.

For example, a really simple one: Nurses are very good in combination with Flesh Constructs. Not only can they paralyze enemies to set up for a devour, but they can also heal a flesh construct to maximum and then accomplice the FC to get rid of the paralysis. The FC loses its activation, but gains back up to 12 wounds and keeps it's melee range without your opponent being able to react.

[Mike3838]

Need to ditch a card from your hand to power an ability?

Don't necessarily ditch the 1 or 2 from your hand. Any card you discard will be shuffled back into your deck for the next turn. Maybe think about discarding the 6, 7 or 8 to power your ability (assuming you don't think you'll need them this turn). Then the 1 and the 2 can be dropped at the end of the turn and they're out of the cycle for a longer period.

[EnternalVoid]

Need to ditch a card from your hand to power an ability?

Don't necessarily ditch the 1 or 2 from your hand. Any card you discard will be shuffled back into your deck for the next turn. Maybe think about discarding the 6, 7 or 8 to power your ability (assuming you don't think you'll need them this turn). Then the 1 and the 2 can be dropped at the end of the turn and they're out of the cycle for a longer period.

 

the nice thing about this too is that your opponent is seeing you discarding low mid range card rather than the lowest one, making him more leery what the other 2-3 cards in your hand might be.  He will of course know when you discard for a new hand but then you will have a new hand.

[Parker Barrows]

And then when you do burn the stone for the suit you flip it on the draw! Lol, But if you hadn't.... Schrodinger's Summon.

 

 

 

 

Or you flip the red joker on your reflip. Yay, you won initiative! Boo... the red joker isn't live anymore....

 

Eninja

 

Or worse. I flipped an Ace. My opponent flipped a 2. I spend a Soulstone and flip a Black Joker. Not what McMourning wanted to see when standing next to Lady J. 

[Adran]

Or worse. I flipped an Ace. My opponent flipped a 2. I spend a Soulstone and flip a Black Joker. Not what McMourning wanted to see when standing next to Lady J. 

 

It would have been worse if you hadn't spent the soulstone for initiative. McMornings first Df being Black Joker would have really hurt!

 

Now back on topic

 

You only have a hand of 6 cards a turn. On average half of them should be below avarage, so not likely to be used for cheating.

That means you've probably only got 2 or 3 cards that are really worth cheating in. Use them carefully. Think about what is really going to matter to you this turn.

they might attack your master, but if they can't kill them on that hit, is it worth cheating to make them miss? It may be better off to allow one of your weaker models to disengage, and then interact (for example).

It may be worth playing a turn when you don't cheat anything, but note what duels you thought about cheating. And then look back at it at the end of the turn. which ones did you really want to cheat on in hindsight?

 

 

 

You don't win the game by having the most models left alive at the end of the game. Models wounds are also a resource. be preparded to spend them. Your model on 1 wound is just as capable of killing an enemy, or dropping a scheme marker as it ws when it had 12 wounds (Sabretooth Cerberus, Rogue necromancy and Hoarcat prides excepted). 

[zFiend]

Or worse. I flipped an Ace. My opponent flipped a 2. I spend a Soulstone and flip a Black Joker. Not what McMourning wanted to see when standing next to Lady J. 

 

This happened to me as well, except with Lynch, 2 Illuminated's and a Beckoner next to the master Vik with Slow and Brilliance. I flipped 1, he flipped 2, I stoned it, Black Joker. After the first activation Lynch with 2 wounds.

[PeregrineFalcon]

Joe wrote a nice blog back in Sept. about this. Worth a read...

 

http://cheatedfatesblogging.wordpress.com/2013/09/17/the-soul-stone-of-the-game/

[Sevorin]

 Great blog by Joel.