Math Mathonwy

I think that the idea that Reckless should be errataed is a bit ludicrous. They've had it from the very start of the edition and everything in Gremlins has been balanced with the idea that they have it. I mean, this isn't a minor thing like Papa-in-the-Box or Rat Engine or something - this is one of the defining abilities of an entire Faction! Not something that slipped through the cracks during playtesting.

The Sow doesn't have Eat Your Fill - she has the Eat Anything Trigger on her Furious Mauling which really, really isn't the same. Also, you might be the first person in the history of the game to complain about The Sow (Shot in the Rear is nasty with her but it's nasty with any big pig so I don't consider it a specific complaint about the Sow) Stuffed Piglets don't affect Hunting Party in any way (they sac from the explosion only if they they haven't been killed (and yes, it's a bit badly worded)). Unless you mean voluntary exploding but that doesn't seem all that annoying. I think that people who complain about Reckless because of Burt and Francois should complain about Burt and Francois and not about Reckless. Burt and Francois are some of the most broken models in the game. I also dislike the Lightning Bug's efficiency for healing Somer Summon fatigue but otherwise they are just really good, not borked, IMO.

I would like to note that I think that FFM being a suited Scheme is good for Zoraida as she is, arguably, the best equipped of the Neverborn Masters to deny that Scheme. Heck, she might very well be the best in the game at denying it.

Tier 1: Collodi, Lilith Tier 2: Dreamer, Zoraida, Pandora, Lynch, Titania Tier 3: Lucius Collodi is a powerhouse and Lilith is extremely versatile. Pandora is great but has some bad match-ups which drops her a tier, IMO. Errata dropped Dreamer to tier 2 and he also has some dangerous match-ups. Zoraida loses out to Collodi a bit, I feel, but the Doll keeps her relevant. Lynch is pretty great at what he does but he is squishy and somewhat limited. Titania is very good in certain Strat + Schemes combos but outside of those, less so. Finally, Lucius is tier 3 only because Collodi, Dreamer, and Zoraida all do the same thing and are better at doing it - Lucius isn't bad after the errata and maybe he should be there on tier 2 with the rest.

So just to make sure I understand this correctly and to draw it out of the realm of the hypothetical - I've read the Gremlins forum quite a bit. Quite a few people have expressed various hopes and wishes on what they would like to get for Gremlins. One of the most common wishes has been an expansion of the Voodoo sub-theme of the Faction. Now we're getting the Gatreaux Bokor. Is this a bad thing? People asked for something and Wyrd gave that - did fans and/or Wyrd do wrong here, in your opinion?

So you're saying that asking for an LGBT character or two isn't a modest request when there's hundreds of characters in Malifaux? Who do you mean here? Me? Last I played Malifaux was today. I'm playing in a tournament this month. What do I need to do to prove my gaming credentials to you? Or are you talking about some imaginary people who will suddenly flock here if an LGBT character is released?

"I wish there was an LGBT character or two in Malifaux. And no, we don't want characters that are somehow "about" being LGBT, just characters that happen to be such as one facet of their multidimensional character." "ZOMG! Everybody panic! Malifaux will stop being a minis game and becomes a vessel for the gay agenda! Artists will be forced to write and draw gay erotica! Cats and dogs living together! Mass panic! Social Justice!" ...what is this I don't even Edit: OK, that was maybe needlessly pithy. But it seems that the request put forward has been very modest and yet the objections to it base their argument on some kind of an extremely slippery slope where the freedom of artistic expression is severely threatened and Malifaux stops being a game first and foremost(!). Which is to me a completely baffling response. Does someone here honestly think that Nathan will buckle under some imaginary pressure and introduce an eighth faction with the theme of celebrating gayness or something?

So you consider all fan opinions of character traits as horrid? No one is allowed to voice any preferences of critiques because an artist might take heed? I can't name one boring LGBT miniatures game character. Meaning one I would consider more boring than average, that is. Maybe you can?

I agree with the reasoning that you are targeting a model (even if it counts as a Corpse Marker) and need to test. Hadn't considered this before. Wouldn't this also mean that Sparks' Hostile Work Environment would stop Nico Summoning from Mindless Zombies? "Hostile Work Environment: Enemy models within 8 may not target models friendly to them with Actions."

So we can't express opinion on what we like and do not like? Because that is all anyone here can do. No one here is in a position to censor anyone (that I know of, at least - Nathan naturally excepted) so why the reaction? The above seems to suggest that criticizing art should be forbidden which is an entirely silly idea. The biggest thing that we can "threaten" Wyrd with is that we might stop buying their products but no one in this thread seems to be even hinting at that! And if they were, they very much should be allowed to. ...I'm honestly having a very difficult time understanding the counter arguments presented in this thread. *scratches head*

You say that like it's a proven fact. Guild Ball has, percentage-wise, more black people and more gay people than Malifaux. Women is probably about equal? Far fewer native Americans, Indians, and Asians. What does that mean? I've no idea! I mean, my point wasn't to make a mini-by-mini comparison or anything like that (and that would be very pointless all in all), just to note that I don't think that things are as clear-cut as people seem to posit. But I wish to stress that I really do think that Wyrd are good and progressive when it comes to stuff like this by minis company standards. It has been around for over eight years now and has well over 200 profiles/unique miniatures released for it. It is highly francophony-centric, though. But if the competition is between Game Workshop, Wyrd, Corvus Belli, and PP (and maybe somewhat randomly Steamforged Games as I think that they are an order of magnitude smaller than the other four - though note that this impression isn't based on any hard data), fair enough, I suppose. I understand the reasoning.

...and, let's face it, things getting a bit silly is one of the main reasons to play Gremlins!

Are they better than Infinity or Guild Ball or Eden (to name three)? I think that that is a bold claim to make. I mean, I do think that they might be but it seems that people are taking this as a simple fact.

Somer is the premier Gremlin Master when it comes to being good with various things. But also Wong likes everything you have so he's also a fair possibility. I might not go for Ulix but Ophelia should also be possible. Those would make for a pretty unorthodox Ophelia crew but she is pretty versatile.

Got to say that my opinion is 100% opposite. I thought it brave of Wyrd to change the name, not be intimidated by the angry hordes, some of whom suddenly found the old name the best thing Wyrd had every done (because evil feminists wanted to change it!*) but rather taking an analytical look and making the right decision. But even if you take the opposite view, your argument here is essentially a slippery slope one. That if Wyrd were to include an overt LGBT character that there would be a sizable risk that they would do it somehow in such a way as to make the story actively worse than if they didn't include such a character. I dunno, I have more faith in Wyrd than that, I've got to say! Being the most progressive is not a huge achievement, really, if we're considering the big minis games companies Not sure how to measure that very well, mind. I mean, Infinity, for example, has at least one trans character (whose being trans is not her defining trait, mind, but a really important part of her backstory) and have always been pretty great at being racially diverse yet they continue do stuff like the Tech Bee (which is just embarrassing!). EDIT: *Not referring to you here, naturally! (Just to make absolutely sure since this is a written medium - I have absolutely nothing against you and consider you a good contributor! Heck, even here, even though I'm disagreeing with you, I think that you are presenting your case thoughtfully)

First of all, thank you for your input and taking part in this conversation, Astrella. Much appreciated! And now, on what was quoted. I don't know whether it was a coincidence or not but one of the main points of contention leading to that debacle you mention was that there never was a situation where you had a box of three Minions with one being male and two being female. They were either all women (in case the Minion was defined by being a woman like Oiran or Belles or whatever) or they were all men or they were two men and one woman. Now there are several boxes with two women and one man in them (off the top of my head, Sanctioned Spellcasters, Wokou Raiders, Bandidos, Autumn Knights, Shieldbearers, and probably more that I'm just not remembering at the moment). So, whether that was due to feedback or just random chance, change can happen.

Not every aspect of every character "serves the story". If they did, we'd have awfully one dimensional characters. And what is "serving the story" anyway? The storyteller is telling the story. They can make it any way they want (well, in Wyrd's case there's the management of the story and then the writing and both parts have different freedoms). It's not as if the story is somehow a representation of history - it can go many ways and some of these are probably worse or better than others (Ulix and Lady Justice hooking up romantically might not be the best way forward) but most sensible conclusions are probably on pretty even keel in that some prefer one whilst others would've liked the other outcome a bit better but only a handful of people are truly disappointed in however things go. There's no "fact" here. Furthermore, riffing off of this point but not in direct answer to you, Four_N_Six anymore, I have to echo what Dogmantra said - why are people worried that a gay character would be one note? How many one note characters are there in Malifaux (and I mean characters who appear in stories, not ones with just a paragraph in the profiles section)? I can't name any. Which doesn't mean that there aren't any but they probably aren't very common.

You are, naturally, free to post in whatever way you want from the safety of your anonymity and the Internet. But we are a community and I would like to believe that, instead of the "pistols drawn at dawn" of the usual Internet, we could give each other the benefit of the doubt and maybe adjust our behaviour if someone politely requests it. I dunno - I've found that I enjoy this place a lot better when I try to be considerate of other people.

So there's Lilith, Von Schill (though he doesn't look like he used to look), Perdita(???), Toni, Misaki, Lenny(?!?), and a bearded and grey version of McMourning(?!?). ...why does only Toni look like herself (well, and Misaki because she's wearing a veil)? And why everyone else gets Masters (maybe) except Gremlins?

That's a very cool list! Scary, but very neat.

The Austringer errata was more of a sideways change - they are still extremely powerful models. Franc didn't change meaningfully (Burying him was a really bad idea most of the time) and he is still one of the (if not simply the) best Henchmen in the game let alone the Guild. So the only one that I think got meaningfully weaker was Papa Loco and even he is far from becoming anywhere close to "worthless". Burying him was a gimmick and if the model's whole worth hung on that gimmick then good riddance!

Some Malifaux minis can be a bit tricky to put together. I recommend getting a good plastic glue and being methodical. Also check out Gmorts' unboxings: http://gmortschaotica.blogspot.fi/2017/01/unboxing-malifaux-zipps-sky-pirates.html http://gmortschaotica.blogspot.fi/2015/09/unboxing-malifaux-wongs-explosive.html http://gmortschaotica.blogspot.fi/2016/05/unboxing-malifaux-m2e-mctavish.html

I would add that Anna Lovelace can be fun with Brewmaster due to her limiting the enemy's ability to move stuff away from the bubble and thus fixing one of the chief weaknesses of the bubble, IMO, and for being able to target Wp and being generally durable and good. Lazarus can be fun with Wong since Ooo Glowy makes autofiring grenades extra funny and Sparks can give Laz Fast.

Wong is a solid choice. He is a good all-rounder. And his box is pretty good. Macha Roja isn't quite cream of the crop but he isn't bad and has his niche. Lightning Bugs are amazing. And Wong's totem is fine. One weakness with the box is that if you put all the models in it to the table, you're going to run out of cards really quick. Mancha Roja is extremely card hungry and Lightning Bugs are as well. And Wong likes high cards, also. When expanding somewhere down the line, note that Wong likes, among other things, these things: Sammy LaCroix is a good Henchman who can hold Wong's Limited Upgrade Ooo Glowy so Wong can take Gremlin's Luck. She is versatile and not very card hungry. Burt. Everyone likes Burt. The ultimate Gremlin crutch. He is stellar. With Wong he makes a great recipient of the Magical Condition and can group enemies up. And kill them dead dead dead. Gracie is also very solid and the third in the original theme. She can haul Wong around so he can focus on blasting. Maybe even Focus on it, if you know what I mean. She is extremely durable as long as the opponent can't ignore Armor. Stuffed Piglets and Taxidermists. Stuffed Piglets make great targets to blast Wong's blasts off of. They are also really cheap activations and generally awesome. Taxidermists can make more of them. Taxidermists are also solid in melee. Quite squishy, though. Old Cranky. The other Gremlin crutch. Even comes with a crutch! Combos really well with Wong and Sammy and with everything else, really. Stupid good. There's nothing wrong with Wong's own totem but Cranky is just stupid good. Swinecursed turn into absolutely horrific killers with Wong. They are really, really scary. Squishy, though they heal well.

The real question is naturally whether you wouldn't have taken first place had you just played any other Gremlin Master